Thread: Oriental Dance: Egypt's Shameful Profession

For the last few months, I've been busily working on a new lecture/video presentation. The title is "Oriental Dance: Egypt's Shameful Profession". It'll be making its debut at the International Bellydance Conference of Canada, but I'm also interested in taking it on the road to present at belly dance festivals, workshops, etc.

You could kind of describe this presentation as bringing to life the book A Trade Like Any Other.

Here is the description:


The career of professional Oriental dancer is one of the most shameful ways a person can earn a living in Egypt. Dancers are considered synonymous with prostitutes because they use their bodies to make money.

Many Egyptian movies have been made over the years depicting dancers as central characters. Although some paint an idealistic picture, others reflect the reality that dancers face, and also shape that reality by creating beliefs about dancers in the minds of the public.

This presentation uses a combination of lecture and video to explore the topic.

It relies on dialogue scenes with English subtitles from Egyptian movies featuring dancers, their admirers, and their detractors to demonstrate the dark side of what it's like to be a dancer in Egypt.

It shows dancers drinking and flirting with customers, wedding guests mocking the dancer, and more.

The accompanying lecture links these fictitious movie scenes with factual background, revealing the real-life affair a movie's writer had with a dancer, the banning of a film from Egyptian television due to its content, or a situation where a scene in a movie was paralleled by an actual news story.

Beyond what the above description says, here are a few more details...

I'll be using clips from at least 7 different movies. As noted above, most of these are dialogue scenes, NOT dance scenes, but I do have a few dance scenes sprinkled in to illustrate certain key points.

The presentation length at the Int'l Bellydance Conference of Canada will be 90 minutes.

Awesome! I wish I were in the area for this!
I think it's such a weird analogy Egyptians use that dancers are prostitutes because they use their bodies to make money. So.....are bricklayers and grave diggers and construction workers and all other people who "use their bodies to make money" also prostitutes?

Originally Posted by SummerSahar

Awesome! I wish I were in the area for this!
I think it's such a weird analogy Egyptians use that dancers are prostitutes because they use their bodies to make money. So.....are bricklayers and grave diggers and construction workers and all other people who "use their bodies to make money" also prostitutes?

I suppose using bodies, brains, looks for cash is what we most of us do unless we are Royal or a Kennedy or Hilton or whatever.
I don't have this superior feeling towards ladies of the night...I have much more distain for girls who give it away for nothing!

I agree with Summer Sahar - sounds like this will be a GREAT presentation, and wish I could be there!

Originally Posted by SummerSahar

Awesome! I wish I were in the area for this!
I think it's such a weird analogy Egyptians use that dancers are prostitutes because they use their bodies to make money. So.....are bricklayers and grave diggers and construction workers and all other people who "use their bodies to make money" also prostitutes?

Well, maybe I should have worded it as, "use their bodies to provide pleasure to men who are not part of their own family".

But remember, I'd be happy to take this on the road, so if you know of a belly dance event organizer who would be willing to offer this as part of a festival, you might suggest that they bring me out there for it!

Originally Posted by *Shira*

For the last few months, I've been busily working on a new lecture/video presentation. The title is "Oriental Dance: Egypt's Shameful Profession". It'll be making its debut at the International Bellydance Conference of Canada, but I'm also interested in taking it on the road to present at belly dance festivals, workshops, etc.

You could kind of describe this presentation as bringing to life the book A Trade Like Any Other.

Here is the description:


The career of professional Oriental dancer is one of the most shameful ways a person can earn a living in Egypt. Dancers are considered synonymous with prostitutes because they use their bodies to make money.

Many Egyptian movies have been made over the years depicting dancers as central characters. Although some paint an idealistic picture, others reflect the reality that dancers face, and also shape that reality by creating beliefs about dancers in the minds of the public.

This presentation uses a combination of lecture and video to explore the topic.

It relies on dialogue scenes with English subtitles from Egyptian movies featuring dancers, their admirers, and their detractors to demonstrate the dark side of what it's like to be a dancer in Egypt.

It shows dancers drinking and flirting with customers, wedding guests mocking the dancer, and more.

The accompanying lecture links these fictitious movie scenes with factual background, revealing the real-life affair a movie's writer had with a dancer, the banning of a film from Egyptian television due to its content, or a situation where a scene in a movie was paralleled by an actual news story.

Beyond what the above description says, here are a few more details...

I'll be using clips from at least 7 different movies. As noted above, most of these are dialogue scenes, NOT dance scenes, but I do have a few dance scenes sprinkled in to illustrate certain key points.

The presentation length at the Int'l Bellydance Conference of Canada will be 90 minutes.

Shira, could you please PM me with cost etc. for the UK.
Thanks, Caroline

I sure hope this comes somewhere near me. I would LOVE to attend!

it sounds awesome. My Mom wants to take a trip to Toronto next month. I'm thinking maybe i'll go back during the IBCC. I'd love to see it.

Is there a way to pay for only portions of the conference however? All the literature i've seen on it only menitons a total price.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

it sounds awesome. My Mom wants to take a trip to Toronto next month. I'm thinking maybe i'll go back during the IBCC. I'd love to see it.

Is there a way to pay for only portions of the conference however? All the literature i've seen on it only menitons a total price.

It looks like they're selling a limited number of seminar room day passes for $35 each. Here's the link: Pricing

I'm not sure which day they intend to have me do my presentation. Since I'm attending the entire conference, I haven't worried too much about that just yet! But if you contact Arabesque Dance Academy in Toronto, I'm sure either Mel or Jennifer could tell you that.

thanks Shira. Now she says she's not going until the summer.

It's so great that you're doing that lecture. It seems like information is getting to be more important in the community. I'm really excited about it.

I think it's such a weird analogy Egyptians use that dancers are prostitutes because they use their bodies to make money. So.....are bricklayers and grave diggers and construction workers and all other people who "use their bodies to make money" also prostitutes?

Well, you also have to remember that in Muslim constructions, women's bodies are innately exciting whereas men's bodies are just instruments for working with and therefore not such a big deal. As a result of this and other discourses, women are actually quite powerful in a way because men are scared ****less of them and the wild voracious sexuality they might have. All the enclosure stuff is simultaneously to protect poor, weak, easily seduced women from men, who will not be able to control themselves around them, and to protect men from the out of control lusts they experience around women that will take them away from God. Especially if the women are the kind they write about in Arabic erotic discourses, ie insatiable and likely to run off with black men and donkeys due to their voracious desire for The Mighty Penis, and to destroy the fabric of society with their evil anarchic sex-driven intelligence.

I'm not making this up. Check out Fatna Sabbah.

it always comes back to a big black penis. if only it was really true.

By the way, if anyone wants to bring either this or one of my other lecture/video workshops (Dance in Egyptian Cinema and Egypt's Oriental Dance: Evolution of an Art Form) to your own city, you may be able to get help funding it through a humanities grant from your local city or state government. Humanities grants are awarded to fund historical and cultural types of events.

Shira,

Do you record your presentations on DVD? If you have a copyright agreement, I'd love to purchase some, unless these are all private and based upon attending the actual presentation. Unfortunately, I can't make it up to Canada this year because I need to go to South America.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Well, you also have to remember that in Muslim constructions, women's bodies are innately exciting whereas men's bodies are just instruments for working with and therefore not such a big deal. As a result of this and other discourses, women are actually quite powerful in a way because men are scared ****less of them and the wild voracious sexuality they might have. All the enclosure stuff is simultaneously to protect poor, weak, easily seduced women from men, who will not be able to control themselves around them, and to protect men from the out of control lusts they experience around women that will take them away from God. Especially if the women are the kind they write about in Arabic erotic discourses, ie insatiable and likely to run off with black men and donkeys due to their voracious desire for The Mighty Penis, and to destroy the fabric of society with their evil anarchic sex-driven intelligence.

I'm not making this up. Check out Fatna Sabbah.

Interesting. I read this in one of my Women's Studies books. This is so true. I read another book based on this reasoning.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

it always comes back to a big black penis. if only it was really true.

..l;, ..l;,

Originally Posted by Bellydancefanatic

Do you record your presentations on DVD? If you have a copyright agreement, I'd love to purchase some, unless these are all private and based upon attending the actual presentation.

At this time, it's necessary to attend the actual presentation.

I've had a number of inquiries from people who can't attend a live presentation but would like to buy a DVD, so it's something I'm starting to think about. It'll be a long time before I get to that point, though. In addition to sorting out how the copyright legal issues of a for-sale DVD would work, I'd have to completely revise the way the clips are formatted - presenting something in a live environment where people can ask interactive questions is entirely different from presenting it in a documentary format. It's an interesting challenge, and possibly worth doing (if there's enough interest), but the effort to do it wouldn't be trivial. Still, with every project I become more proficient at using the production software, which brings me a step closer to being able to do it myself without having to hire it out.

Very interesting! The Bellydancers of Cairo documentary touches on this, but it sounds like your presentation will go much more in-depth. This is an area that really interests me; we don't do festivals in my area but if there's a DVD that becomes available I think it would be a big seller

Sounds like alot of work went into your project.
Congrats on the end product and I hope it goes well.
Have you talked with any of the current "stars" to get their take on the conditions such as the ones who are now making money by doing workshops in the US and such? Im thinking ladies like Aida Noor, Samassem. Mona Said?
Maybe even Sahrah who worked in Egypt for many years?
I think you will find a range of experiences.
Also, dancers associated with some of the better known groups that tour may have an all together different insight too.

Sounds like it will be a fantastic lecture. I would gladly buy videos/DVDs of such lectures. If you ever get to Australia, I would definitely fly to here any lectures you gave.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

At this time, it's necessary to attend the actual presentation.

I've had a number of inquiries from people who can't attend a live presentation but would like to buy a DVD, so it's something I'm starting to think about. It'll be a long time before I get to that point, though. In addition to sorting out how the copyright legal issues of a for-sale DVD would work, I'd have to completely revise the way the clips are formatted - presenting something in a live environment where people can ask interactive questions is entirely different from presenting it in a documentary format. It's an interesting challenge, and possibly worth doing (if there's enough interest), but the effort to do it wouldn't be trivial. Still, with every project I become more proficient at using the production software, which brings me a step closer to being able to do it myself without having to hire it out.

Come to D.C. then! ..l;,

Thanks for getting back to me! I hope one day you do decide to do it. Sounds really interesting.

That is very cool Shira. If you get this to WA I would love to see it (and meet you perchance). Very good presentation.

If I saw this listed at a show as a workshop option, I would so go to it! Good luck!..g.:

shira, what's the best way to contact you? I'd like to get some more information on cost, venue requirements and your needs regarding transportation and lodging and all that. :) you can pm me or email me at elisagamal@gmail.com

Originally Posted by elisagamal

shira, what's the best way to contact you? I'd like to get some more information on cost, venue requirements and your needs regarding transportation and lodging and all that. :) you can pm me or email me at elisagamal@gmail.com

What elisagamal wrote, except to me! pm or email to casbahdance@juno.com.
Thanks so much in advance!

Deborah

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Well, you also have to remember that in Muslim constructions, women's bodies are innately exciting whereas men's bodies are just instruments for working with and therefore not such a big deal.

Ha! Shows what they know!
*ponders watching The Indian Runner tonight for some hot naked Viggo Mortensen...yeah, I could work with that instrument!*..g.:

--Laura

I'm bummed that I have to decide between Aida Nour workshop or Shira's lecture at the IBCC. But it's wonderful to have such great options.

If you're planning to attend my presentation at the International Bellydance Conference of Canada, here are some articles you may find helpful to read before you go. They're relevant to the movie clips I'll be showing and the topics I'll be discussing.

There's no requirement, of course, to do the pre-reading. But if you have a chance to do it, you may find that it gives you a head start!


Scroll w-a-y down to the bottom to Sabriye's article titled "Working in the Middle East": Suhaila Unveiled, April 1, 2007

"Making It Unpalatable": weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/816/sc21.htm

"An Hour for God and an Hour for the Heart": "An hour for God and an hour for the heart" Intro

This sounds fascinationg! If you do not present this in my area, I would love to see a DVD of your presentation should you decide to make one at some point!

Lisa