Thread: What every well rounded pro should know

I'm putting together a class curriculum for my future classes and I wanted to hear from all of you what list of topics you think every well rounded professional dancer should know.

Thanks for your ideas and help.

These are some of the things my teacher taught in her advanced/performer class, as well as some things that I would go out to see dancers and study carefully, observing what they chose to do.

* how to work with live musician(s), i.e. introducing yourself to them and requesting a set, how to communicate, handle mid-set change/surprise, and thank them.

* Different types of music for different types of audiences.

* tipping and audience interaction

* differences between elevated stage shows, restaurants, parties, weddings etc. You know, differences in how you dance, plan your show, choose your costume, etc.

Legal and ethical issues...

* How to find out what current rates are for different types of shows in your area
* How to negotiate your fees
* Why you shouldn't undercut
* Legal aspects of using music (it's illegal to give other people copies of your songs, music licensing issues with ASCAP/BMI and how they apply to our business, etc.)
* When it's okay to use other people's choreography (ok when you paid them to learn it from them, but not when you saw them do it on a performance video)
* When you need liability insurance

How to groom yourself. Professional-looking, stage-worthy hair and makeup.

* how to dance well in their chosen form
* appropriate styles, music, and behavior for different venues
* appropriate costuming
* performance skills
* negotiation skills
* contracts and legal issues

* and everything else mentioned by the other dancers so far :)

this one came up recently:

if you know your costume lost a lot of beads/sequins/coins/dangerous slippery items on the stage:
please tell the stage manager when you get off
so it can be swept before the next dancer goes on and breaks her neck slipping on what fell off your costume.
especially if there is plenty of time between dancers to sweep the stage.

How to professionally yet firmly handle uncomfortable situations like inappropriate audience/client behavior and problems collecting payment.

This might sound dum to some but:

- RYTHMES!!!

some "pros" cant name a rythme when they hear it!

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

this one came up recently:

if you know your costume lost a lot of beads/sequins/coins/dangerous slippery items on the stage:
please tell the stage manager when you get off
so it can be swept before the next dancer goes on and breaks her neck slipping on what fell off your costume.
especially if there is plenty of time between dancers to sweep the stage.

Good idea Reminds me of a recent performance where the dancer just before my duet had broken glass on the floor. Just as our music started someone whispered "be careful **** just broke a glass on the floor" A bit nerve wracking as it seems it had only been brushed over to the side of the floor they did not stop the show for a moment to sweep...c::

Zills.

What region different styles of music and dance comes from

The name of differnet instraments typically played

The name of different key musicians and singers both present and historical

A basic understanding of the history of Middle East Dance and it's various incarnations.

Apropriate costuming for each dance style

The names of the 'greats' and at least a loose understanding of their individual contrabutions to the dance

And everything above.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by salomestar

This might sound dum to some but:

- RYTHMES!!!

some "pros" cant name a rythme when they hear it!

Okay, I laughed when you said "dum" for talking about rhythms. ..l;,
(thinking dum dum tek.)

this is a great list so far and very helpful, but I'm also thinking of the things that might be considered a little more fundamental to the dance itself, in addition to many of the things listed about professionalism, etc. I know it varies per style, but say a well rounded professional dancer that will be working for American and mixed Arab crowds, maybe the occasional Belly Dance band they should know how to dance to or with:

-Oriental Entrance pieces
-Classic popular songs
-Om Koulsum (gets her own category even though she could fit in the above.)
-modern pop songs
-baladi taksim
-taksim
-Saidi/Assaya
-drum solo
-Veil
-Finger Cymbals
-sword
-zeffa/shamadan
-floor work
-Turkish 9
-Chifti/Rumba/Wahda Kebir, etc - slow songs
-Khaliji

etc...

What else would you put on this list. What do you really expect a professional dancer to know how to handle?

Sorry for the thread hijack, but these are things a lot of teachers don't tell you because they will only tell the dancers they are mentoring or who are in their troupes.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

* how to work with live musician(s), i.e. introducing yourself to them and requesting a set, how to communicate, handle mid-set change/surprise, and thank them.

How do you request a set? I'd like to know because that's my problem right there. That's why I am scared to dance to live music. If the name escapes you at that moment, do you write it down and hope the band knows how to play it?

ahh so skills? This is my skill guideline for different levels:
http://www.mahsati-janan.com/Article...Guidelines.pdf

Originally Posted by jasani

Sorry for the thread hijack, but these are things a lot of teachers don't tell you because they will only tell the dancers they are mentoring or who are in their troupes.



How do you request a set? I'd like to know because that's my problem right there. That's why I am scared to dance to live music. If the name escapes you at that moment, do you write it down and hope the band knows how to play it?

Have a list of songs you know and can dance to so the band has options.

But it's more that just dancing to a set piece. A good dancer will indicate to the band when to stop the melody so the dancer and lead drummer can improvise while the backing drummer holds the rhythm. Normally goes on for 2 to 4 bars before the melody starts up again and the dancer needs a good ear to know when is a good time to go into this "solo phrase".

If you want to learn it, normally it's teachers who performed during the 80s and earlier who know this when it was common to work with live music.

Originally Posted by salomestar

This might sound dum to some but:

- RYTHMES!!!

some "pros" cant name a rythme when they hear it!

There is a master instructor in Sydney who work extensively in the middle east for 10 years, even had her own band, who knows rhythms when she hears it but doesn't know the names.

Or at least that what she says because I have heard her quote names of rhythms and their timing signature.

Originally Posted by shems

I'm putting together a class curriculum for my future classes and I wanted to hear from all of you what list of topics you think every well rounded professional dancer should know.

Thanks for your ideas and help.

Know the lyrics of the song you are dancing to. Don't go choosing Lessa Faker, a sad love song, at a Wedding.

Originally Posted by shems

I'm putting together a class curriculum for my future classes and I wanted to hear from all of you what list of topics you think every well rounded professional dancer should know.

Thanks for your ideas and help.

Good posture. Don't lean backwards. Take a few Jazz and Ballet classes to learn good posture.

No suggestions, but this is a class I'd love to take! ..g.:

Originally Posted by mahsati

ahh so skills? This is my skill guideline for different levels:
http://www.mahsati-janan.com/Article...Guidelines.pdf

thanks, that's really quite interesting.

Originally Posted by shems

this is a great list so far and very helpful, but I'm also thinking of the things that might be considered a little more fundamental to the dance itself, in addition to many of the things listed about professionalism, etc. I know it varies per style, but say a well rounded professional dancer that will be working for American and mixed Arab crowds, maybe the occasional Belly Dance band they should know how to dance to or with:

-Oriental Entrance pieces
-Classic popular songs
-Om Koulsum (gets her own category even though she could fit in the above.)
-modern pop songs
-baladi taksim
-taksim
-Saidi/Assaya
-drum solo
-Veil
-Finger Cymbals
-sword
-zeffa/shamadan
-floor work
-Turkish 9
-Chifti/Rumba/Wahda Kebir, etc - slow songs
-Khaliji

etc...

What else would you put on this list. What do you really expect a professional dancer to know how to handle?

In addition to all the wonderful Bhuz suggestions as well your your list above, Shems I'd say "audience interaction and control" and the specialty of "how to herd cats and drunk and/or just really enthusiastic people" sometimes comes in handy.

Not sure if this may come under one of your above headings Shems, but 'dancing to vocal taqsim'... the mawaal, very common in the earlier shaabi music. While the 'rules' are similar to the instrumental taqsim, it can be intimidating for the uninitiated. I don't know many dancers that dance to vocal taqsim as readily as they do instrumental.

how about issues ralted to your body?
-how to correct and teach good posture
knowledge of the body, skeletal and muscular
-safley teaching students how to increase their strength and flexibility without injuring themselves


Lately I've been wondering about the 'a good teacher doens't have to be a great dancer' theory. We can agree that most teachers are not worldrenowned dancers, but if you take classes with a teacher that also is a great dancer it certainly helps. So I think it's not just about stuff you need to know, but also about stuff you need to do. If you know the rythms, use them on a regular base in class, work on pieces with various rythms.

It sounds like all the above things you can go through and check off your list so you can move on to the next, while it's more like you need to learn the ones you don't know and keep your knowledge up to date with the other subjects.

Originally Posted by jasani

How do you request a set? I'd like to know because that's my problem right there. That's why I am scared to dance to live music. If the name escapes you at that moment, do you write it down and hope the band knows how to play it?

Jasani - What I recommend is to, if possible, contact the band for a list of songs that they know. If the band is playing locally, go to one (or more) of their shows and hear their music and talk to them after the show. If there is music in their set that you like, ask them about it. Also, if they have recorded anything, buy it and listen to it, and choose the music that you like for your set.

If talking to them before hand or buying their music isn't possible, pick out some song choices before you go to the venue, don't wait until last minute to try to think of something. I usually write them down and at least be able to hum a bar or two.

Another thing I do is pick 3 popular/classic songs within each musical area and hope that they know at least one of my choices. This may be adjusted by the length of set you are doing. For instance, I'll pick 3 fast entrance songs, 3 slow songs for veil or tell them to play a taksim depending on my preference or the bands, and then I talk to the drummer and tell him about how long I want my drum solo, and any particular rhythms I may want used.

The point is is that you will need to discuss with the band or band leader your music choices before you dance. This is the most common way to dance to live music. Though I have heard of folks that dance to anything, but this is only a good idea for the more experienced dancer.

Don't be afraid to talk to them either. It will show that you are professional and respectful, to try to work with them. Because when performance time comes, you should be able to work together as a team, not as individual entities...

BTW- I didn't dance to live music for a long time... I was so scared of trying it, but once I did it a few times, it became my favorite means of performing. There's just so much innate energy that you just don't get from canned music...Go for it!

Originally Posted by jasani

Sorry for the thread hijack, but these are things a lot of teachers don't tell you because they will only tell the dancers they are mentoring or who are in their troupes.

How do you request a set? I'd like to know because that's my problem right there. That's why I am scared to dance to live music. If the name escapes you at that moment, do you write it down and hope the band knows how to play it?

My teacher taught us a lot of that in our class, and we get the chance to dance with live musicians twice a year and we're even having a musician coming to class next month with two instruments to practice live taqsims. So I guess I'm very very lucky. Both my teachers are actually like mentors to me, honestly. I feel I could ask them any of these questions and get an honest answer.

I am scared to dance to live music (well, not really, but a little) because every time I request a song, they play something completely different. Once I requested Sawwah - Ya Mustapha was played. Another time I asked for Arabic music and we picked out songs - specifically NOT any veil songs - I wasn't even holding a veil and they launched into Bir Demet Yasemen (which is Turkish, yes?).

But usually you can go up to the band before your set and request songs, usually popular songs - around here, that's stuff like Leila, Aziza, Siseler, Jemileh, Sagapo, Istemem Babajcim, stuff like that. Whenever I've tried to ask for anything more Egyptian, they don't know it. I know that there are bands that do - the Dina workshop had an amazing band from Montreal.

You can tell them that you want an entrance, veil, middle, chifte, drum, or whatever. I did find in my last experience that you should tell them if you want "exit music" after the drum solo ends, otherwise there could be an awkward moment where you don't know if they are going to keep playing or not. I'm sure you could tell them if you wanted a taqsim or not, how long of a drum solo, and all that. But I think it's good to be flexible with a band.

In a way, I'm scared to piss the band off because they really have all the power.

Originally Posted by jasani

How do you request a set? I'd like to know because that's my problem right there. That's why I am scared to dance to live music. If the name escapes you at that moment, do you write it down and hope the band knows how to play it?

Reminds me of a little while back:

me " I'd like Beeid Anak"
him " I don't know it, who is it?"
me "it's umm kuthum"
him " OK, I know all umm kuthum"
me "Byiiiid Anuk, Bead Anick"
him <looks puzzled> "do you have a CD with it?"
me "no"
me starts humming the tune lalalalalala lalala
him <recognition on face> oh Beeid Anak ! lalalal lalala finished humming the tune.
him <smiles> oh yes, Beeid Anak, yes I know that - we can't do it, sorry!

(I managed to pursuade him to do it in the end....!)


So learned the hard way - Bring a CD with it on, and a wee boom box, or your IPOD and some tiny speakers.

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

Reminds me of a little while back:

me " I'd like Beeid Anak"
him " I don't know it, who is it?"
me "it's umm kuthum"
him " OK, I know all umm kuthum"
me "Byiiiid Anuk, Bead Anick"
him <looks puzzled> "do you have a CD with it?"
me "no"
me starts humming the tune lalalalalala lalala
him <recognition on face> oh Beeid Anak ! lalalal lalala finished humming the tune.
him <smiles> oh yes, Beeid Anak, yes I know that - we can't do it, sorry!

(I managed to pursuade him to do it in the end....!)

Sorry, slightly OT, but OMG...was this an Arab guy? Cause I have this problem with every Arab person with whom I EVER try to speak Arabic, including my own BF of the last six years!!! I swear I am pronouncing the word or phrase PERFECTLY, and he still looks at me like I've just spoken to him in Klingon. I try every variation of the damn pronunciation I can think of, to no avail. Then, when he finally gets it, he says it EXACTLY THE WAY I SAID IT THE FIRST TIME! It makes me totally gun-shy to even TRY to say anything in Arabic.

Nisaa

Maybe I'm spoiled, here in Seattle. We have several very good bands here and lots of opportunity to dance to live music. The bands I've danced with have always done what I've asked...

Nepenthe- I think you have good reason to be apprehensive. I have heard horror stories, about what bands do ...Luckily, I've never had some of the experiences I've heard from other dancers. (Knock on wood)

It's important to research the band, if you can, because if they mainly play Turkish, they may not know Egyptian classics and vice versa.

Hi Shems,
I actually teach a 2 hour workshop on becoming a professional dancer, and things every dancer needs to know, it's a 7 page hand out, if you are interested I will email it to you. It's something I compiled after working in clubs for over 20 years, and seeing so many new dancers make mistakes just because nobody guided them. It's a great brush up course for seasoned professionals as well. I usually teach it as a lunch time lecture during my workshops around the US, the girls bring a brown bag lunch and I lecture while they eat and take notes etc. This is a great topic to bring up, so many professionals don't follow the rules like they should, or get lazy, and the new dancers watch the pro's for how to behave, dance etc.

wow, Aradia! I bet you have some good stories to tell too. Id love to hear what others have to say. We should systematically go through this thread and answer the questions and archive it on Bhuz.