Thread: Review of Hadia’s Teacher Training Levels I & II: Feb/Mar 2008, Montreal, QC

Hadia’s Teacher Training Levels I & II
Feb/Mar 2008, Montreal, QC

Combined, the training for Levels I & II amounted to 40hrs of study with Hadia. Each course was spread out over three intensive days and have been my most insightful and influential Oriental dance training to date.

Hadia’s teacher training focuses on a wealth of topics including safe and effective warm up, technique, and cool down, the breakdown of movements, correct alignment, anatomy, Oriental Rhythms, maqams, Arabic instruments, lesson and course planning, improvisation, finger cymbals, professionalism and ethics.

Under the instruction of Hadia, each student was expected to break down various movements and teach them to other workshop participants. We were actively involved in anatomical discussions and given countless ideas for delivering technique and concepts clearly to our students. Hadia does not just present you with the information in these workshops, but actively involves each student in class participation and discussion.

Many dance forms while beautiful, do cause damage to our bodies over time. Movements are often created based upon esthetic qualities and musical interpretation without concern to what they may be doing to our bodies and Oriental dance is no exception. Hadia explains exactly why certain movements and posture should be altered or avoided and is able to back up these claims with her anatomical studies. The program was a stark eye-opener for the many bad habits I, as well as most dancers have picked up from various instructors over the years. The changes required to apply what she had to teach during these courses will be many, but they are not difficult with adequate understanding.

This training is beneficial to students seeking to increase their own understanding of technique right up to Master Instructors. As teachers, we have a moral obligation to ensure the safety of our students and provide them with quality instruction. As someone with group fitness training with CanFit pro, I can attest that this program is not based on opinion and preference, but on fact. Hadia’s teacher training program ought to be a prerequisite for every belly dance teacher.

Adishakti
Kingston, ON

I second this! I've done level one and two as well and am so grateful that this training is out there. Hadia is an unparalleled instructor in her field and if you get a chance to take this invaluable course - do it! If you don't get a chance - make it happen! ;p

Sounds like this would be good training for non-teachers as well, Adi?

I wonder if Hadia will start allowing her program to be taught by some of her graduates. That'd be nice, as she's always so far away!

Originally Posted by Taj

Sounds like this would be good training for non-teachers as well, Adi?

I wonder if Hadia will start allowing her program to be taught by some of her graduates. That'd be nice, as she's always so far away!

Oh, for sure! I don't think it'd be suitable for beginners, but anyone of the intermediate/advanced level could really benefit from it on many levels. If you plan to take the course, I'd suggest doing her technique course this summer or at the very least getting her DVD set to familiarize yourself with her technique. The teaching course breaks down movements, but if you are not familiar with her technique to begin with, it could potentially eat up valuable time.

It would make you much more aware as a student and who you trust with your body. I'm not sure how to say this tactfully, but most people are harming their students on some level. There are certainly movements I will not be doing anymore or teaching my students!

Dance in general isn't very kind to our bodies - especially long term. But Oriental dance can be made beautiful AND safe. To me, it's a no-brainer! Especially if you're not 20yrs old anymore. This is a dance we can safely do right into our senior years if we take care.

The lovely Maha is helping to organize levels I & II in Toronto this summer. ..g.:

That's right a few fellow Hadia fans and myself are working to bring Hadia here for teacher training courses here in August and Spring 2009. It's really not that hard to bring her if you're interested. You can find her at Belly Dancing -- Hadia's - Welcome to Hadia's Middle Eastern Dance -- Hadia's Belly Dancing.

:)

Originally Posted by Adishakti

There are certainly movements I will not be doing anymore or teaching my students!

Can you elaborate a little on this? Sounds like really important stuff! Which movements?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Can you elaborate a little on this? Sounds like really important stuff! Which movements?

You know those cool-looking tick-tock movements where you angle each hip down alternately? Very back for your lower back and discs. I used to teach mayas with the heel up to start, then graduate to flat-footed to encourage use of abs and obliques to drive the movement rather than the legs. Also very bad for your lower back and hips. I'll be teaching an alternative to the tick-tock thing, and mayas will be taught with the heel up.

Other typical things that I don't do, but TONS of people adapt this bent-knee, pelvic tuck when dancing and it's very bad for your knees and lower back. It creates an imbalance in your quadriceps as the outside muscles gain more strength than the inner muscles and it pulls your kneecap outwards (kneecap is situated on top of these muscles). The pelvic tuck is often described as being done to help support the back, but that's gross ignorance. The back is supposed to be curved and keeping the pelvis tucked crushes the discs and grinds vertebrae together. You do not want to cause permanent damage to those discs, or it'll cause some serious irreversible (and painful) damage.

It's not that you can't tuck in your pelvis, but maintaining any posture too much is going to cause damage and/or discomfort.

Plus this whole - don't let your head move while your lower body does it's thing... also not good on your lower back or hips and it's much prettier to let your upper body dance too. All this jarring that's going on too... terrible whatever joint you're bashing into place.




The anatomy and safety was more thorough than my CanFit Pro training! You aren't forced to memorize muscle and bone names, but rather UNDERSTAND how they work and how they can be applied to dance in safe and effective ways.

Here's an old video of me... at 1:34, I do some of those tick-tock things. Bad, bad.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8TOi_MBlHU]YouTube - Adishakti - El Fen[/ame]
And you know, if I remember right... I was having lower back issues when I was working on that piece which makes total sense to me now.

As for posture, I hate to post an example, particularly since this girl is so adorable, but it's important. Here she talks about protecting the lower back, but this is a very popular posture in belly dance that is detrimental to your body. (The tuck harms, not helps).
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQj3zB5Iyp0]YouTube - The Art of Belly Dancing: Video Lessons for Beginners : Posture in Belly Dancing[/ame]

Most hip movement, within a comfortable range of motion does not harm the back at all. I'm not saying you can't bend the knees or tuck the pelvis... it's just not a posture you should apply as a standard or neutral in dance. Besides that, try tucking like this and bending the knees... hold it... now walk. Does it look pretty? ;-)

Anyhow, I think that's about all I should share... There's tons more, but this will give you an idea. For more info, you've got to take the course. ;-) Hadia does a much better job at describing these things than I do, anyway! And better still, she clearly illustrates and proves her findings.

Does Hadia (or do you) recommend any sources to learn more about the physiology ...any books, videos? It's good to have this info for dancing, and even general movement, exercise, etc.

Originally Posted by Rafiqa_Sadah

Does Hadia (or do you) recommend any sources to learn more about the physiology ...any books, videos? It's good to have this info for dancing, and even general movement, exercise, etc.

I'd have to ask her, but my guess is she'd just say "take the course"
I have a lot of books here from my CanFit Pro training, but unfortunately, a lot of it is outdated. It'd be interesting to see if they've made any updates. (Canada's CanFit rivals the US' Ace certification).

[QUOTE=Adishakti;139201]I'd have to ask her, but my guess is she'd just say "take the course"

I saw *that* coming!! ..l;,

Ah, well, in the meantime I will just have to soak up all I can from Zahrah!

[quote=Rafiqa_Sadah;139207]

Originally Posted by Adishakti

I'd have to ask her, but my guess is she'd just say "take the course"

I saw *that* coming!! ..l;,

Ah, well, in the meantime I will just have to soak up all I can from Zahrah!

..l;, Yeah, I can totally see her saying that as a first response, but I will ask her anyway.

Zahrah is your teacher? Lucky girl!!!! Such a sweetie and a very talented dancer, indeed!

Yep. I take classes with both her and Sabra; and I know my technique education has been lacking with previous teachers.

Thank you for sharing! I was familiar with those, EXCEPT for the mayas with heels down. (some of it I learned from Hadia in the first place!) Interesting about the mayas.

I teach soft knees & a 'neutral' pelvis, not fully tucked but not relaxed all the way back either. I wonder whether that's within the range of what she meant?

I get students who've worked with videos coming in with that bent-knees, hard-tucked pelvic posture -- ugh. But to a noob, how could their local small-town instructor POSSIBLY know better than Suzy Famous-Tassles who's produced a DVD and is therefore a World-Renowned Expert???

Poop. I *like* doing those tick-tock hips. But you're right--they don't *feel* good.

Maybe just this one dance.

Originally Posted by Adishakti

You know those cool-looking tick-tock movements where you angle each hip down alternately? Very back for your lower back and discs.

Are you saying that weighted down hips in general are bad? As in Souhair Zaki's signature movement? Because that takes out a huge chunk of the modern Egyptian movement vocabulary.

Sedonia

Originally Posted by Adishakti

The lovely Maha is helping to organize levels I & II in Toronto this summer. ..g.:

I hope this wont overlap Ahlan Cairo Nights in Dallas. I think I'd really like to attend, but I promised myself Ahlan this year.

Originally Posted by ssipes

Are you saying that weighted down hips in general are bad? As in Souhair Zaki's signature movement? Because that takes out a huge chunk of the modern Egyptian movement vocabulary.

Sedonia

*blows cobwebs and thick dust off a memory*

Hadia taught about these when she was in St. Louis last. I seem to recall that she DID show us a safe way to execute the movement, though she said the way it's often taught in the US is unsafe. Wish I could remember...

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Thank you for sharing! I was familiar with those, EXCEPT for the mayas with heels down. (some of it I learned from Hadia in the first place!) Interesting about the mayas.

Originally Posted by ssipes

Are you saying that weighted down hips in general are bad? As in Souhair Zaki's signature movement? Because that takes out a huge chunk of the modern Egyptian movement vocabulary.

Sedonia

The one thing I truly love about Hadia is that she admits that she's still learning and changing things. I took Level 1 with her in Victoria BC in Aug.07 and Level 2 in Calgary in Oct/Nov07. She told us that there were things she used to teach and now she does not anymore and always explains why. I will try to dig up some of my notes and add more to this ;)

Also, regarding the vocab...The point Hadia made was that so many times, there is a language barrier between the instructor and the student. Specifically if the instructor is from Egypt or wherever, was brought up dancing, and does not speak english; the movement is in their body and they can't always convert that to words. So, what has happened, is that we see with our EYES and emulate what is happening without feeling it in our body instead. Hence, this awful owie tick tock movement. Because the instructor can't explain what she is doing in a way that we will explain, we are shown and we do the best we can...even if it HURTS!

Once again, I do have the explanation on how to do that somewhere, I just have to find it ;)

Hope that helps!

Hi Anya,

I look forward to your posted notes of what she said about the tick tock movement. I took notes during my level 1 training with her, but did not get notes about that. From the feedback from my students about those tick tocks or vertical down hip movements it hasn't been hurting them to do it, so I think I am teaching it safely and effectively.

The mayas on the other hand I have been teaching the same way Adi was graduating them to flat foot. It is interesting because so many of them found it easier to do mayas with the heel lifted and begged me to let them do it that way! I took level 1, 2 years ago, and don't think I took all the notes I needed so was teaching mayas the way I was taught them. One day I went into an intermediate class for myself and started doing mayas with lifted heels and the teacher said that that was one way of doing them, but it was actually the lebanese way, but that the egyptian was was with heels down.

But now that I have just tried it both ways and I think about the spinal cord in all of this, I can see how the damage can be done by doing with mayas heel down. I can feel my spine crunching..not good. So then with heels up i tried it again and it feels more natural and you only go as far as your range of motion will let you and its ok.

All that said, now that I've done level 1 and will be doing level 2 in the summer, and with what knowledge I've already got, what does a person who is both an intermediate/advanced student and a teacher do when they are in a class where the person teaching is doing things that are harmful to the body? Does one just go along with it and do what the teacher wants, or does a person do what they know to be better for their body? And if you do what you know is better for you and the teacher comes and "corrects" it, what then? Do you explain to them why you are doing what you are doing, or what? Any belly dance classes I've been taking for my further development, and in my flamenco classes there are constantly things that I really shouldn't be doing......like the warm up in flamenco the teacher starts with major stretching! We haven't even done any other movements to warm, loosen, or lubricate our muscles and joints, I really want to say something so she can change this, but don't know if its appropriate too. And with belly dance, well there are things from week to week that I think to myself, oh this is going to kill my back etc.

Oooh, Caliana, those are tough questions -- probably worthy of a spinoff thread.

I taught a special-topic Saturday class for another instructor not too long ago and was approached by a student before class who said 'will you please make sure to stretch us out before we get started? I feel tight if I don't stretch and don't want to get hurt." I *think* this particular student comes from a classical dance background. No way was I going to convince her that her lifetime of 'start-with-stretch' training wasn't the best route.

Looking back, I wish I'd said "I like to warm up the body with simple technique-based movements rather than stretching cold muscles. If you feel that your body needs something different, you're more than welcome to use that area over there to give yourself whatever you need before class."

But that's a student. You'd have to have a good mutual-respect relationship going on with your instructor before you could correct her teaching style -- and even then, there's no graceful way to do it in class. You can probably say 'Oh, I'm sorry, it hurts me to do it that way and Hadia suggested I do it this way instead.' That might get you a personal reprieve.

I understand the desire to 'save' all the other students, but I don't see an effective way to do it. Maybe you could pick ONE very worst thing and talk to the instructor quietly after class one day, saying 'what do you think of this info I got from Hadia, I'm not sure how to incorporate this in my teaching" That approach would allow you share the info from Hadia while still treating the instructor as a teacher rather than reducing her to pupil.

Lauren,

Thanks! That sounds great already...I will remember this.
As for the flamenco teacher, we have a good relationship, so I think it may go over well if I approach her and word it correctly.
..g.:

Originally Posted by ssipes

Are you saying that weighted down hips in general are bad? As in Souhair Zaki's signature movement? Because that takes out a huge chunk of the modern Egyptian movement vocabulary.

Sedonia

I'm not sure what you mean about weighted down hips, but just because the pros do it, doesn't mean we have to do it. (ie. damaging our bodies). There are plenty of things we can do to maintain authenticity and a healthy body.

She does show an alternative to the tick-tock thing that's really even cooler! (And looks closer to Souhair's signature movement)

If a dancer chooses to do a movement irregardless of concern for her body, then fine... but as a teacher, I don't think we should be drilling our students with things we know can cause harm.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I teach soft knees & a 'neutral' pelvis, not fully tucked but not relaxed all the way back either. I wonder whether that's within the range of what she meant?

It's hard to tell without seeing the posture, Lauren...

Her advice for proper alignment is with weight distributed evenly on the arch of your feet, and lining up the following points... Center of ear, center of shoulder, top and side of hip, midpoint of knee and center of ankle. Basically regular, good posture.

Take the course if you can, Lauren... If anyone would appreciate it, it'd be you - for sure!

Originally Posted by Caliana_flame

And if you do what you know is better for you and the teacher comes and "corrects" it, what then? Do you explain to them why you are doing what you are doing, or what? Any belly dance classes I've been taking for my further development, and in my flamenco classes there are constantly things that I really shouldn't be doing......like the warm up in flamenco the teacher starts with major stretching! We haven't even done any other movements to warm, loosen, or lubricate our muscles and joints, I really want to say something so she can change this, but don't know if its appropriate too. And with belly dance, well there are things from week to week that I think to myself, oh this is going to kill my back etc.

I'm with Lauren on this one. I don't think you should ever challenge your teacher in class. One thing i've done in this situation is just say "oh I have an injury so I need to modify the movement this way to be comfortable". Um, had to use that one when the teacher (a well respected and worshiped one in the community) decided to teach us backbends - scary! Then after class I think it's ok to ask questions about her technique and mention that you had taken this course for bellydance with Hadia and she suggested this to you.

I didn't go back to that bellydance class again.

The suhair zaki thing is an important one and Hadia has a safe approach to that one that looks better and more like how Zaki did them, as Adi mentioned. The danger in this move at worst is sciatica, yep sciatica. I cringe when I see this move taught or performed incorrectly.

Since getting this training and teaching it in turn to my students - they really appreciate it. I'll show them the arm undulations aka "snake arms" the way I was originally taught (after showing them the good way) and say "feel that grinding? Not good, right?". They know they're getting good information and are more satisfied.

I really love this artform and I plan on being an elderly lady planning senior hafla's in my retirement home, lol so I'm happy to learn to move in a way that I love knowing the full benefits of it to my body.

thank you too Maha.

Up to now i have not said anything to any teacher, so at least now i would know how to approach this better.

Yeah backbends are scary! still trying to experiment with that in a more safe yet effective way.

Another interesting thing is that for those of us who had begun our belly dance training and/or teaching before knowing about Hadia's course, its really about unlearning and relearning alot of things we were taught, whereas, at least we can now teach completley new people the safer way and they hopefully won't have to relearn anything.

And for me anyways, I think I can still improve my teaching techniques, I think by the end of Hadia's certification I will have enough knowledge to work with and continue to find new ways to do things. My anatomy background through Nursing also helps this cause.

Originally Posted by Adishakti

It's hard to tell without seeing the posture, Lauren...

Her advice for proper alignment is with weight distributed evenly on the arch of your feet, and lining up the following points... Center of ear, center of shoulder, top and side of hip, midpoint of knee and center of ankle. Basically regular, good posture.

Take the course if you can, Lauren... If anyone would appreciate it, it'd be you - for sure!

And from what I got...there is NO such thing as "basic belly dance posture" a term that became really popular over the last couple of years with a certain group of dancers. Hadia prefers the word alignment to posture...this is because as soon as we say posture, people stand as tall and erect as they possibly can. Thus eliminating the muscles we need for our movements. And really, when you dance, sometimes your pelvis is out, sometimes it's in, sometimes your knee's have a bend to them, other times they're straight...which is where Adi's explanation comes in.

Even though I already took 1 and 2 I'm going to try to get together enough $$$ to go back and do them again in Toronto in August before I head to Mexico to do level 3 (might as well go for a vacation too!) As there is just SO much information to digest and I'm a firm believer in repetition!

Originally Posted by Adishakti

Take the course if you can, Lauren... If anyone would appreciate it, it'd be you - for sure!

LOL. I know you're right! I've only taken one weekend of workshops with Hadia, but I knew right away we had a lot in common.

Thanks for the 411 regarding the video tapes. Hadia recommended them, and ive been hemming and hawing. It looks like it will help before she comes here in June for the teacher training workshop (shameless plug Home - chicagomecda.com) :)

the 4 dvd set will be some of the BEST $$$ you invest! she also has some awesome deals going on...which saves you LOTS of money and gets you more dvd's!