Thread: Leyla Najma Sensual Soft Moves for Family Friendly Restaurant Performing

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00427ZMSC/ref=pe_5140_16906130_snp_dp]Amazon.com: Continual Soft Moves For Family Friendly Restaurant Performing: Leyla Najma: Movies & TV[/ame]

Anyone heard of this one? Sounds interesting!

There was some mention of her previous instruction about 3 years ago...
Not much help I see...
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...al-videos.html

Her website has lots of videos;

Learn Egyptian Cabaret Belly Dancing From Leyla Najma

I'm kind of puzzled by the idea of using choreography for a restaurant gig. Unless you're lucky enough to work in one with a stage area, where you don't have to worry about working around tables, patrons and wait staff, of course. But I don't haven't seen many restaurants like that.

I noticed it on Amazon but I'm as in the dark as everybody else (atm, literally- gotta migraine...), maybe it's not choreo pre se but combos to sprinkle amongst improv? I'm curious- having just been leered at by my friends' ex (shamelessly, RIGHT in front of my husband as well!) I'm really getting fluffed up about being family-friendly...or at least, not damn well leering material! Feh. Back to bed... :(

I believe this is the link for her youtube videos: YouTube - hipphylosophy's Channel but I don't see a preview for that one.

...

Originally Posted by Esmahann

I am so sorry but someone has to say that her dancing is awful! I have watched her videos and really, she has to work hard on her hands and her "soft moves" look like she got an electric shock :-( also there is no elegance in her dance-style. but I have to thank her because now I know what to avoid and how I should NOT dance... thanks again!

Hmmm.. can't say her performances were my cup of tea, entirely, either.. I think I expected something of the title the video may or may not be (what type of moves suit a family friendly environment, what to modify, what to accentuate, etc). I did not expect technique, but hoped for good experience and teaching skills as well as a thoughtful concept/richness in content.. curious for a trailer though..

Hey Leyla Najma here.............not sure who all of you are and it's okay if you think my dancing is awful or not to your taste. But the one thing I want to get across to you all is that I help out a lot of dancers who dig my dancing and appreciate what I am sharing with them.

One thing I really don't like about chat's like this is it gives people the freedom to talk about someone they don't know and I think you all need to realize that we are all doing what we love. Go out and do your own videos and get across what you feel is important for dancers to know.

There are dancers I don't care for but I'm too busy doing what I love to do to waste time talking about what I don't like about them. It's about being in a community where we may not all agree on what we like but we live with the freedom to do what we like.

Originally Posted by Esmahann

I am so sorry but someone has to say that her dancing is awful! I have watched her videos and really, she has to work hard on her hands and her "soft moves" look like she got an electric shock :-( also there is no elegance in her dance-style. but I have to thank her because now I know what to avoid and how I should NOT dance... thanks again!

Your welcome..but don't know who you are and why you feel the need to be negative. Haven't seen your dancing and don't know if I really want to. But the one thing here that I feel you could use is a little compassion and humilty.

...

Originally Posted by Esmahann

Dear Najma! I did not want to insult you! And of course you can do what you like and be happy with it!

You *did* succeed very well in insulting her dancing, whether you were trying to or not.

Hello Najma, welcome to Bhuz. I'm sorry it was under these unpleasant circumstances.

Hi Leyla, Anala from NM down under I 40. Happy to see you found this place. I too, have had the unfortunate experience of saying WTF about a dance troupe called The Nekia (sp) only to have the director appear after 30 or 40 posts into a thread called... I must live in a cave, bordello belly is real! It just proved that i don't get out much! I have since given more headroom to folks who's style is not like mine. I still don't care for it, but it did open my eyes to what other peoples artistic vision is and I am much slower to judge that I used to be. I also realized how small the belly dance on line community is.

I must say, this place has taught me a lot. Right now, with the bad economy, the place is infested with costume selling posts, but there are some real pearls lying around if you use the search function.

I give you props for your free on line classes, and putting yourself out there for people to comment on. 99% of the people who dance are afraid to it! See you up north the end of October.

This is Dan, Leyla’s husband. I am going to contribute to this thread because Leyla is my wife & we are loving partners. We work together to produce high quality reasonably priced instruction for students that want to learn more about Belly Dancing. Our business focus is always on giving more in value then we receive. With this in place I’ll reply to the comments in a sincere & passionate way without being offensive.

I gave myself 24 hours to consider this thread. Had I responded yesterday I would have exposed my reptilian brain. I may have felt better but it wouldn’t have added value. Personally Esmahhan’s comments are insulting & I’m horrified by the enmity. I find it bizarre that someone can spew hateful remarks in a public forum with little knowledge or conscience. I find it even more bizarre that she would reply saying “Dear Najma! I did not want to insult you!” – Well then may I ask what your intentions were? The problem is that this enmity will be indexed by the Google brain & will live forever. Others will find it & without knowing any better ascribe Esmahhan unearned credibility & possibly draw an erroneous conclusion. Google isn’t smart enough yet to account for credibility & incapable of assigning an appropriate weight to opinions. The result then is that others reading the thread not taking time to research the veracity of the comments may take what was said as “The Word”. So for other dancers & the “Google Brain” let me say… With a bit of research she would have discovered…..
1. We have many positive comments and testimonials on our site.
2. We were one of the first to offer free a mini-curriculum for beginning & intermediate dancers using premium streaming.
3. We were the first to offer “Video Rentals” to minimizing risk.
4. We were the only ones to offer “Custom” made instructional videos.
5. We were the first to provide at no extra cost immediate access to the full length online videos with any DVD purchase.
6. We we’re the first to do a live internet broadcast & recently concluded a successful 4 week program.

I could go on but I’d be self promoting. I only want to passionately & purposefully add balance by illustrating some contributions. I defend anyone’s right to free speech but I’d be as horrified had these comments been about any instructor. The bottom line is this...Thoughts & words are things of vibration & power. Used wisely they contribute to an outcome that benefits people. Used unwisely they have destructive power & consequences benefiting no one. Speech is always a choice and our choices reflect who we are, our self image & how we envision our existence in the world. The difference between liberty & freedom is in responsibility & because we can say something doesn’t mean we should. Knowing this means knowing the difference between the earned wisdom of the mature mind & the folly of the infantile. BTW if you want to know more about the DVD in question call! We’re a business we take phone calls.

Well, I'm sure Esmahann learned a valuable lesson on how not to be so judgemental, but I would like to bring this thread back to a more positive light. Leyla, I would be interested in seeing a trailer of the dvd if you have it available. Please post it if you do, maybe promote it in a different thread? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Esmahann

I am so sorry but someone has to say that her dancing is awful! I have watched her videos and really, she has to work hard on her hands and her "soft moves" look like she got an electric shock :-( also there is no elegance in her dance-style. but I have to thank her because now I know what to avoid and how I should NOT dance... thanks again!

So true! Totally agree...

Originally Posted by Leyla-Najma

Hey Leyla Najma here.............not sure who all of you are and it's okay if you think my dancing is awful or not to your taste. But the one thing I want to get across to you all is that I help out a lot of dancers who dig my dancing and appreciate what I am sharing with them.

One thing I really don't like about chat's like this is it gives people the freedom to talk about someone they don't know and I think you all need to realize that we are all doing what we love. Go out and do your own videos and get across what you feel is important for dancers to know.

There are dancers I don't care for but I'm too busy doing what I love to do to waste time talking about what I don't like about them. It's about being in a community where we may not all agree on what we like but we live with the freedom to do what we like.

Welcome to bhuz.

Here's the thing though, any public project, such as dvd's for sale, are open to being critiqued.

While it may not be easy to read, it's still an important part of the creation process to hear others critiques of our work so that we can continue to grow as artists.

Good luck on your endeavors

Originally Posted by kina

Welcome to bhuz.

Here's the thing though, any public project, such as dvd's for sale, are open to being critiqued.

While it may not be easy to read, it's still an important part of the creation process to hear others critiques of our work so that we can continue to grow as artists.

Good luck on your endeavors

Ditto this! I haven't even watched the clips yet, but i agree - anyone with a dvd needs to realize that criticism is part of the game.

Originally Posted by danielabellydance

Ditto this! I haven't even watched the clips yet, but i agree - anyone with a dvd needs to realize that criticism is part of the game.

Thirded.

Criticism need not be couched in terms like "awful". I think you can make a point without being quite so brutal.

Disclaimer - I know Leyla and Dan.

Further disclaimer - ever since my bordello belly days, I have vowed to never be snarky about another clip unless it was from a "professional instructor" so bad it hurt my eyes or it was a disgrace to the dance form.

Well, one aspect to take into account: Clearly, the comment came across as unnecessarily harsh and everybody can agree the same point could have been formulated in a much more diplomatic, constructive way. However, at the same time, if her profile information is correct, the poster is most likely not a native speaker of English, and comes from a country whose people sometimes can be mistaken as rude and confrontational, even when that is not the intended tone at all. With that in mind, it may not be bad to assume that at least part of what we see are culture and language differences.

Originally Posted by kina

Welcome to bhuz.

Here's the thing though, any public project, such as dvd's for sale, are open to being critiqued.

Agreed.

When a product is out for dancers, about dancing, it is essential that the market for that product be able to talk about the quality of dancing. There are many products on the market today and dancer/consumer discourse helps us decide what is worth spending money, what suits us.

Is each consumer's opinion subjective? Yup! That's why we need multiple voices responding to the product and the dancing (not just the positive reviews on the website because, well, duh!) to assist us in figuring out where we want to focus our tight dollars.

We don't blindly listen to the negative reviews (well unless they come from a source we know to be very much in keeping with our own dance values..and that's not really "blindly"). We want a variety of responses to come up when we google a product so we can make an INFORMED CHOICE. If the product maker wants only one sort of review to come up on Google...the product maker is unrealistic about how this world works.

Are there ways the commentors could have been more diplomatic with their negative reviews of the dancing?...sure! But the discussion of the quality of the dancing/product is gonna happen and we need for it to happen.

Every published author I know has learned the folly of personally engaging negative amazon reviewers and other sources of reviews. They know, after some missteps, to stay removed from that pursuit....it's a no win.

On a personal note:
Having multiple people involved in the DVD project come here to scold and then to LECTURE the very consumer-base they want. That is a huge turn-off. That is unprofessional and is what strikes us more than the long list of why they are professional they have posted.

Dancing and product unseen, I will go for the professional product that doesn't meddle with me if they Google later and find I have issues with the product.

Originally Posted by bellydancehusband

Google isn’t smart enough yet to account for credibility & incapable of assigning an appropriate weight to opinions.

But individual dancers ARE smart enough to read, account for credibility. look at you tube clips, assign weight to opinions AND MORE!

I'm not Google's slave girl and resent implications (and they are there) that we, your target audience, are not going to look at more than one source of reviews to make our choices....although my curiosity about this product ended when you came here.

Every published author I know has learned the folly of personally engaging negative amazon reviewers and other sources of reviews. They know, after some missteps, to stay removed from that pursuit....it's a no win.
That is a very good point

I know that I personally don't like to buy products whose producers refuse negative feedback and make disdainful comments about their customer base.

And Anala is right, snarking clips unless they're professional is not a good idea... but this is a professional product, isn't it, produced by professionals?

You have to take the bad with the good when you sell your dancing and teaching.

Kina, Daniela, Ozma & Zumarrd make excellent points.

My personal feeling is that Esmahann's words were not that bad. She thought the dancing was awful and gave some examples as to why. The only thing that I might consider harsh was the "how not to dance" part. She didn't call the person names or make any personal attacks. If that one little thing gets a person's panties in a wad, when they've put themselves out there to be viewed, they're really not ready to be on an internet message board. Even one as so self-policed and full of puppies and rainbows as Bhuz. Hell, they probably shouldn't be putting themselves out there on the internet if they're so thinned skinned.

I cannot comment on the dancing since I didn't view the clips and really have no desire to. Especially with with the way both the lady and her husband responded to a small criticism from one person.

Originally Posted by Leyla-Najma

Hey Leyla Najma here.............not sure who all of you are.

Who are we? We are an international forum that serves a large part of the market you want to reach with your product, dancers.

Instead of taking "us" on individually, why not act on the fact that in reading this thread you've learned that there are dancers who want more information about your DVD: make an on-line preview/trailer for it, review the press you have about your product and edit it for clarity so better covers the issues people here are unsure about.

I think it's safe to say Leyla Najma has lost herself quite a few potential customers here. Simply after watching the videos of her dancing on youtube, I would not purchase an instructional dvd from her, but the behavior on this thread has turned me off even more.

I have to agree- I'm a dvd junkie, but I can't bring myself to buy material from anybody who throws a strop over criticism. I admit, there's more than Leyla whose comments on Bhuz I've found off-putting, and it always worries me a bit when somebody is *too* defensive, it suggests they know they're wrong- like when my dad swore blind the dog had knocked a vase over and broke it, and I only extracted a confession after several beers... ;) Not implying that Layla "knows she's awful" or something, but that's how I feel it comes across. Personally her dancing's not to my taste, but nobodys' dancing is going to be to everybodys!
I think we've all seen enough of the "hey, I went to a couple of classes, I can make my own dvd now!" breed (the name Estelle is forever burned into my brain!) to want to avoid shelling out our hard-earned cash on something that turns our to be another of these "projects", and a true professional should realise that- I don't think many of us are willing to buy dvds without a trailer, right?

To be clear. Leyla, or I are not opposed, nor am I "Throwing a strop" regarding anyone's opinion, critique, or praise for that matter regarding the virtue of the DVD in question. Which is what gave birth to this thread. The acrimonious comments didn't have anything to do with the virtue of the title.

My response was actually to (what I believe were offensive) comments that were out of line and was done for two reasons (besides the fact that I'm her husband and lover her) - First to provide balance for the Google bot and future readers and second to draw a line in the sand (for reasons both specific to Leyla and in general) regarding decorum - I would have been equally horrified had such been said about anyone.

There is certainly no expectation that this DVD will appeal to everyone. Like "Honest Abe" said; you can please some of the people some of the time etc,etc, etc. I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase and that is perfectly ok. Anyone who knows anything about marketing knows this.

The other point I want to make which I think goes largely overlooked and is more general in nature, is this: The difference between performing and teaching is like night and day. Performance excellence will not guarantee that the performer is also a worthy teacher. Thousands of examples come to mind. Casey Stengel was a very mediocre baseball player but he was the manager of one of the most successful baseball dynasties ever! Hundred's of examples like this are everywhere. They are two different skill sets.

Lastly to answer a specific question by Avradoorn regarding trailers. We choose not do trailers for a very good reason. I can tell you given a personal and professional background in film distribution that a movies trailer is often the best part of the film. We've all experienced this. So we decided that we'd provide sample instruction in the form of a free 60 minute on line series for both Beginning Belly Dancers and Intermediate Belly Dancers, rather then do trailers for each DVD. I believe it's infinitely more transparent, a better way to build trust and in everyones best interest.

To close and bring this thread back to it's point of origin. Here's a link to the Pay Per View Version. Once the player loads, click play to display an info box and then click on the preview button. This will play 6 minutes which is the 1st chapter of the DVD where Leyla provides an introduction and discussion about "Continual Soft Movements". If you resonate with it you can click the Buy button. (note, we're currently having issues with Comcast email addresses - others are ok)

Sincerely,
Dan