Thread: The secrets of belly dance?

Hi, I am new to belly dancing and found out about this new course offering belly dance classes It looks really good and offers a free course of 10 lessons on individual moves.

I just wanted to know if anyone had tried these types of course and how they got on? I am not able to get to local classes that easy and this sort of solution really fits the bill for me...any help greatly appreciated.

Honestly, I think you'd do better just buying a DVD by a recommended dancer- a quick look on Amazon or a search through this forum will show you dozens of dvds aimed at beginners, all with lots of reviews to give you an what you're buying.

I found the website you linked to was badly written (lots of grammar and spelling mistakes), misleading (large pictures of dvds, but on following a link it was revealed you were actually buying a download) and the teacher appears to be at a very early stage of learning herself.

Hi thanks for the advice much appreciated! Actually, I don't think my grammar must be that good cause I did not notice the mistakes. I also realised that it was a download as it said so on the page so no problem there.

I spied her dancing at the link below and thought she was quite good to say the least but as a beginner, what do I know lol



Thanks once again for your advice :-)

This was where I viewed her dancing...thought the ending was rather good...

Originally Posted by LilithNoor

Honestly, I think you'd do better just buying a DVD by a recommended dancer- a quick look on Amazon or a search through this forum will show you dozens of dvds aimed at beginners, all with lots of reviews to give you an what you're buying.

I found the website you linked to was badly written (lots of grammar and spelling mistakes), misleading (large pictures of dvds, but on following a link it was revealed you were actually buying a download) and the teacher appears to be at a very early stage of learning herself.

it's very hard to separate the wheat from the chaff when you're first starting, the more you watch and learn the more you'll develop an eye for technique and other factors that go into a good dance.

Shira.net and Shemsdance.com both have a lot of info that you should use to supplement your dvds, since there's more to the dancing than just the moves this info is important, and it will help you to find a good teacher (for example, i once asked a teacher what style she taught, and she couldn't answer me. so i knew i should look elsewhere.)

If you want to watch hours of good dancing but aren't sure of what you're looking at yet, check out Shems' article about the different styles of BD.

i'd also recommend supplementing dvds with some study of anatomy, to give yourself a better idea of what the teachers are describing. for example some dvds say "tuck", and it's meant in reference to the average person's sway-backed posture. the "tuck" of basic posture should bring you to neutral pelvis, there are some threads you can find about that too. ^_^

here's a recent thread: http://www.bhuz.com/showthread.php/5...ht=dvds+friend

take your time, enjoy the journey of learning, and keep an eye out of workshops that you can attend. ^_^
welcome to bellydance!

I spied her dancing at the link below

Yes, I watched that as well. It's pleasant dancing, although her balance isn't great, her turns are clumsy and her arms are underused, but it's not what I'd be looking for in a teacher, and certainly not one who was charging for lessons.

I spell check for a living and bad spelling on a site trying to sell something always rings alarm bells in the brain of my inner editor.

I spied her dancing at the link below

Yes, I watched that as well. It's pleasant dancing, although her balance is off in some places and her arms are underused, but it's not what I'd be looking for in a teacher, and certainly not one who was charging for lessons.

I agree with what the others here have said.

I just wanted to add that if you go to ehow.com and search on belly dancing, there are several short online demos, just to give you a taste of some different moves and different styles. That might help you decide which direction you want to go.

Originally Posted by LilithNoor

Yes, I watched that as well. It's pleasant dancing, although her balance is off in some places and her arms are underused, but it's not what I'd be looking for in a teacher, and certainly not one who was charging for lessons.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback and help it's been great especially LilithNoor, it's great to get advice from someone who is pretty expert in it all :-) BTW LilithNoor, I don't suppose you have any videos of you belly dancing for me to watch?

Best wishes
Gen

Me? Hahahaha no. There's a big difference between knowing what to look for in a teacher and being an expert dancer in ones own right. I am an improver/intermediate at best.

I've been immortalised on DVD a couple of times at haflas, but no public release of those videos is allowed by the organisers.

Besides, if you want to learn, you're much better off watching experts than improvers like myself. Fortunately this forum is overflowing with fantastic dancers, so go have a rummage and see what you turn up!

Here are two general rules:
1. It is very rare that a beginner learns as well from video as from an in-person teacher. Videos don't correct you, and they can't answer your questions. They just blissfully do their own thing, unaware of whatever you're doing. If you have to learn from video because there simply is no possible way you could get to a class with a decent teacher, then at least pick videos that are widely recognized within the dance community as being good, and collect a couple of them, so you don't fall into the trap of thinking whatever that teacher says is the one and only way to do things. Sometimes videos have information that is misleading to a beginner, or occasionally even wrong. The better the video, the less likely this is to happen, but that's why you want a consensus of competent teachers, not a single data point. These older threads have some discussion on which videos are good for beginners:

http://www.bhuz.com/showthread.php/31566-Beginner-DVDs
http://www.bhuz.com/showthread.php/8...ellydance-DVDs
http://www.bhuz.com/showthread.php/2...g-and-learning

2. It is also fairly rare that if a student learns only from one teacher in isolation, she will achieve much beyond the level of that teacher's own dancing. In the absence of other input from additional learning sources, students usually rise to a ceiling of their teacher's competence, particularly in regard to issues like muscular intention, breathing into motion, expressing emotion through movement, and those other subtle skills that separate dancers with passable technique from truly good performers. Getting into proper habits as a beginner is very important, especially if you are a student without other extensive dance training and you would like to be better than "student quality" someday. It's easier to learn correctly the first time than to re-learn or reverse-engineer your technique later.

I'm not familiar with Maysa, which doesn't necessarily mean much since it appears she's based in the UK, but she is not known on the international teaching circuit, nor are her videos. I'm not going to dissect her technique, beyond hinting that I don't just write stuff to see how much I can type before hitting the character limit for posting. I'll also add that I'm a bit concerned that her YouTube channel doesn't have any indication she has online video of herself dancing anywhere but in controlled, edit-able circumstances. An established professional dancer would typically have some video uploaded of a live performance for an audience, not just slideshows and dancing in a house/studio/hotel lobby while someone films her. Another Bhuzzer who is more familiar with the UK dance scene may be willing to vouch for her, though.

Here's her personal website:
http://www.bellydancerreview.com/index.htm

She seems pretty new to the dance and performing, but in any case, I would choose in-person classes over the web ones, for the reasons stated above.

A brief web search leads to a number of instructors in Glasgow. It shouldn't be too hard to find a teacher there that you like :)

I'm always interested in new innovation in this dance particularly in the UK.
I'll state my case first : I am not at ease with on line lessons. I believe nothing replaces a GOOD teacher in a classroom.
: But there are people who cannot easily get to classes for one reaon or another.
:there are people who want to use this as an added bonus

Firstly : can we have the "lot of grammar and spelling mistakes" pointed out as I think it might be useful for the person concerned.
Secondly: I was in no doubt these were on line lessons
Thirdly: How is she not very experienced? performing opportunities are not great in the UK and it looks like this lady is shall we say.."not a young thang"..and investing her time in teaching and the community.

As a matter of interest..I'm going to stay in that Riad this spring..she must have gone with an organised trup with Kay Taylor who I know uses it for short break visits.
I do not know this lady personally.

I would say to any potential student.please do get to lessons..hell or high water or at least to workshops monthly. Use DVDs and On-line lessons are a second best..but hey ho first best if you have a not so good teacher

I've tried to reply to this three times now and my butterfingers keep eating my response. Bloody laptop!

Lizajuk, I'm not going to enumerate every spelling error on the site, as unless the owner is a poster on here, she won't benefit from it. My job makes me acutely aware of typoes in professional output, but I'm aware other people would gloss over them.

Newtobellydance- if you're based in Glasgow then Maysa isn't too far away. Why not go check her out in person? Like Aziyade said, inperson classes are always much better than online, and more fun too!

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Thirdly: How is she not very experienced? performing opportunities are not great in the UK and it looks like this lady is shall we say.."not a young thang"..and investing her time in teaching and the community.

Belly dancing is a performing art, and presenting yourself at the level of competence that would justify a student buying your videos implies that you have actually performed at some point for a real audience, not just your husband/friend/tripod and a video camera. A teacher who thinks she's qualified to be teaching online for money but hesitates to produce evidence of ever having danced live for an audience is one to be suspicious of, because this dance is more than learning hip circles, turns, and shimmies. I certainly understand that not all places have equal performing opportunities, but if you live in a "disadvantaged" area, and you, as a teacher, don't organize minimal events for yourself and your students to dance for others (even if it's just an audience of yourselves), then how does the "performing" part of "performing art" ever get learned? Anybody can practice moves and choreographies, but presenting that same dancing well on stage is another level of skill.

Maysa may be a very lovely, mature, knowledgeable, ethical dancer, and she may be a good "professional" teacher in that sense at the local level, but when you put yourself into the realm of video teacher, you're not at the local level anymore. You're telling the world that you deserve a spot at the "Big Girl Table" with Suhaila, Delilah, Ansuya, Hannan Sultan, and other dancers who offer tuition-required online videos. If Maysa had simply been uploading clips of her dancing onto YouTube, it wouldn't have been worth a second thought. She was the one who upped the expectations of what was required of her.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

......and presenting yourself at the level of competence that would justify a student buying your videos implies .....

well, she also has free lessons....http://www.thesecretsofbellydance.co...for%20free.htm.... (where is the can of worms icon?)

Originally Posted by raqFariha

well, she also has free lessons....http://www.thesecretsofbellydance.co...for%20free.htm.... (where is the can of worms icon?)

Well, since we're opening cans of worms anyway... is anyone else getting a sockpuppet vibe coupled with a hefty dose of sarcasm?

I wouldn't suggest spending money on this online class based on her dance performance. I can see numerous technique mistakes and you do not want to take someone else's bad habits as your own. (whether or not she should be charging money for said instruction is a whole other issue I won't get into here)

In addition to what is already suggested, I would also suggest you take some time to learn about some of the top dancers out there, then see what they have for instructional videos. You can do this by stalking the forums and seeing what people are saying about who or by purchasing professional performance videos like those of IMED, BDSS, Cheeky Girls and Bhuz TV. Watch lots of belly dancing. Scour youtube. The more you see, the more you will be able to distinguish between a professional dancer with clean technique that you can emulate and a newbie/intermediate dancer who's technique is not as solid.

A few of the "top" dancers with fab technique to get your started. Most of these dancers have DVDs available as well, and some have beginner level ones (I'm sure other Bhuzzer's can add to this list)
-Jillina
-Bozenka
-Tamlyn Dalal
-Rachel Brice
-Suhaila
-Amar Gamal
-Ava Flemming

Happy hunting!

Originally Posted by GenevieveOfAtlanta

Well, since we're opening cans of worms anyway... is anyone else getting a sockpuppet vibe coupled with a hefty dose of sarcasm?

LOL. I was waiting for someone else to say it. Especially since we had darn near the same conversation on OD.

is anyone else getting a sockpuppet vibe coupled with a hefty dose of sarcasm

That was my initial reaction, but I'm more used to sockpuppets on knitting forums (seriously, nothing brings the dramaz like crafting) so I didn't want to stir things up too much, just called it as I saw it- that site does not showcase teachable skills.

I agree re your concerns ladies...I am as suspicious as you.
However this thread has brought up generalised concerns.
Particularly I am wondering wether US dancers might consider we aught not to teach without having ac "performance" track record. How does someone like myself who started learning in her 50s, started teaching 5 years later and is still teaching beginners at a local college in her 60s get that kind of track record?. I am hardly likely to have had the kind of performance possibilities that a young US (or UK)student will. My performances will be like the teacher in question although I have also been fortunate to have the opportunities to perform in Festivals and "orientale" shows put on locally.So should I not teach? Frankly I have studied this dance with enthusiasm and have been trained to teach this dance and continue to learn myself .So despite my not being worthy of hire by restaurant or party planners or MC himself, I will teach thank you, until my employers deem me senile.
I make no comment on Maysa's capabilities (although I have an opinion) but I think when we do make specific criticism we should justify it. I , personally have no desire to go down that road just to make general comment on the idea of learning from such sources.Others have however itemised why they consider her work not to be recommended.
If you live in a city in the UK, it is highly unlikely that you cannot find a belly dance class nor should you need to recourse to "on-line" lessons And if you do, you do not need to choose a dancer "on your doorstep" (hence knitted alarm bells)
However it is perfectly possible that dancers might not want to learn from US dancers but rather "native" or those more thoroughly "Egyptian" or " Turkish" style.
I see little point in recommending the likes of Rachel Brice to someone who wants to learn "Orientale" for instance.
I also think it is very easy to criticise a dancer's style and very difficult to do so unless you are well-schooled and practised in that style. Being aware of my own frailties and prejudices, I have been there ,done that and got the T shirt showing how one can be slapped down.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

......Particularly I am wondering wether US dancers might consider we aught not to teach without having ac "performance" track record.....

U.S. dancers aren't of one opinion

Originally Posted by raqFariha

U.S. dancers aren't of one opinion

Thank the Lord for that!

I actually interpreted the "performance experience" comment to mean that a teacher should...well, have performance experience, but that the SORT of experience she needs really depends on what she teaches. I certainly don't think it's necessary for a teacher to be a restaurant dancer or a member of BDSS as a pre-requisite. But, to Tourbeau's point, I DO want to know that the instructor can teach me *how to perform this performance art*, and I'm not sure that's possible if one has never once set foot in front of an audience. I see plenty of dancers at dancer-only events and think, "Wow, I would definitely love to take a class from her!" because those dancers are good performers...regardless of the fact that they only perform at haflas/workshop shows/etc. and not at the Falafel Hut every Thursday at 7 p.m.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've tried to be very specific that my concerns are related to Maysa presenting herself as a video-caliber instructor. I think this teacher would be putting the cart before the horse if she were to nominate herself to teach a master class at the next JoY, too. Different levels of teaching require different standards of proficiency.

Perhaps she envisions herself as the "local teacher to the world," and that she's filling a need for people who don't have the opportunity to take beginner classes with a garden-variety instructor in person, but unfortunately, I don't think that model works here. When you're teaching at the local rec center, regardless of whether you're a workshop-quality dancer or a local pro with more modest abilities, you're engaged in a two-way process. Even if you can't do something perfectly yourself, you can still provide useful coaching feedback to your students. When you're teaching on video, you don't have that mitigating factor of being able to provide feedback. The shortcomings of your technique are left to fend for themselves.

Sometimes "well meaning" and "trying to do a good job" aren't sufficient. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of dancers whose names rhyme with "Ranine Jabbitt."

You don't get to nominate yourself to teach at JoY, you have to be invited!

Originally Posted by lizajuk

.So despite my not being worthy of hire by restaurant or party planners or MC himself, I will teach thank you, until my employers deem me senile.
I make no comment on Marya's capabilities (although I have an opinion) but I think when we do make specific criticism we should justify it. I , personally have no desire to go down that road just to make general comment on the idea of learning from such sources.Others have however itemised why they consider her work not to be recommended.

Liza,

Just to be perfectly clear.... This is NOT me! the lady in question spells her name Maysa, I am sure you just had a typo there, but I just wanted to clarify things.

Marya

Im really wondering if we are looking at the same page! I agree that the grammar isn't what I was taught at school, but things have changed since then, few people use correct grammar today, even in the media. But I don't see the spelling mistakes, is it perhaps the difference between UK and U.S. spelling that you see?

Originally Posted by LilithNoor

I've tried to reply to this three times now and my butterfingers keep eating my response. Bloody laptop!

Lizajuk, I'm not going to enumerate every spelling error on the site, as unless the owner is a poster on here, she won't benefit from it. My job makes me acutely aware of typoes in professional output, but I'm aware other people would gloss over them.

Newtobellydance- if you're based in Glasgow then Maysa isn't too far away. Why not go check her out in person? Like Aziyade said, inperson classes are always much better than online, and more fun too!

Originally Posted by jahbie

Im really wondering if we are looking at the same page! I agree that the grammar isn't what I was taught at school, but things have changed since then, few people use correct grammar today, even in the media. But I don't see the spelling mistakes, is it perhaps the difference between UK and U.S. spelling that you see?

LilithNoor is from the UK,Jahbie so that's not her point, I assume.
I do agree things have changed regarding grammar and spelling and punctuation. I am sorry to see certain Americanisms creep into our language and for some attractive old oddities of my language disappearing but hey ho as long as we are clear in what we say....
Sometimes those of us who write long and involved posts,messages do not get their point over as some of us glaze over. I have become terribly lazy myself despite having been a teacher and I have got to the point that as long as the message is clear
w(h)ether there is a dropped ' or a color instead of colour..I'm cool!

Originally Posted by Wallowa

Liza,

Just to be perfectly clear.... This is NOT me! the lady in question spells her name Maysa, I am sure you just had a typo there, but I just wanted to clarify things.

Marya

Sorry, Doll...oo er my spelling head has long fallen off.... as has my ability to remember names and faces.

By the way LilithNoor..we are often looking for proofreaders for our association's magazine but it is voluntary. I am serious!
We also look for contributors and although it a primarily an Arabic dance association we have a tribal section and would welcome more gothic contributions