Thread: Improvisation Toolkit vs Bahia's Combinography

I want to get one of these videos, but I can't afford both. Does anyone own both? Can you tell me if they over lap in anyway? Also which one is more for advanced dancers. I'm looking for an advanced video to help me with choreography and improve my improve. Do you think it would be ok to ask Michelle since she has seen both? or would that be out of line?

I can't answer your question because I don't have either. However, I don't think it's out of line to ask Michelle (they are both Cheeky Girls products...right?). If so, just ask which she recommends for an advanced dancer with a limited budget.

Uhm.. Bahaia's is by Cheeky Girls, Nadira Jamal's is her own production.. so it will be kind of an interest conflict for them to compare their respective products :)

Why don't you go to Mala's blog:
malabhargava.com

She has both, and I picture you can ask her to compare the two. Just comment on one of the blog entries with the question!

Originally Posted by toria_dances

I want to get one of these videos, but I can't afford both. Does anyone own both? Can you tell me if they over lap in anyway? Also which one is more for advanced dancers. I'm looking for an advanced video to help me with choreography and improve my improve. Do you think it would be ok to ask Michelle since she has seen both? or would that be out of line?

I was just watching Improvisational Toolkit and it is really really cool.

I think it's a DVD that requires you to work, actually do the exercises, including the parts that require sitting down and listening, writing exercises, etc. And I think it would be incredibly effective for building your own improvisation. I plan to work through it when I have a pen and paper handy and am not holding a baby.

I don't have Combino-graphy yet, but it looks like more of a dance-step DVD? I'd like to see a review of it. I was planning on buying it anyway.

Well Bahaia's has nothing with sitting down and writing anything.. it is kind of "dancey" in that she makes you pick your favorite move and vary it. I guess you could work well by yourself by not only doing these with your favorite moves, but with everything you can think of.

I think Nadira's Toolkit would be the most useful to a more advanced dancer. She is talking more about concepts than specific steps or combos. The exercises are a little deeper and work with the steps you already know.

Combinography would be more helpful to an intermediate dancer.

::more than somewhat:: » Combino-graphy: review and comparison with Improvisatin Toolkit

I don't have Bahaia's combinography one (yet...) but I do have the improvisation toolkit. It has some really great concepts, and I know it is a self produced video, but I had a really tough time with the poor sound quality. If stuff like that doesn't bother you, or you can ignore it, it is a great tool.

Originally Posted by dinavienna

Uhm.. Bahaia's is by Cheeky Girls, Nadira Jamal's is her own production.. so it will be kind of an interest conflict for them to compare their respective products

I don't think the poster is asking for the creators to compare products...she is asking for us, the general BD community, to give our views.

If you have an arangement with either of the producers, then it is a conflict for you to do so...but the general community shouldn't have one.

Originally Posted by ozma

I don't think the poster is asking for the creators to compare products...she is asking for us, the general BD community, to give our views.

If you have an arangement with either of the producers, then it is a conflict for you to do so...but the general community shouldn't have one.

I was referring to this suggestion by Basil1 directly above my post:
"I don't think it's out of line to ask Michelle" (to compare the 2 products).

She is the producer of one of the dvds, the other one is by her direct competitor producer. If I were the producer I would feel uncomfortable to answer this question myself, that is what I wanted to imply. (Basil1 thought both were Cheeky Girls Productions.)

Originally Posted by dinavienna

::more than somewhat:: » Combino-graphy: review and comparison with Improvisatin Toolkit

Thank you Mala for this review! just what I needed. From what I get from the review is the "tool kit" is solely about learning to improvise and since Bahaia's came second it has a lot of the good stuff from "tool kit" but it then expanse more on other topics. So I think I'll get Bahaia's.

Her reviews are amazingly comprehensive and to the point aren't they :)

Hey Guys

I just wanted to briefly chime into the discussion. I am very proud of Combin-ography, but I am also a big fan of Improvisational Toolkit. While there is some overlap (as there always is in two DVDs that tackle the same topic), there is plenty that is different and unique about each DVD. Even the topics that overlap are presented quite differently. I certainly wouldn't suggest getting one instead of the other. Rather, I think that they compliment each other quite well.

Improvisational Toolkit goes into much greater detail about some things that Combin-ography only touches on. And Combin-ography has a wider range of topics presented and a greater variety of exercises. Toolkit takes you through a very structured, step-by-step process to create your own choreography structure that is very thoughtful and well done. Combin-ography has sections about elements of creating dance (like body line, poses and weight transfer) that have exercises and combinations to go with those concepts.

So, it doesn't have to be Toolkit vs Combin-ography. They are both thoughtful, independently produced DVDs featuring fantastic teachers. If you like one you will probably like the other, but I can't imagine that having seen one would be reason enough not to seek out the other also.

Michelle

You make me curious about the Toolkit, which I do not possess so far! :)

I am glad I have Combinography, and working with it will be FUN. Much different from movement drilling dvds, and nothing you could learn in a regular class I think. I like Nadira's Taktaba episodes, too. Those are VERY different from what is on Combinography, they went into great detail of what makes a choreography you are building varied and interesting to watch. Her exercises on variation can enrich your improvisation, too.
The taktaba was a free podcast one year ago or so - it was put on dvd, too, I think, and is available on amazon I saw recently.

They are all very thoughtful, so I am sure her Toolkit is great. She has more in her series to come btw.

Also from something you said Michelle - given there has been so much room for dvds on the movements themselves, there is probably a lot more room than one can now imagine for improvisational improvement instruction. It takes some more imagination, and probably more thought in conceptualization, some challenges in presentation on the dvd format (which you and Bahaia did a great job with!), and tapping into dance (instruction) theory, but it should be a vast topic to explore for those qualified in these fields.

I would love to see more of this stuff :)

Honestly, as I'm going through Combinography, Bahaia is mentioning things I have unconsciously started to do in learning from the more skilled in my class, but didn't really realize it if that makes sense. In short, I wish dvds of this sort had been available before I started performing with our class troupe. As a student hobbyist, you are so busy learning a choreography that sometimes you wonder how on earth the teacher thinks you can do that stuff, polish doesn't even come into the picture. Polish, however, is important and Dvds like this that take an analytical approach to dancing really do help. When we learn our next number, I think I'll understand better why my teacher has done certain things. Combinography provides information that we don't have time to learn in class, so I've been happy with what I've viewed so far.

Toolkit is fun, I have it, and have enjoyed it.

I think just like anything else, though...the best way to learn to improv is just to do it...alot.

Originally Posted by Sonja2

Toolkit is fun, I have it, and have enjoyed it.

I think just like anything else, though...the best way to learn to improv is just to do it...alot.

Yes, plus...listen to your chosen style of music incessantly, and different songs, especially if you're doing Arabic style dancing. Learn the structure of the music, and you'll be better able to anticipate changes, you'll know how the musical phrasing works, and will be better able to intuit where accents are likely to fall, even in a piece that is new to you.

Listen, listen, listen! And watch video clips, especially of native dancers, even better if they're improv-ing.

Absorb as much as you can, like a sponge, and then think of your practice sessions/performances as squeezing your sponge to see what comes out.

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

Yes, plus...listen to your chosen style of music incessantly, and different songs, especially if you're doing Arabic style dancing. Learn the structure of the music, and you'll be better able to anticipate changes, you'll know how the musical phrasing works, and will be better able to intuit where accents are likely to fall, even in a piece that is new to you.

Listen, listen, listen! And watch video clips, especially of native dancers, even better if they're improv-ing.

Absorb as much as you can, like a sponge, and then think of your practice sessions/performances as squeezing your sponge to see what comes out.

I love to improv, I'm working on my chirography cause that's my weak point. But sometimes when i watch my Improv on video i wish it was more varied, and intricate. I seem to use simple movements when improving. So I think I just need to create "signature" moves

I haven't seen IT yet..but I LOVE Bahia's DVD's! She is one of the greatest teachers imho.... :) At least the price is low enough you could get both...