Thread: Talk to me about stick/cane

So by popular request my improvers'/performance class has started working on a stick piece. I learned the very basics of stick when I was a real baby belly (including some tatib) so I sort of understand the broad concepts even if I'm very out of practice on the basics.

Still, all this got me thinking about how little I really know about stick work.
I mean I understand that it is usually only done to rhythms like saidi and shabi (as opposed to a big Oum Kalsoum ballad, for example) and that it has, generally speaking, a proud/celebratory overtone.

However, I was wondering, if its ok to dance with a stick to something with the 'right rhythm' but subdued lyrics? What are the big dos and don'ts with this particular prop?

Hi Khadyia,
As I am sure you know its hard to define a line between "right" and "wrong" with this dance. So many people including the so called experts are always pushing the envelope! That being said, take this as Jack Sparrow would say as "guidelines"! :-) The thing that uniquely identifies stick or tahtib is not just the saidi rhythm but the instrument played over the top of it which is typically the Mizmar and sometimes the Mijwiz or Rabbabah. Now many peices of music can have this kind of flavor and when you say subdued lyrics I have heard pop pieces that would be great with cane and those definitly have lyrics to them! Plus when you get into the earthy folk songs there typically is heavy, almost chanting kind of lyrics sometimes. The music should really feel bouncy, thats how Saidi resonates in me! :-)
THe key is listen to the music for saidi then listen for the mizmar.
I am what they call a "purist". In doing any folk dance its important to keep 3 things 1. character 2. costume line 3. music!
Hope that helps!! :-)
xoxo,
-NJ

Many dancers in the US perform cane to Lebanese depke music.

okay, I just taught a workshop on this and did some research.

In a nutshell, it appears that about every Middle Eastern Culture that had farmers and shepards had dances with sticks. The sticks, staffs or canes were used to walk, herd animals, fight off animals from the herds, knock fruit off of trees, fight with etc. The tahtib refers to the Saidi man's ritual/dance/fight where they basically fight with the sticks with a lot of bravado and showing off. watch this:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfukcTjWJyA&feature=PlayList&p=7AD789122A0 3584E&index=2]YouTube - Tahtib[/ame]

The Saidi culture is traditionally quite conservative and the women didn't really dance in public, just for themselves, but it is assumed and understood, that when the women would get together in private they would dance and that would include paradying their men, maybe dancing with sticks, etc. Many belly dancers draw from this movement tradition and use men's moves and cute them up and make them more womanly and use Saidi music, mixing it with women's Saidi moves as well.

However, not all stick dances are Saidi, as noted above. Some Egyptian baladi is danced with sticks or canes and it doesn't necessarily draw from the Saidi tradition. It could be that the bint al balad just grabbed a cane and wanted to show off her skill with it while she was dancing. You will often see cane used in a baladi taksim for example or with other baladi numbers. As far as I know there is no clearly defined lines in the women's dancing between Saidi and Baladi, the music can sound similar and they will use a lot of the same movements, but Saidi is sort of Baladi, the Baladi of the Said. But not all Baladi is Saidi.

Canes are used also by Lebanese dancers and they would use Debke music instead of Saidi music, like Norma mentioned above. This does come from Lebanese tradition. It isn't just a US thing.

You will find cane dances done to music with and without lyrics. Hints for what my be appropriate? Something good to swing a cane to, I like a really heavy earthy energy whether the beat be a Saidi beat, a masmoudi soghier, a falahi or a debke beat. Older traditional instruments are pretty common accross the board, like mizmar or mizwij, tabl baladi, tabla, rebaba, etc.

I think I found another article about it recently here as well:

Gamila shares her knowledge of Niles Dances with the Gilded Serpent

there are threads about it on bhuz here:
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...tory-cane.html
Bhuz Forum - Is this true? Women's stick dance origin
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...-question.html
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...ce-advice.html

Here is my youtube playlist of Tahtib, Saidi and baladi assaya and some Lebanese assaya:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Here is Badriya's youtube playlist of mostly ladies doing assaya of various persuasions:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

there is more about Saidi on Mohamed Shahin's site here:

Mohamed Shahin Native Egyptian Master Instructor, Performer & Choreographer of Egyptian Dance

I hope that helps.

Previous music thread: http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...aya-dance.html

Also consider getting Nourhan Sharif's Assaya video, it's one of the best out there for authentic Saidi steps & stick technique. Your students look to you as an expert on the topic, so it's really important to educate yourself on the steps, the cane movements, the proper (safe for your carpal tunnel) techniques etc.

Originally Posted by kiyaana

Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. -Oscar Wilde

OMG, I LOVE this quote! ..l;,

I think Lubna Emam also has a DVD out about cane. You can also get some ideas and see what sort of moves are "typical" by watching youtube videos of Fifi with her cane and a few other dancers... Orit has a really cute cane video up (and I want that green beledi dress) and there are many others too.

It's a lot of fun to learn... my cane is my absolute favorite thing to dance with.

Thanks everyone for the great pointers! Lots of reading/viewing listening material to get my teeth into here.

Just to clarify though, I don't teach, I'm writing as a curious and probably over keen dance student.

Thanks again!

OH, I'm sorry, I misunderstood & thought you were TEACHING the class! That had me a tad worried & thinking you needed to cram a BUNCH.

I love curious & over keen dance students. Here's what I know.

The stick or cane (aka Assaya) is a common prop in many folk dances for men and some for women, but when it's done by bellydancers it's usually done in one of three contexts:

1) Saiidi, the best-known & most widely performed Assaya dance. This is done to Saiidi music (Said means upper, or Southern, Egypt, a rural area for the most part). The Saiidi beat is widely used in pop music and doesn't necessarily signify Saiidi music -- as indicated above, Saiidi music is recognized by the instrumentation more than the rhythm. Bouncy steps, footwork and shoulder movements are specifically drawn from the men's stick dance, and the attitude is one of mocking the boys' martial arts styling. This dance seems to have been brought to the stage by Mahmoud Reda and there's some question as to whether Saiidi women actually dance with canes in their home villages or whether it's strictly a men's dance adapted for women for the stage by Reda.

Beledi Cane: I know so little about this that I should only mention it exists. I learned about it on Bhuz, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable can fill in the blanks.

Lebanese cane: Done to Lebanese music (from the notes above, I'm guessing debke?? but don't quote me on that) with a lighter, thinner cane. Don't know much about this one either.

*******

One thing that confuses people: Not all Saiidi dancing is Assaya. Not all Assaya dancing is Saiidi. But it's most common to see the two together in the bellydance world.

What lauren & shems said, and also it really is worth searching the previous threads, and even Old Bhuz (ads.bhuz.com) for previous discussions on this. I just wanted to add, re. Lebanese dance with the cane, that SuhaDeeb did post something about this on one of the recent threads about different styles of BD.

I've seen at least one Lebanese dancer (Howaida Hashem) use even bedouin music by Samira Tawfeek. However, Lebanese dancers usually don't use Saidi music unless they are doing a special tableau.

here's another article on Saiidi on the Guilded Serpent:

Keti tells of the Saiidi Band she produced a DVD of for the Gilded Serpent

Originally Posted by norma

Many dancers in the US perform cane to Lebanese depke music.

lol so the musicians I work with always play Ala Ein Moulaitein which is really an old debke song though used mostly now by US dancers for cane. And one day this couple started to get up and debke during my show when the song came on, and I had my stick out and everything! The owner sort of pulled them aside and whispered in their ear that this wasn't the time, that the debke was later. It was pretty funny.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Also consider getting Nourhan Sharif's Assaya video, it's one of the best out there for authentic Saidi steps & stick technique. Your students look to you as an expert on the topic, so it's really important to educate yourself on the steps, the cane movements, the proper (safe for your carpal tunnel) techniques etc.

I have danced with canes for over 20 yrs and recently got this video. It is a really good video, with lots of good basic info presented in an easy to understand way. I highly recommend it. It is "free" vhs, but costs $5 to ship.

The Lebanese don't do as much cutsie playful steps with the cane like the Egyptian (female) They twirl that puppy as fast as they can and then crack it on the ground hard!! Watch Nadia Gamal, Nabila Matwalah if that cane ever got loose they would kill someone with it!!!!