Thread: Seeking tips on veil technique

I don't know why I am so belabored with my veil. I just don't seem to have a good relationship with it. I've started a new class and we will be performing with veils and I'm nervous. I've bought all good silk veils (almost all from Akai - so we know they're good!)but still, I have trouble. I am determined to get past this and forge a new and wonderful veil relationship! I would appreciate any thoughts, tips etc. Any particularly worthy veil dvds? Thank you so much for any input!

The best advice I've gotten on working with silk is to sloooooow waaaaay down.

Think of floating the silk on the air rather than pulling it through the air. Give it time to ripple and flow.

Also, any weakness in your arms in general will show up in your veilwork. Are your arms straight or nearly straight, hands far from your body? Arm movements coming from the upper back, shoulders held open, hands and forearms relaxed? If your arms tend to get tired or collapse inward (chicken wings, robbery-victim arms, etc) that will affect your veilwork tremendously. Practice really extending through the arms as you work with the veil.

Aziza's veil DVD from IAMED really changed my whole perspective on veil. I started to LOVE veil. I also bought the Katia "Smooth as Silk" veil DVD. It has a lot of material and a lot of it is very creative, but I confess I don't use the techniques in that as much as in Aziza's veil dvd.

I see Aziza's veil DVD as a must and the other one as a nice-to-have, maybe something to get when you want to spice up your already good veil routine.

[QUOTE=Lauren_;117488]The best advice I've gotten on working with silk is to sloooooow waaaaay down.

Think of floating the silk on the air rather than pulling it through the air. Give it time to ripple and flow.
QUOTE]

Exactly. I love silk veils because they're like water in the air -- their flowing movement seems almost miraculous sometimes.

But some people find them a bit off-putting. Do you also work with non-silks? You might find it useful to experiment by practicing the movements you want to learn/improve with veils of various kinds of fabric, and observe how they differ. You'll find that each has a different feel in the hand and movement in the air, and that might help you figure out the best way to move with silks.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

The best advice I've gotten on working with silk is to sloooooow waaaaay down.

Think of floating the silk on the air rather than pulling it through the air. Give it time to ripple and flow.

+1

Check out this article:
So You Want to be a Veil Dancer, Huh?

Silk for veils has become much more popular in recent years and, as Lauren said, it takes a whole different approach. It floats so beautifully that it calls for very gentle tossing and throwing movements. There are no rules about which fabrics you must use for veil, though. Try some nylon chiffon. It floats well, too, but is much heavier than silk, allowing you to add some faster movements into the mix. You may find one or the other type of fabric suits your style more.

I've learned to love veils, but I remember I when used to call the veil part of dance class "Fighting With Fabric." I thought I would never get it. Now my newest veil is 55" wide and over 3-1/2 yards long and I love it.

My teacher Alia Thabit has said that the veil is "a beautiful element of chaos" in the dance. It helped me a lot to remember that. If you get attached to the idea that you're going to be in complete control of that thing all the time, you're putting yourself in danger of getting in a pickle. You have to accept that the veil may do things you did not intend, and cooperate with it. With my really huge veil I've been using lately, I actually think of the veil as being "in charge" and myself as the "servant of the veil."

Now if you're doing a synchronized veil choreography with others, that's another matter. Practice, practice, practice . . . and if practice fails - laugh and the world laughs with you!
Rosette

Hi Barb! A couple of thoughts...

Altlhough I think silk veils are beautiful, I'm not so sure they're the ideal choice for people who have never worked with a veil before. Silk is a little fussy with respect to how it's handled, as others have pointed out on this thread.

There are SOME veil techniques that silk is not so well suited for. I don't know what types of moves your teacher uses in class, but it's possible that she's choosing ones that are not so well suited to silk veils. You might want to consider trying a chiffon or double georgette veil and see if it's any easier. Silkessence is a lining fabric that's nice for veils, too. Ask your teacher what she uses.

Don't feel bad if you have bloopers when you're new to working with a veil or any other prop. It takes time to get used to handling the thing, learning how it behaves, and feeling comfortable with it. Give yourself permission to make mistakes, and be kind to yourself when it doesn't work as desired!

I have adopted Sedonia's language regarding veils in teaching my students. Veils are cats. (Zils are dogs btw.) Just try to get a cat to do what *you* want it to do (especially against its own will). It won't cooperate. Same thing with a veil (especially the silk ones). Learn its temperment. Work *with* it, not against its natural tendency. If you try to force it, disaster will follow. If you coerce it, most times it will delight to work *with* you.

I wholeheartedly agree with Lauren. If you don't have good (excellent preferably) arm *and* upper body extension, your veil will take every opportunity to grab on to you when you least wish. There must always be "air" between you and your veil while it is moving. There may be exceptions to that "rule", but I've always found it an excellent rule to live by when working with a veil.

Another thing with silk veils that Sedonia and I have found, is that the weight of the silk can make a *huge* difference in its cooperation. For us we've found that the really light weight silk veils are extremely problematic to work with (which would fit with Lauren's suggestion to "float it on air").

Here's hoping you come to peace with your veil(s) so that you may experience many many happy hours of dancing together. I *love* playing/ dancing with my veils. Sometimes so much that I get totally wrapped up in them (attention-wise not physically)...l;,

Hi There-
just my few thots - agree with everything said before in this thread - ever tried organza veils - they don't cling the way silk does if it touches you (except on velvet and everything sticks to that!) they float really well as they are so light - good if you need to works on upper body strength, same rules - let it breath! you can get lots of effects that are not possible with chiffon (and vice-versa) Have Fun playing!

you might also try practicing with a weighted veil
[chiffon 3 yard rectangle with a tassel in each corner for weight]
this helps give a good feel of where all the parts of the fabric are at all times b/c its easier to "feel".

also, try to keep your reach fully extended to the outer limits of the shapes and patterns you are making. if you fully extend and complete all your movements, your veil will follow.

ita that the super-delicate silk veils are a whole different animal and require a less aggressive touch. they need time in each movement to catch "loft" of air under them. working with these lovelies, i keep in mind how birds float on air currents. your veil will to the same and only needs the lightest touch.

last thought: my grandpa calls veil dancing "flying with scarfs"
that might be a helpful thought b/c its movement with the veil...arm movement is primary, the veil follows secondarily...imo

Oh you ladies (and Zorba!) are the best! Gosh, I am going to read and reread your advice! The truth (emarrassingly enough) is that I'm not really new to veil, just never did get the hang of it like others - I think that maybe I haven't been treating it like the cat that it is or maybe the beautiful element of chaos! LOL! How wonderful your descriptions all are!

I am going to slow way down and really work on this. It is a group choreography, so, yes, I think it's a matter or practice, practice, practice! I am going to tame the veil (well as much as one would tame a tiger!)Thank you so much for your thoughts and advice.

Nepenthe - I did buy Aziza's dvd, unfortunately I lent it to someone (after just previewing it) who just disappeared. LOL! Really. I haven't seen or heard from her since. Maybe I should buy another copy.

I also tell people that veil work can be like dancing with your lover. either as an extension where it wraps around you and flows beautifully, embracing you. Or it can be a tango, where it is a fight for supremecy with lightening fast changes and a "fight" for dominance!

Veil can be fun and different weights can be used for many different feelings. If you teacher doesn't teach it, find a good DVD (shira has a listing on her website complete withreviews) and go from the.

{{{HUGS}}}

Along with all of the excellent advice here, I'd like to add that you'll get more out of your silk veil if you have good arm position and float it, but also use the wrist flick to flip, or change direction of the veil. Many of my students try to use elbows and that causes the veil to resemble laundry thrown over a fence or something - and often ends up stuck on thier face, not what they had planned. So float it and flick it :)

It might be really helpful to ask if your teacher can watch you doing any moves that are currently causing you grief (you know, that one where the veil keeps on ending up wrapped on your head, or under your foot!). She may be able to spot why it's happening - a bent elbow, too much of a flick, holding it an inch too far one way. Often just a slight adjustment will make a big difference to the way the veil moves, and it's really hard to see for yourself what's going on, even in front of a mirror, because you're moving around so much.

Hmmm, a veil is a cat. Oh dear, I don't understand cats at all.

But why are zills dogs? Because they bark...or bite???

Some very good thoughts coming out of this thread! 3 comments:

1) Someone mentioned Organza. Organza is the best kept secret in veil fabrics. You might have to beat it up a bit in the washing machine to get it to drape well and be more flexible, but I *love* Organza. Its not as floaty as silk (which is my first love), but it is far more floaty than you'd expect and it doesn't have the brittleness in handling that silk does.

2) The folks talking about slowing down and de-powering silk are absolutely correct. Silk can't take much power and still look good, see "fighting with fabric" someone posted above!

3) Veils as cats huh? I really like that!

I don't think anyone mentioned Sarah Skinner's new veil DVD. I haven't seen it, yet, and don't know if there are any full reviews out there, but there are positive mentions of it here: http://www.bhuz.com/forum/rest-belly...t-arrived.html
and here:
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/product-ne...h-skinner.html

I just got Sarah's new video a few days ago and I love it almost as much as Azia's.
Very inspiring.