Thread: Leyla Najma Sensual Soft Moves for Family Friendly Restaurant Performing

Originally Posted by bellydancehusband

To close and bring this thread back to it's point of origin. Here's a link to the Pay Per View Version. Once the player loads, click play to display an info box and then click on the preview button. This will play 6 minutes which is the 1st chapter of the DVD where Leyla provides an introduction and discussion about "Continual Soft Movements". If you resonate with it you can click the Buy button. (note, we're currently having issues with Comcast email addresses - others are ok)

Sincerely,
Dan

I'm not engaging you on the rest of your lecture but...

Preview button only would play 10 seconds for me. I've tried it multiple times and I am viewing on a mac with Firefox. It crashed my friend's computer when she tried it, but I don't know what she used.

You Tube is what most of the market is using to preview things nowadays and if a search brings up a youtube performance video that is easier to access/find than your preview clips...that is what many will judge your product on, rightly or wrongly. Some might look further, many won't.

Originally Posted by ozma

Preview button only would play 10 seconds for me. I've tried it multiple times and I am viewing on a mac with Firefox.

Windows Vista using Firefox, and I only got 10 seconds (of drum solo music and a static picture) too when I pressed the preview button.

Originally Posted by bellydancehusband

To be clear.
The other point I want to make which I think goes largely overlooked and is more general in nature, is this: The difference between performing and teaching is like night and day. Performance excellence will not guarantee that the performer is also a worthy teacher.

Good point. Nevertheless personally I would rather buy an instructional DVD from a dancer who I consider more inspiring. The reason is that when I intend to buy this kind of product I don't keep in mind who might be a better teacher.
What I think about is -- do I want to learn bellydance or do I want to dance like Michael Jackson?

Originally Posted by bellydancehusband

To be clear.

My response was actually to (what I believe were offensive) comments that were out of line and was done for two reasons (besides the fact that I'm her husband and lover her) - First to provide balance for the Google bot and future readers and second to draw a line in the sand (for reasons both specific to Leyla and in general) regarding decorum - I would have been equally horrified had such been said about anyone.



.[/B]

Hmmm... My personal point of view is that a real good dancers don't ever need to "provide a balance" as you say simply because it is hard to find bad or negative reviews of them. For example I couldn't find any horrifying responses about Zahra, Hannan, Rania Renee, Tito, Sandra, Jillina etc

Originally Posted by Avradoorn

.
I think we've all seen enough of the "hey, I went to a couple of classes, I can make my own dvd now!" breed

Agreed. They can sale their videos to anyone they want but not to me.

I only got 10 secs too, of music, and a static intro page. It didn't give me any indication of what the video is like at all, and I would not consider buying it based on this.

Originally Posted by bellydancehusband

Lastly to answer a specific question by Avradoorn regarding trailers. We choose not do trailers for a very good reason.

Hi Leyla, hi Dan,

It is me who started this thread in honest interest of the dvd I found some info about on amazon.com, but could not find a trailer for.
I am sorry if it offended you saying that the concrete youtube performance video I watched was not "entirely my cup of tea". Be aware you scored much better than the bellydance youtube queen Sadie, who is not my cup of tea at all. Every criticism is relative, I guess.
As many have said here, tastes vary so widely and wildly regarding bellydance, with Europeans enjoying different things than Americans or Russians, Arabs frequently not enjoying Western innovations, pro's and fellow dancers liking and appreciating different things than special interest audience or students etc. As has been said, some people will love the videos posted some won't. It may have been better to let things take their natural course - from experience, pro and con voices keep a certain balance on must of bhuz's threads. Of course you are free to contribute your differing opinions here, as well, and I do not mind if you tell me you were offended by anything I said at all.

I got the feeling you replied to my (short) comment on what I expected from the dvd, and hoped to find confirmation or falsification for in a trailer. While the performance I watched may not have been my cup of tea, I meant to say I read the description I found on amazon made me expect not a pure technique dvd, but unique content and instruction, special topic-wise (which renders the fact whether I love the performance of a dancer somewhat less relevant for whether I am interested in the purchase of the dvd). I was (and am) interested in whether this dvd presents a fundamentally different style of bellydance, more family-friendly, less diva-esque, less self-centred, more "part of the crowd", blending in etc. (Which is what I expect from the amazon description.)

To be honest, I have stopped buying dvds by dancers whose performance style I am not madly in love with without seeing a trailer. I own too many dvds already to justify the purchase of even more.

To see a few minutes of introduction to a class is not a substitute for a trailer for me - warming up, explaining posture and approach are so generic, and tell so little about the "meat" of the dvd. Yes, I am aware trailers are clever marketing tools. They will present the most delicious goodies on the dvd, and suggest there is way more of the same outstanding innovativeness, which may or may not be the case. But I must say I have rarely been disappointed in a dvd whose trailer I loved. Normally they give an accurate - if uber favorable and exciting - glimpse into the dvd. As a consumer, I will not blindly put my trust into trailers. But they constitute the relatively best option for making a rather informed buy from my experience. And, personally, I appreciate if producers open up this possibility for me.

Please know that my intention to learn more about the dvd and questions about trailers were and are sincere from my side.

Originally Posted by daada_

Hmmm... My personal point of view is that a real good dancers don't ever need to "provide a balance" as you say simply because it is hard to find bad or negative reviews of them. For example I couldn't find any horrifying responses about Zahra, Hannan, Rania Renee, Tito, Sandra, Jillina etc

Well, you can read many opinions about Jillina not being someone's cup of tea - she isn't mine either! ..l;,

Originally Posted by Avradoorn

.... I'm curious- having just been leered at by my friends' ex (shamelessly, RIGHT in front of my husband as well!) I'm really getting fluffed up about being family-friendly...or at least, not damn well leering material! Feh. Back to bed... :(

if you're dancing with poise and good taste, the only thing to do is ignore them. it's obnoxious and can be disconcerting, but one person's nun is another person's slut, so there's not much you can do other than hold yourself honestly to your own standards. the fact that this particular instance stood out to you seems like it doesn't happen all the time, like not everyone does that, which means it's probably that guy and not you. ^_^
happy hips!

Originally Posted by raqFariha

if you're dancing with poise and good taste, the only thing to do is ignore them. it's obnoxious and can be disconcerting, but one person's nun is another person's slut, so there's not much you can do other than hold yourself honestly to your own standards. the fact that this particular instance stood out to you seems like it doesn't happen all the time, like not everyone does that, which means it's probably that guy and not you. ^_^
happy hips!

Wouldn't actually have been so bothered if I HAD been dancing...I was doing the background music at a show, in an all-encompassing skirt with long-johns under and my husband's big wooly jumper because it was freezin'....w.:

Originally Posted by Avradoorn

Wouldn't actually have been so bothered if I HAD been dancing...I was doing the background music at a show, in an all-encompassing skirt with long-johns under and my husband's big wooly jumper because it was freezin'....w.:

oh my!.w.:
then he's just a creeper!

The most unfortunate result of snarky comments in general is that they take away from the community of belly dance. It is a small world we live in and a comment coming from the other side of the globe can cause hurt to another human being. Is this a good thing? Is it OK? NO! Public figures are not immune to hurt!

I find it amazing that some dancers on this forum think it's alright to hurt someone's/anyone's feelings. Is it a bad thing to be sensitive to what others think? I don't believe it is. Leyla may be sensitive to your comments. But she is also sensitive to her students needs. She is the most open and available teacher I have come across. She receives countless emails a day and takes time to personally answer them herself. I am not one of her students. I am a fellow teacher who marvels over the time and energy she spends at her chosen profession.

Leyla has been instrumental in training some of the best restaurant dancers here in New Mexico. She is not a new dancer. She was the head dancer at the biggest and nicest Middle Eastern establishment in our city. She's been at it for over 20 years! You people who think its a good thing to put uninformed comments out there need to put yourself in a public figures place. Consider yourselves fortunate that Dan and Leyla took time out of their very busy schedules to grace you with a response.

Speaking as one of those people who would not put my self out there because of my thin skin. You all who perpetuate a negative atmosphere, miss out on some of the most caring teachers you'll ever come across. The more sensitive ones would rather just stay quiet and teach those that appreciate them. Lucky for you Leyla takes her chances. Give her free videos a try. You may just change your mind.

Originally Posted by Rozanaljinan

Consider yourselves fortunate that Dan and Leyla took time out of their very busy schedules to grace you with a response.

Noted.

"Public figures" though, by their nature, invite comment. For any one person working in the public eye, people are going to love them, people are going to hate them. As a musician there are many people who'll come to me at gigs and tell me I was wonderful (which is nice!), but for every one of them, maybe somebody thinks I suck and just can't be bothered to say. Or worse, last night I was working with a choir and had somebody who's not a musician herself but feels herself qualified to criticise sneer "Well, she can't exactly play piano, can she? Haha!" Multiple universally-recognised teaching and professional performance qualifications give me a certain advantage over dancers when dealing with that sort of thing, but was I hurt? Well, yeah.
But I also accepted that I was putting myself out as a pro, the fact that I had taken the gig invited people to make a judgement on me for good or ill, and not everybody was going to gush. Did I slink home and cry, or have a go at her for having an opinon? No. I don't agree with her opinion (people whose professional judgement I respect say I'm pretty good) but she's still entitled to it. And so is everybody else.
Oh, and I find that replying to emails is basic courtesy, rather than a great favour that we should be deeply grateful for. I've just come home from playing at a Remembrance service attended by some lovely WWII veterans, to whom I feel grateful for what they did back then. I'm grateful to my husband for making dinner when I'm home late, even if he's had a rough day himself. I'm grateful to the experienced girls in my troupe who've taken it on themselves to "fast-track" me in this beautiful dance so that I can perform with them, when they've had to learn much more slowly without the help they're giving me between classes. I don't feel especially grateful for being communally admonished like a difficult child for having an opinion, especially as I didn't express one on either dvd (which I *was* actually interested in!) or YouTube performance, other than to point out that, well, buyers like trailers. We're well aware that trailers are cherry-picked, but it's nice to have an overall preview impression. Anyway- anybody else feel it's time to put this thread to bed? Rosey?

Originally Posted by Rozanaljinan

Consider yourselves fortunate that Dan and Leyla took time out of their very busy schedules to grace you with a response.
.

How cool! Her Majesty Leyla

Is it just me or does anybody else smell the decidedly cheesey whiff of a sockpuppet?
Mmmm...cheese...I love cheese...who's got a good cheese-based recipe?

Nope..hate to disappoint..Rozana is also a dancer and instructor in Northern New Mexico

Originally Posted by Rozanaljinan

The most unfortunate result of snarky comments in general is that they take away from the community of belly dance. It is a small world we live in and a comment coming from the other side of the globe can cause hurt to another human being. Is this a good thing? Is it OK? NO! Public figures are not immune to hurt!

I find it amazing that some dancers on this forum think it's alright to hurt someone's/anyone's feelings. Is it a bad thing to be sensitive to what others think? I don't believe it is. Leyla may be sensitive to your comments. But she is also sensitive to her students needs. She is the most open and available teacher I have come across. She receives countless emails a day and takes time to personally answer them herself. I am not one of her students. I am a fellow teacher who marvels over the time and energy she spends at her chosen profession.

Leyla has been instrumental in training some of the best restaurant dancers here in New Mexico. She is not a new dancer. She was the head dancer at the biggest and nicest Middle Eastern establishment in our city. She's been at it for over 20 years! You people who think its a good thing to put uninformed comments out there need to put yourself in a public figures place. Consider yourselves fortunate that Dan and Leyla took time out of their very busy schedules to grace you with a response.

Speaking as one of those people who would not put my self out there because of my thin skin. You all who perpetuate a negative atmosphere, miss out on some of the most caring teachers you'll ever come across. The more sensitive ones would rather just stay quiet and teach those that appreciate them. Lucky for you Leyla takes her chances. Give her free videos a try. You may just change your mind.

I would have tried their videos, EXCEPT for their behavior on this forum.

Given their responses, I will not purchase from this person.

Agh, the art of taking terrible reviews of a DVD that you put your heart and soul into. Been there!

Here are some of the more memorable reviews of my first DVDs from Amazon - mind you, this is before I made DVDS with other instructors and they are talking about me:

------
Don't buy it. It is a waste. She does not know how to give precise instrucitons and she is a horrible dancer. I just put it in the garbage.

-----

First of all, from the very start the video was chopped up and confusing. The workout segments wouldn't raise the heart rate of a 90 year old and the whole thing was a complete failure. What it really looks like is a bored house wife with very little belly dance expertise who wanted to make a video. I feel completely ripped off!

----

I found this video to be on the amateur side-the instructor was not good at explaining the moves (at one point saying "you know"-no I don't know!) and the video looked as if someone had made it in their basement. It is a cheap, basic video but not well-produced.

---

Wow, I was so pissed off at first when I read those reviews!! I literally lost sleep over some of them. I considered trolling and responding, or recruiting my friends to log on and engage... but... Nothing you do will be for everyone. And not everyone has the guts to put themselves out there. It is easy to critique people from the comfort of your computer. It is true that people don't understand the limitations of an independent production and that they are used to seeing very glossy, expensive television. And it is true that it really hurts to see people spit on your name.

That said, if it is a product that is being sold for money, people have the right to review it. When I read bad reviews I take a breath and ask myself if there is actually any critique that I can use. It isn't worth worrying about. If there are people out there who are your fans and who love your product, all the better.

I have found it is never a good idea to respond defensively to bad reviews. I think it makes people look unpleasant and a little crazy (I've been there myself). A true professional learns how to take critique quietly. You cannot win if you engage with a critic. You will only make people dislike you. If a critique is unfair and cruel, readers will see that for themselves. And never... EVER... go on and on about how they don't know what they are talking about and how great you are. They will flame you like there is no tomorrow!!

Originally Posted by michellejoyce

You cannot win if you engage with a critic. You will only make people dislike you. If a critique is unfair and cruel, readers will see that for themselves. And never... EVER... go on and on about how they don't know what they are talking about and how great you are. They will flame you like there is no tomorrow!!

Best advice on the thread, I think Ozma said about the same thing. If you are a supporter of Dan and Leyla, best to let this thread die. If, on the other hand you plan to make your own DVD, please reread.

Originally Posted by Rozanaljinan

Consider yourselves fortunate that Dan and Leyla took time out of their very busy schedules to grace you with a response.

..l;,..l;,..l;,
I fear you are actually serious with this!

Originally Posted by michellejoyce

You will only make people dislike you. If a critique is unfair and cruel, readers will see that for themselves. And never... EVER... go on and on about how they don't know what they are talking about and how great you are. They will flame you like there is no tomorrow!!

I had noticed previously a few of your Amazon critiques/reviews (and some on youtube trailers) are quite below the belt. Sad to hear you took some of them to heart!
Anyways, no matter how bad things may have been, I can never imagine you over-defensively telling people they don't know what they're talking about when criticizing your videos!

Michelle has great advice. Not that Leyla regrets writing anything, but I too have written defensive things on the internet that I regret about various things. I've grown from it and wouldn't do it again (it's not worth it!)

Giving Leyla a little love here, she was one of the very first professional dancers I saw in Dallas when I was a baby dancer. She inspired me so much that I still do a move today I call the "Leyla" move. Plus, she is a very kind person.

You can always learn something from every dancer you see. I don't think it's others' responsibility to inspire us, we have to search for the inspiration in our surroundings.

Don't discount her DVD because she has a unique, different style that's not "trendy" (her uniqueness should be a selling point) or because she stands up for herself and you interpret that as insecurity or defensiveness.

We all make mistakes, or do things others view as mistakes. There isn't a soul out there who is perfect, and there isn't a dancer out there who wouldn't be extremely hurt and defensive if someone said terrible things about her dancing - wouldn't you? (At least on the inside and very tempted to vocalize it.) I don't think there's any need to "ban" her DVD over something so silly.

Peace out :)

Originally Posted by Sadiyya

Michelle has great advice.
Giving Leyla a little love here, she was one of the very first professional dancers I saw in Dallas .. Don't discount her DVD because she has a unique, different style that's not "trendy" or because she stands up for herself and you interpret that as insecurity or defensiveness.
We all make mistakes, or do things others view as mistakes.
..

..quote edited by me for length.
This post is a kind and mature way to view the reaction of Leyla & Dan to negative comments. (I don't know them at all).
Maybe it seems as if we are beating this to death, but this thread interests me from a "human" point of view.
When things get heated, defensive, combative even, it makes me examine my own views more closely. This is something I have gained with age and maturity ; I was not at all receptive to others' viewpoints when I was younger. I would get p*ssed off and withdraw, or yell louder. I thought of myself as rebellious and feisty but I was more like rude and inconsiderate.
I have learned to try not to be defensive because for me it causes more stress and backfires on me.
I also have less energy on if I am viewed favorably or not. Some people view me as beautiful, some as odd looking. Some people find me endearing, some find me annoying. Some people like the way I dance, some don't. Ditto on most stuff. I try to keep learning and growing.
I am ok with those views because my own views have broadened with time. I'm a 60 yr old Bellydancer since I was a teen. [I love it still] .People simply have different viewpoints on ...everything. It's nice to be "nice", it's nice to agree, but we need diversity on many levels in life as well. Passion trumps blah in my book.

What I take from this thread:
1. I prefer to read critcism formed as opinion framed as "Her dancing seemed ........ to me" rather than terms such as "awful". Such charged words turn me off and makes the reviewer seem childish to me. I therefore tend to discount it. I recognize that some people prefer bluntness as being more direct and honest. I am often too blunt myself, so it's not as if I never put my foot in my mouth or offend.
2. L & D overreacted. No response would have been better and let the forum hash out the pros and cons. This doesn't make them evil or stupid though. Human.
3. Dan's "lecture" was over the top. That really turned me off. I'm sure it came from a place of deep support and love for his wife. I don't think he is a terrible person for this.
4. The friend's response was in the "You just don't understaaaaand" mode, which is alienating to most.
5. Michelle J's comments were brave, open, and helpful. Kudos for honesty and baring "flaws".
6. The last post above was kind and mature. I admire that way of thinking.
7. I am still interested in viewing Leyla's work to form my own opinion.

Originally Posted by LiesaB.

..quote edited by me for length.
(snip for brevity)

What I take from this thread:
1. I prefer to read critcism formed as opinion framed as "Her dancing seemed ........ to me" rather than terms such as "awful". Such charged words turn me off and makes the reviewer seem childish to me. I therefore tend to discount it. I recognize that some people prefer bluntness as being more direct and honest. I am often too blunt myself, so it's not as if I never put my foot in my mouth or offend.
2. L & D overreacted. No response would have been better and let the forum hash out the pros and cons. This doesn't make them evil or stupid though. Human.
3. Dan's "lecture" was over the top. That really turned me off. I'm sure it came from a place of deep support and love for his wife. I don't think he is a terrible person for this.
4. The friend's response was in the "You just don't understaaaaand" mode, which is alienating to most.
5. Michelle J's comments were brave, open, and helpful. Kudos for honesty and baring "flaws".
6. The last post above was kind and mature. I admire that way of thinking.
7. I am still interested in viewing Leyla's work to form my own opinion.

Thank you for your post, I'll respond in order to clarify my own previously brief responses.

1. Yes, I agree with this. There is a way to give constructive criticism that is more likely (usually not, but I'm cynical by this time) to be heard by the recipient.

2. Yes. They did. I don't see how to excuse this.

3. Again, over the top. But also, you don't berate a potential audience for having opinions and treat them as lesser being if they disagree with you.

4. Again, yes. And again, whether we understand or not, it's out money that is going out to purchase, and I vote with my wallet.

5. A true professional.

6. Again, agreed. And the only one written in "defense" of the original artist that would make me *want* to reconsider my decision to eschew the dvd. It's the only response that made me feel that I might be missing out on buying the dvd, that she does indeed have something to offer.

7. Still, not enough to overcome my initial distate for the reaction that the couple had, and their behavior.

And, I am a collector of dvd's, love them and have a couple of hundred. I buy them for their content and believe that in every single one (even Dolphina's (!)) there is something to learn, even if it's what not to do.

I have no personal relation to the producers, and don't know them apart from this thread, but their reaction was so negative that I really don't want to give them my money.

It's how opinions are formed. First impressions and all that. I wish them well and hope they take something from this.

..still stuck on "family friendly"..wtf

Consider yourselves fortunate that Dan and Leyla took time out of their very busy schedules to grace you with a response.

..ah, ..ok..ha ha is this a joke?
also, you ladies who dance egyptian...have i NEVER heard any of you say "egyptian caberet?"...have i?..i found a clip on youtube....staying in one spot is taxism, isnt it ?

Originally Posted by Rozanaljinan

I Consider yourselves fortunate that Dan and Leyla took time out of their very busy schedules to grace you with a response.

oh. my. goodness! I really hope this comment wasn't meant to come across the way that it does!

Dan, Leyla, welcome to the internet. Its a harsh cruel place. If you're doing stuff on the internet a lot at some point you're likely to get trolled or flamed just because some people get a kick out of it. People will say extemely rude and cruel things. Saying that you're an aweful dancer is the least of things they could say. Honestly I don't think she was out of line one bit. She was just expressing her opinion and has every right to do so. I have not seen Leyla's dancing so I personally have no opinion. I think people are too nice on this forum. If people think somebody is a crappy dancer they should be able to say it without being raked over the coals. But in general I think if you're putting yourself out there on the internet you need to develop a thicker skin.