Thread: Graceful arms?

Hello all!

I've been working with the Amira's Bellydance 101 video I got from Netflix, and I've been working my way back into belly dance! I still have tons of work, but I feel like I can get it with lots more practice. The area I'm having problems with are my shoulders and arms. My background is in swimming, weightlifting, and martial arts, so graceful arms never really fit in!

What are some tips and tricks for practicing and mastering shoulder shimmies? Whenever I try, it usually turns into a boob shimmy. :( (D cup) My arms always look stiff, and tend to get out of position when I'm concentrating on other areas.

Thank you!

Rachel

Well, one thing I can tell you is that there is no such thing as a shoulder shimmy with no breast movement unless you have no breasts.

I was taught to drive shoulder shimmies from the spot between my shoulderblades. It does take time and practice; in my experience women who have done a lot of weights, etc, often have difficulty with shoulder shimmies in particular because you need to be able to relax the shoulders and chest.

Originally Posted by shimmy21

What are some tips and tricks for practicing and mastering shoulder shimmies? Whenever I try, it usually turns into a boob shimmy. :( (D cup)

Rachel, watch Egyptian, Lebanese, or Turkish dancers. Their boobs move when they do shoulder shimmies. It is supposed to happen. It is only certain American/European dancers that think otherwise.

Keeping your ribcage very lifted and your shoulders back will make this movement proud and refined; whereas caving in the chest and rounding the shoulders forward will make it look sleazy.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Well, one thing I can tell you is that there is no such thing as a shoulder shimmy with no breast movement unless you have no breasts.

I was taught to drive shoulder shimmies from the spot between my shoulder blades. It does take time and practice; in my experience women who have done a lot of weights, etc, often have difficulty with shoulder shimmies in particular because you need to be able to relax the shoulders and chest.

True to a point - however you can isolate the shoulders to create a true shoulder shimmy with less movement. The shoulders are capable of sliding forward and back without any torso twisting - which is what drives a more booby shimmy. A true shoulder shimmy is more difficult than a torso/bust shimmy. Each has their own place.

Originally Posted by ssipes

Rachel, watch Egyptian, Lebanese, or Turkish dancers. Their boobs move when they do shoulder shimmies. It is supposed to happen. It is only certain American/European dancers that think otherwise.

Well actually Aida Nour in orientale mode does a shoulder only shimmy with no twisting.

Thanks for the information! I sorta figured it would require duct tape to keep the girls from moving at all. :) I really just want more control when I do a shoulder shimmy. It feels like I'm doing a chest shimmy instead of a shoulder shimmy. I think I'm just twisting my ribcage instead of moving my shoulders. I have done a lot of weightlifting in the past, and I still do lift (lighter) weights every other day or so. Zumarrad, I think it is like you said and I have problems relaxing my shoulders. My left shoulder in particular feels tight when I try to do it. Also, I'm extremely double jointed, and when I push my shoulders forward, they pop into the other socket. It doesn't hurt, but it can't be good, and it makes a little sound and isn't smooth. Would increasing shoulder flexibility help that? Are there any drills I could do to practice relaxing my shoulders? Anything I try to do just feels like bad posture, and I don't know if that is right or not!

Thanks!

Rachel

I had a similar problem when I started shoulder shimmying. It felt VERY uncomfortable for my boobs, and I got a cramp in my ribs EVERY time.

I asked my teacher about the cramps and she said to just keep my chest lifted. That's very important. It didn't solve my problem though. It turned out to be rather simple, but I WISH my teachers could have told me from the beginning. It really is a SHOULDER shimmy. You have to isolate the movement in your shoulders, which sounds really obvious, but I was using my chest as well, (like you said; twisting the ribcage) which is why I needed a sports bra just to do it. When I concentrated on isolating the shoulders it fixed the problem. I can do it for ages without any painful cramps, and it minimises boob movement. You can't stop them moving a bit though!

If you want to work on your shoulders and arms, I'd recommend Rachel Brice's "Bellydance Arms & Posture" DVD. It contains many shoulder exercises. (When she introduces the DVD herself, she calls it "Shoulders and Arms", not "Arms and Posture".)

I teach a shoulder shimmy as a shoulder thrust, speeded up and made smaller. We usually do it slow, then mid-tempo, than as fast as they can go past mid tempo. From the very beginning, I do teach that you have to be pushing the shoulders forward and back during the shimmy, not twisting the entire top half of your body at the waist, in order for it to look right. The chest/ribcage moves, but only in reaction to what the shoulders are doing. With beginners, especially those who have limited body awareness, I find that this can be a difficult distinction for them to make sometimes. And yes, having a lifted carriage is very important, as having a caved in posture will make the shimmy look less refined and more like you're just shaking your boobs around.

One thing I try to remond student of is that a shoulder shimmy is still a shimmy, and it takes time to build up the speed and maintain it. We don't really expect that a beginning will be able to do a super fast shimmy on the bottom half and sustain it for several minutes right out of the gate, so I think the same should be said of the shoulder shimmy.

Thank you so much for all the information! I'm going to stretch my shoulders and upper back out more to try to loosen up my muscles. Hopefully that will help me isolate them for a true shoulder shimmy. I have lots of practice to do!

Thanks again!

Rachel

well, I'm going to buck what everybody else is saying :) and say that a shoulder shimmy, in my opinion, is ok coming from the spine (which feels like your whole rib cage moving). imagine holding a pencil between your palms, and then rubbing them a tiny bit - see how the pencil twists? that's what your spine will do. thinking about the shimmy coming from the back of your body and not the front (boobs, sternum) will give you a really nice movement.

another nice shimmy for us women-of-boobage (I'm a 32F, so believe me, I've put a LOT of thought and practice into my shoulder shimmies for ways of minimizing the boob reverb!) I learned from my friend who does samba: hold your hands in front of you about armpit height, with them open a bit so they're not right in front of you. then, you make the shimmy happen from your hands, by pushing them foward and back a little bit, alternating hands. does that make sense? mine almost draw little forward circles. the effect that gives me is the isolated shoulder movement the others describe above, with the breast movement nice and tidy in the middle of your chest. try it and see what you think.

as for graceful arms: for me and for my students, I see the best results when you have something "real" for your arms to do. if you give them a movement to accomplish, such as reaching up to the sun, opening them forward to embrace a friend, drawing them in to cuddle a cat, imaging scooping up a huge bundle of silk veils, walking through heavy velvet curtains and gently moving them aside... your movement will be more natural and graceful. also, concentrate on completing the movement - if your arm goes up, be sure it goes ALL the way up before you bring it back down. you can think: the positions your hands always want to be in is as far away from your shoulders as possible (whether it be up, out, forward or down). it's like a puff of air that starts in your shoulder needs to travel all the way out your fingers before your arm can bend again.

a final tip: consider having your neutral-out and neutral-up arm positions slightly in front of you rather than straight out to the sides or overhead (you should be able to see both hands in your peripheral vision). your shoulders won't have to work as hard, which will give you a more relaxed posture, and it's a very organic and natural look. :)

Also keep in mind that when you are performing you're wearing a hard cup performance bra, so you're breats will not be jiggling / moving / shimmying that much. (sort of as if you had duct tape on them :) If you practice your shoulder shimmies in a bikini for example, the effect will definitely be different. You may be frustrated for no reason at all.

Elisagamal- Thanks for the info! I'm going to move my arms in more like you suggested. Keeping them out to the sides is a strain for me, and I think that will help a lot. My shoulders tend to pop when I hold them to the sides at shoulder level because of being double jointed, and I think I usually end up using my back muscles to pull them back so they would stay put!

The visualization technique you mentioned sounds really interesting, and I'll work on it. It makes a lot of sense. :..g.:

Does anybody have any special stretches for the upper back and shoulders? I still feel really tight, and regular shoulder stretches don't touch that area because my joints are so flexible.

Thanks so much!

Rachel

I think what a lot of teachers-including myself!-mean is that the shimmy motivates from the shoulders (or upper back) NOT from the breast. The girls will go along for the ride, but if the chest is upright and open, then the breast movement becomes secondary.

I used to work in a strip club; believe me, I have seen boob shimmy. Usually accompanied with a look and face...I demonstrate for my beginning students with the caveat that if I ever see them doing it, I will pluck them from the stage and deliver a frightful slapping!

Kitty

Try facing a wall with your hands touching the wall lightly. Move one shoulder forward as the other goes back. Do this for a bit then step away from the wall and continue to move your shoulders. Also, watch your hands and if they begin to move more in front of you and you look like you're reaching, then you're twisting your torso rather then just moving the shoulders. And I definitely agree with kahaz that the boob movement is secondary.

Originally Posted by shimmy21

Elisagamal- Thanks for the info! I'm going to move my arms in more like you suggested. Keeping them out to the sides is a strain for me, and I think that will help a lot. My shoulders tend to pop when I hold them to the sides at shoulder level because of being double jointed, and I think I usually end up using my back muscles to pull them back so they would stay put!

The visualization technique you mentioned sounds really interesting, and I'll work on it. It makes a lot of sense. :..g.:

Does anybody have any special stretches for the upper back and shoulders? I still feel really tight, and regular shoulder stretches don't touch that area because my joints are so flexible.

Thanks so much!

Rachel

bent over almost double from the hip, wrap your arms around your calves, using your hand to provide resistance round your back up to the ceiling while exhaling, hold, inhale release

Re shoulder shimmies: I found this on-line lesson from Aziza Said to be really useful: Aziza Sa'id's Lessons On-Line - Shoulder Shimmy.
From memory, this does propose a rib-cage shimmy, so your boobs are going along for the ride. I really like this shimmy, as long as it's (a) delicate (not too big) and (b) the chest is lifted really high, to give the girls the support they need not to wobble around!

wow, that rocks jewel, thanks! I love Aziza Sa'id!

That right there, is my shoulder shimmy technique. It's true, it is more of a ribcage shimmy and hence bust shimmy.

I demonstrate for my beginning students with the caveat that if I ever see them doing it, I will pluck them from the stage and deliver a frightful slapping!

Now, if I were doing that kind of bust shimmy sans a bra I'd be administering a frightful slapping to myself. With no hands. Argh.