Thread: Want to do modern Turkish???

Basically, I've been inspired by my recent trip to Istanbul and now I want to explore Turkish dancing. Not so much the Roma or Gypsy-type stuff but the modern/pop Turkish or Oriental Turkish. I have a brand new Turkish costume and a great CD to dance to...UM, but I've never done a single bit of Turkish dancing in my life.

How do I get started? There are no teachers here at the moment to teach me.

I also wanted to know what the best way is to transition from American or Egyptian styles to Turkish. Or does it even really matter? Like what if I did, for example, an improvisational piece to Turkish music in a Turkish costume...what would make it Turkish...? Thought, hints, help, ideas...

This is a very, very good question.

When I watch Artemis dance, for example, I see that the raw movement base is partially, but not fully overlapping with Egyptian. Of those movements that are used in both, it seems to me they are used extraordinarily differently -- strung together differently, used differently with the music. I can't wrap my brain around Turkish music. Few of the abstract or mathematical patterns that I hear and feel in Arabic music seem to apply to Turkish. I feel like Egyptian music is a language I understand, whereas Turkish is all, er, Greek to me.

IMO, Turkish is the most difficult ethnic style to learn because the resources are so limited. There are extraordinarily few teachers who really teach Turkish (as opposed to saying they teach Turkish). I mean, who knows good Turkish Oriental? There is Artemis, and Eva, and Dalia, and I understand a woman named Jennet who is/was in Salt Lake City, and who else? Two on the east coast, two in the mountain west. If you don't have sufficient access to these people how do you learn?

Hours of studying videography and just soaking in the subtle nuances of movement and body language were an important resource for me in learning Egyptian. Yet, there is not near the videography of traditional Turkish dancers as there is Egyptian or Lebanese. Much of the Turkish videography available to us is sleazy bad dancing, or Turkish dancers imitating Egyptian dancers, or Turkish dancers ripping off bdss choreographies. Is there even any true Turkish dance left, or has it been eclipsed by the other styles?

I would say the best thing to do is take privates and workshops with the known good turkish teachers, cobble together a videography to study (Artemis lists the good Turkish dancers on her site), and try to soak in the essence of what they are doing. And figure out what constitutes Turkish Oriental music (some of it is Arabic, Artemis says) and listen to that.

Wanna hear something strange? At a performance recently, a girl told me she was Turkish, then told me my style was "very Turkish". I have no idea what the heck she was talking about. I danced Egyptian style to very Egyptian music, in an Egyptian costume. I think she must have just meant she liked my dance.

Yes, actually when people offer Turkish dance classes it's often Turkish Roma dance.
Hello, what about Turkish nightclub style?

I filmed 4 dancers at Kervansaray (including Asena) and I know that video nearly by heart, I have watched it so many times
But I wouldn't say this makes me an expert. Yet I like to use some of the movements and combinations I picked up from them.
I also have an older video around somewhere that I will study sometimes.

Most dance to Egyptian music nowadays.... Asena dances to her own music that you can also get on her CDs. So don't be afraid of Turkish music, if in doubt, use an Egyptian CD. They do it too.

MEISSOUN

The owner of the turkish resturant I dance at LOVES Sonia, and Isadora---I thought it was strange since he is turkish....and they are NOT

When I was in Istanbul and went to the belly dance show at the Galata tower, I noticed that the dancers used mostly arabic music, but it was played fast as hell. Also they flick their arms and hands a lot more...at least these women did. I also noticed a lot of fast spins. Basically it reminded me of Egyptian dance on speed... ;)

There is a teacher here in my area who has studied Turkish Oriental dance for many years. She goes to Turkey every few years to study. I was really excited about being her student. Then she just up and dropped classes one day and hasn't really been around since then. :( I guess I could take private lessons from her, but it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth that she would just drop all of her students like that.

Hi Andalee,
you did a beautiful job at Sadiya's hafla the other night btw!!! It's nice to hear Turkish music instead of the same old stuff (which I dance to just like all the rest....)
anyways, I don't know if I'm giving you info you already know, but yeah. basically dance like you're on speed. lots of reverse body wave/pops, crazy aggressive arms...what would really make your dancing more Turkish in my honest opinion, would be to dance to the music rather than the emotions the music produces inside you, as Egyptian dancers do. Add a bold level of anti-finesse, wild spastic movements, and a strong knowledge that you are hella sexy and you know the audience knows it. Dancing in heels could help.
Some great examples on YouTube: Didem, Asena, Elcin, anything on IBO Show, Tanyeli, Eylul, Pinar Elice....and check out the American Idol-style show for bellydance, Oryantal Star.
Hope that helps!

Thanks Yonca...If you've studied Turkish dance, I'd be interested in getting together sometime to see what you can teach me. ;)

PS You were wonderful at the show too. Definatley a great performance to end the night with!

OK, she does "traditional" Turkish -- but when I watch all I see is fantastic Turkish dancing that can be placed in any setting. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZyjIoXyJXQ"]Here[/ame] This is Elizabeth Strong in just black pants and top at Tribal Fest (there is another video of the second half).

Its not particularly easy to find any kind of Turkish tuition here in the UK either. I've recently got quite into the music and I've been trying to broaden my dance knowledge base to go with it, especially as the more I watch this style the more it 'speaks' to me.

I'd love to learn more about Turkish Roma style but at the moment I'm having to content myself with the wisdom of Bhuz, Artemis' wonderful DVD and the occasional workshop (when I can track one down).

Elizabeth's video was just WOW !!!!

I know, isn't she wonderful? She actually has many beautiful costumes, I think that was a spur of the moment thing or an exhibition. I encourage everyone to see her or take a workshop if she ever shows up in your town! (she's just back from a European tour).

alexandriabellydancer.com

I don't know if you can make it to Chicago next month but Natasha is teaching Turkish chiftitelli. I'm doing American Greek Caberet which can also be very fast and is a mixture of Turkish, Egyptian, American Caberet, etc.

Oh and I've noticed as well that the best known Turkish dancers dance Egyptian. I have a video with Princess Banu one of the most famous Turkish dancers and her style is strictly Egyptian. She was in this video with a bunch of sleazy, sleazy girls who can't even be called dancers. I haven't seen too much of Artemis or Didem but I think there style is also mostly based on Egyptian. I don't know too much about Turkish style other than the 9/8 karsilama and chiftitelli. I believe they use finger cymbals and veil more than yus see in Egyptian style. The video of Elizabeth strong is the first I've seen of someone dancing to the really old fashioned sounding Turkish music. I wouldn't call that modern though???? I'd like to know what you mean and explain what you saw when you went to Turkey that you would call it modern Turkish?

Eva Czernik may be considered more turkish style. [ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=MQiY97MX7KA]YouTube - Eva Cernik veil[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vFGh83m4r0]YouTube - Nesrin Topkapı - (1981/82 Yılbaşı)[/ame]

I almost forgot about Nesrin. Old school Turkish dancer. Arabic music!!!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8s2OT5D4w8&feature=related]YouTube - NESRÄ°N TOPKAPI - (79 YILBAÅžI)[/ame]

Hah! I see they actually have several of Princess Banu clips posted now.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJf3umj72U&feature=related]YouTube - Prenses Banu Oryantal[/ame]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=LsJUAYHKfNU

Turkish danse oryental posters: Princess Banu

Originally Posted by norma

Oh and I've noticed as well that the best known Turkish dancers dance Egyptian. ... I'd like to know what you mean and explain what you saw when you went to Turkey that you would call it modern Turkish?

I guess I was wondering if people belly dance to modern turkish music, aka pop music? You know how there is now the "modern egyptian" conotation for new dance styles which use pop music like Hakim, etc? Is there something similiar in the Turkish dance world?

I didn't see anything like that in Turkey. They did oriental dance, but the music/dance had a Turkish twist (even if it was a classical arabic song). I was just curious to see if the Roma or more folkloric styles of Turkish dance morphed into a modern turkish style (like the "gypsy" or folkloric styles of Egyptian dance morphed into the Modern Egyptian style of belly dance).

Am I totally off-base? Are my facts completely wrong? .p::

Well all I can answer to is my own experience. I started dancing in the 1980's. When I worked in the Arabic clubs it was a mixture of Lebanese, Egyptian, Gulf/Saidi music. When I worked in Greektown, it was a mixture of Turkish, Greek, Israeli, Lebanese, Armenian, Egyptian, etc.

It was all "belly dance" back then. We adjusted our steps to the music. Now I have some live VHS tapes to belly dancers in my area, a few years before me, so I'm guessing late 70's. There is one dancer, who worked at the club I was at the longest, Uncle Sam's in Dearborn. She was a Canadian dancer by the name of Naima. (My original stage name -FYI). When I watch her first performance-to me, that is what I consider classical Turkish. Very fast, dynamic movements, zills, veil. She does a costume change and does a more traditional Egyptian/Saidi show.

This is the style of dance I'm used to. Back then there just wasn't the separation that you see today. We were versed in various styles without realizing it. It was all belly dance.

Oh, and I'm sorry for these multiple posts. I'm in the midst of something super important so I'm trying to post in between. Like I said earlier I don't have a lot of experience with Turkish music. However, I used to perform at Turkish weddings. I'm from Detroit, but my Turkish weddings used to always be in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Now with the travel and visa restrictions I don't don them anymore. However, each and every single Turkish wedding I did was because they had hired an ARABIC band. Not a Turkish band but an Arabic band. Is this there "gold standard?" I don't know. I did note that they hired an Arabic band they still had a Turkish DJ for later in the night. I noticed that this DJ music didn't sound remotely like the Turkish belly dance music that has been shoved down our throats as "classical turkish belly dance music". I thought there music was very vibrant, upbeat.... I guess maybe more on the lines of Tarkan, although I don't consider his music to be "belly danceable". But definitely a more fun lively music than the whining clarinet I'm used to hearing. So again, I ask, what is modern Turkish????

OK, let me try rephrasing my question...Do people (Turkish or otherwise) "belly dance" to Turkish pop music? I'm thinking about the modern music that they play on the radio and in bars and stuff. It's certainly not arabic as far as I can tell. If people do dance to Turkish pop music, what would it look like? Just wondering...