Thread: Set Planning Question: Best Time for Audience Participation?

I'm stuck in a structural rut for my cabaret routines and looking to spice things up.

It always goes entrance, veil, prop, drum, short finale, audience participation. Very rarely do I deviate from my comfortable formula.

But there's something about ending with audience participation that makes my sets feel rather anticlimactic: like I stop getting everybody up and dancing, and then run offstage, like Napoleon Dynamite. OK, not really....but it's not as slick as ending with a graceful finale, blowing a few kisses (horrors!) and floating away.

Where do you ladies prefer to get your audiences up and dancing? Sporadically throughout your set? During one designated song? After veil/before prop? Beginning? End? Never?

Let's talk.

Lisa

It seems perfect to me - if you get them up in the middle, you might not be able to get them back down when it's time for you to start performing again.

Your current set is pretty much the standard American routine. Sometimes if something works well for decades, there's a reason.

I get them up before my drum solo, then exit with a finale.

I've never had a problem getting them back into their seats, but I'm sure it depends on the venue. Mine is a very restrained, quiet restaurant environment.

That's why I've never really messed around with my formula. You're right about guests possibly not sitting down if I do it in the middle of my set: could get scary if they want to play with my sword!

Maybe I should go from drum solo to audience participation to a quick little finale piece to signal that it's time to call it quits. My problem is that some audiences have such a great time dancing and ball-busting with me that they tend to overstay their welcome onstage.

I guess I'd rather have this problem than a perpetual crowd of dead fish in the audience. ..l;,

I do entrance, beledy, cane, audience participation, drum solo, finale

In a place with a largely American audience, I also make my cane piece audience participation friendly.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

It seems perfect to me - if you get them up in the middle, you might not be able to get them back down when it's time for you to start performing again.

Some here. I used to dance at a restaurant where we did it with the audience participation second to last, and at least half of the time we couldn't get them to sit down for the exit song.

I put it at the end. It gives me a chance to present myself before I make rounds or people get up to dance. With pop songs at the end, I also have the advantage of being able to skip out a song (or two) early if the need arises. I guess one can end the show with any song, but pop songs can offer an upbeat ending and are really easy to fade out.

Bands around here usually put a "go forth and get tips" song in the middle (before drum solo, cane and finale), but I don't like that format when there aren't band members to help you out as part of the show.

If the crowd invades the stage during the pop song and you can't make an exciting exit, I don't think there's reason to be disappointed. It shows you've done an excellent job of entertaining through dance and getting the crowd roared up to do some dancing of their own, and you can still take a bow and wave to people and blow kisses as you leave. I know it can feel Napoleon Dynamite-ish, but it's really not stumbling off the stage in moon boots.

It's fun if a few people do the last song with you because you can all end in a dramatic pose, take a group bow; audience participation at the end can make for an entertaining finale.

I put it song 3: entrance - prop - audience song or songs - drum solo - finale.

Most the time people obey - but if not then they dance with me for my drum solo, no biggie. It depends on the venue though, I'm always mixing my set up depending on the venue.

I do the same thing as Damiena. But I definitely have been known to get audience members up to dance during cane. They always seem to want to jump up during cane anyway.

I do: entrance, veil, audience participation, sword, drum solo, finale.

Sometimes the finale involves getting everyone up to dance with me - it depends on the crowd. If they were active during the first round of audience participation, I'll pull them up again and then forego the dramatic exit. But if they are not the dancing type, I finish on my own.

I usually don't have a problem getting everyone to sit back down - as soon as I whip out the sword, they usually get the hint. Plus, the music I use for my sword is not danceable in an "audience participation" type of way.

If it's a club show, I've always done it in the middle, depending on how many parts you are doing it would be either the second or third fast song, usually a pop song. It would be before the second slow, beledi or drum solo. I'd either go through the audience or bring people on stage. The exception would be if I was doing the cane, in that case I would go through the audience with my cane but I wouldn't bring anyone up on the stage.

Sometimes people get carried away and I'd stand to the side and watch them and clap. But when it was time for them to go, I'd step up to them, have them take a bow and graciously lead them back to their seat.

If it's a wedding, that's a different story as I want them dancing and participating the whole time.

I also have to agree with everyone who says you should be flexible with the audience participation.

I did a gig this weekend where the set was:

-Big orientale song w/veil entrance
-Sword
-Drum Solo
-balady style to Tahtil Shibak
-Arabic Happy Birthday song (audience participation)

The party was for a mostly GP crowd, but there was a single ME guest there, a lovely Egyptian woman who was a co-worker of the GOH. Well, the minute she heard Fatme Serhan's voice, her eyes lit up like a pinball machine and she started singing along and clapping. So I got her up to dance with me, which lead to *everyone* getting up and dancing. They continued to dance through the Happy Birthday song, and even though it was not planned that way, it was the most fun I've had at a gig in a long time. So I do think it's important to be able to go with the flow of the crowd.

Question about Flexible, Shems said this to. I think she said 1 or 2 song? If you have a premade 20min CD, where you have intro, veil, prop, audience praticipation, drum solo, exit song. If the audience does not sit down, then they will just dance to the drum solo? or are you saying are able to chnage you CD? I always put the audience praticipation at the end, but cause I can change the Cd and add more pop song if they want to keep dancing.

Originally Posted by laura 2

I also have to agree with everyone who says you should be flexible with the audience participation.

I did a gig this weekend where the set was:

-Big orientale song w/veil entrance
-Sword
-Drum Solo
-balady style to Tahtil Shibak
-Arabic Happy Birthday song (audience participation)

The party was for a mostly GP crowd, but there was a single ME guest there, a lovely Egyptian woman who was a co-worker of the GOH. Well, the minute she heard Fatme Serhan's voice, her eyes lit up like a pinball machine and she started singing along and clapping. So I got her up to dance with me, which lead to *everyone* getting up and dancing. They continued to dance through the Happy Birthday song, and even though it was not planned that way, it was the most fun I've had at a gig in a long time. So I do think it's important to be able to go with the flow of the crowd.

At the end, well not quite the end.I usually do a debke of some kind depending on wether I'm being Lebanese or Turkish then thank everybody gesture them back to their places.The finale comes on-I go round and thank everyone and I'm off.
I always feel you need time for the audience to like you enough to dance with you-its also a question of show dynamics-I feel the jolly happy party thing should be at the end and then finale and go.I may get individuals up before then depending on the situation and the people but the mass dance thing definately near the end, even if they don't sit down when the finale starts I still thank them ,go round the tables and go-they get the hint!.

Originally Posted by toria_dances

Question about Flexible, Shems said this to. I think she said 1 or 2 song? If you have a premade 20min CD, where you have intro, veil, prop, audience praticipation, drum solo, exit song. If the audience does not sit down, then they will just dance to the drum solo? or are you saying are able to chnage you CD? I always put the audience praticipation at the end, but cause I can change the Cd and add more pop song if they want to keep dancing.

To clarify for myself, I meant flexible as in letting people dance through the other songs. Although a drum solo usually scares them off!

A lot of great advice here and show set ideas. But one thought that I want to underscore is that however much you plan, going with the flow is really important. I work with Arab audiences and depending upon how into it they are I sometimes have people who want to get up and dance with me in the middle of my first song! Usually (and esp in a club setting) I prefer to save audience particip for my third song, which is often also cane. Arabs love when you go around and dance with them while holding the cane! Not everyone dances for Arab audiences, obviously, so that may not apply. But if someone is inspired by my opening, and wants to dance with me, I'll go with it because my job at a party is to be an entertainer, to make their event fun and special. I think it's different at a club where more of a diva attitude may apply lol!

When planning the show I think putting some aud particip in the middle on like the third song is perfect. There's always the chance that they'll be into it and dance with your through your table solo, which is cool. This has happened to me and I go with it. When you're working with tape, the music is less dominant than when you're working with live musicians. Having someone up with you during a live table solo is a little bit odd (and my drummer wasn't super pleased when that happened) but with a taped show, its just another song and sometimes if your audience member has an ear they get a kick out of messing around with the drumming and you can play little games with them and the music. So sometimes it even makes a good show to have someone up with your tabla!

These are some of my thoughts and experiences. I think being flexible and generous with your audience is the name of the game, though it never hurts to have a good plan!
xoxo Nadira

Well, I put my set together depending on my venue, but in general these are things I've found work for me.

The entrance is mine, I will ask people to sit down if they try to dance with me during the entrance, but I will remember them and get them up again later in the set. The second song if it's an American or mixed crowd, that's when I pull out the sword - no audience participation allowed for sword, it's too dangerous (sometime I'll do veil here instead of sword). 3rd song is a pop song, I put on my finger cymbals and I get people up to dance. If I want a little longer set I might put in two pop songs, or maybe a pop cane song - both for audience participation. Next is drum solo - I'll generally sit people down and perform the drum solo, but if people are just jumping out of their seats and wanting to dance I wont sit them down. They dance the drum solo with me. I try to choreograph them on the spot and have fun with it. Then I again will ask them to sit down as I dance the finale, but again I wont force it, if they want to dance through my finale that's fine too. then I go.

In a turkish place I do almost the same set, but I throw a 9 in between the drum solo and the finale and I don't do cane. I do get people up to dance to the 9 if there are turks around or people the look unintimidated by the rhythm.

If it's an arab crowd the entrance is my own again - I sit people down that try to participate at this point in the show. 2nd, I either do a classic (abdel halim hafiz, um koulthum etc.) or a baladi taksim (occassionally sword or veil if I'm in that special mood and want to mix it up a little). These also for the most part I perform. If somebody must get up with me for this song, I'll allow it, but I don't ask for it. Then I bust out the cane. Cane I plan to have audience participation, then I'll do a pop song or shaabi again with audience participation and I usually don my zills, then drum solo and finale. But sometimes I'll put the drum solo in the middle with the pop song after.

With recorded music my set is my set. I don't want to be putting a bunch of audience participation music at the end to let it go on forever. I've got other places to be. Things to do.

With live music, you and the band sort of have to adjust it with one another. It still takes on more or less the same format as above for me, but I'm less likely to let people dance with me through the drum solo, for example.

I like getting people up to dance the 3rd song in, because if there are people in the audience rearing to go, two songs is long enough to make them wait. Also some people don't know they can participate or tip or any of that, so song three is when I let them know, it isn't on television, they are allowed to get up and have a little fun, clap, tip, whatever.

Also, I like to have a finale. I know a lot of dancers put audience songs at the end, but I always feel like it's anticlimactic if they just skulk off after a couple of audience participations songs. It's like the show doesn't really have an end. I like a grand finish.

A standard bd show in a cabaret (traditional arab nightclub with entertainment like bd and live music) is: up tempo entrance, slow part, poppy song(s), drum solo, up tempo finale.

The bellydancers do it in this order to get everyones attention at the entrance, showing her feeling of baladi at the slow part, collecting tips going round the tables, recover audiences' attention doing the drum solo, and than a grand exit.

I have to add in classy cabarets people go to just enjoy watching great bellydancing and listening to wonderful live music, so it's just sitting and enjoying and not dancing themselves.

But ofcourse it just depends on the venue/event where you're dancing and the audience to decide whether and when to include participation. But I think a good time is during the poppy song.

B