Thread: beledi-Baledi?

Ok so I was told that there is NO such thing as Baledi but Beledi was a rythem and translates to mean country. But recently a dancer told me that she is going to do a BALedi to shik shak shock. She said this not typed it so she could have meant BELedi but still how could she do a BELedi or BALedi to Shik Shak Shock. Is the song based on the rythem and I am just missing it? even still if it SSS is a beledi why say she was DOING a beledi to a song that was a beledi............I am now so confused and I cant get my brain around this. Can you help? I am unable to ask the teacher that origionaly told me becuse she is touring right now. So BHUZ can you explain this to me

any one?

There's also the term "baladi taqsim" (not even sure if this is the proper terminology for it), usually an accordian taqsim intro followed by a call and response with the accordian and the tabla. Not sure how to describe it beyond that but it's VERY Egyptian. In the song Shik Shak Shok, there's a "baladi taqsim" imbedded in the song. Maybe that's what your friend meant.

Actually baladi means "my country". Balad just means "country". Like "Balad El Sham" which is a term for the Levant.

HMMM- I would assume that she would know taqsim....and would have specified. I am putting together a show and I wanted her music and a description for the show. i.e veil to athena, and Raks to laya al sharq- or turkish fusion to karshlima.............so she said baledi/beledi (the more i think it was BEL) to SSS......

Maybe she is confused or i am over thinking it

FYI beledi and baledi are likely the same thing. A phonetic translation of the same Arabic word. So if that is what is throwing you, don't worry about it. Pick your favorite spelling.

It is many things to many people: it can be just a word, it can be a concept, it can be a rhythm (aka masmoudi sogheyr), and it can be a (very social/of the people) dance style.

ok so lets say universal spelling........Is SSS a beledi? I didnt think so but I am not an authority on this. if it is then why say a beledi to a beledi? It couldnt be a style of dance could it?

As in Arabic the short vowels are not written, the transliteration can differ. There is so many ways of writing baladi. It will vary of the language of the translator, as the sounds of our letters are not the same in all languages.

baladi (this would be closest transliteration in Finnish)
balady
beledi
beledy

Shik Shak Shok has a big portion of baladi music. It even says that in lyrics:
Hassan Abou Seoud Song Lyrics - Shik shak shok

Baladi is a dance style as many other things as well.

Balad or Baladi, with whatever spelling you use can mean several different things as mentioned:

- country or my country (often referring to Egypt)

- the people of a country (like the people of Egypt)

- a particular class of people in that country (like the lower classes in Egypt. I sometimes hear it specifically in reference to Cairenes or city people as opposed to the more rural folks, but then I've also heard it referring specifically to the more rural folks as well. It can be used as both a mark of pride "salt of the earth", or a slam like calling somebody a hick.)

- an idea or concept about one's country

- the traditional folk music of that country or class of people

- the dances of that country or class of people

- a name Americans have given to a particular variation of 4 count rhythm, Masmoudi Saghier, which is common in a lot of traditional Egyptian folk music.

- "Baladi Taqsim" sometimes shortened to just "Baladi" is the name given to a certain musical construct, which is danced to, just as Mark mentioned, it starts with a solo instrument, usually accordion, followed by a call and answer interchange with a tabla, then a steady build in tempo after it all comes together. Sometime it goes into a tabla solo near the end, but not always. There are usually multiple rhythms used in a baladi taqsim, but it isn't uncommon to hear the one Americans called baladi in there, but it isn't a requirement. (yes shik shak shok, has a baladi taqsim starting right in the middle of the peice.)

I don't think it would be redundant to say I'm dancing baladi to a piece of baladi music. It would be like saying I'm doing country dancing to country music. It's specific, it's like designating that you are not doing ballroom to a country song, for example.

It might be nice to add even more specificity in an intro though, so you might say, Bob Bouncebottom is doing the "Texas Two Step" to "My Achey Breaky Heart" in your case Shelly Sugarshimmies is dancing a "Baladi Taksim" to "Shik Shak Shok".

more about baladi online:

Venus - beledi

Hossam Ramzy - Articles

Annwyn,

Great explanations so far. She probably means that she is dancing raqs baladi rather than raqs sharqi. More grounded, lower arm position, different posture. Picture Fifi doing Shik Shak Shok. Raqs baladi.

The rhythm that Westerners call baladi is actually masmoudi seghir or little masmoudi (as opposed to the big masmoudi rhythm that we simply call masmoudi).

Baladi is a feeling--soft but hard, coy but sweet, tough but tender, sad but happy. And to confuse things even more you can dance raqs baladi to saidi.

There are several excellent threads about baladi progressions that you might want to read. They explain that baladi feeling very well.

Souzan

Souzan-Shems

YOU RAQ!!!!!!!! Thank you between the both of you i get it. Thank you every one who posted as well. I am just figuring out the depths of Raqs Sharki, now raks baledi AHHH....I have had my head in turkish too much. Thanks again!

Originally Posted by annwyn

Souzan-Shems

YOU RAQ!!!!!!!! Thank you between the both of you i get it. Thank you every one who posted as well. I am just figuring out the depths of Raqs Sharki, now raks baledi AHHH....I have had my head in turkish too much. Thanks again!

Annwyn, glad to help.

Here are a few video links that will demonstrate more than words can say.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY6hBS5YNRo]YouTube - Authentic Kitchen Baladi - Maria Aya - Greece[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SUKreYf49s]YouTube - Maria Aya, Baladi, "Tarab Show" Athens Greece[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gen8wzq0fKg]YouTube - Adishakti - Balady Alwad[/ame]

Happy watching.

Souzan

And to add more confusion you will hear people interchange Beledi and Maksoum, which ticks off musicians to no end!!!!

Originally Posted by annwyn

Ok so I was told that there is NO such thing as Baledi but Beledi was a rythem and translates to mean country. But recently a dancer told me that she is going to do a BALedi to shik shak shock. She said this not typed it so she could have meant BELedi but still how could she do a BELedi or BALedi to Shik Shak Shock. Is the song based on the rythem and I am just missing it? even still if it SSS is a beledi why say she was DOING a beledi to a song that was a beledi............I am now so confused and I cant get my brain around this. Can you help? I am unable to ask the teacher that origionaly told me becuse she is touring right now. So BHUZ can you explain this to me

as far as transliteration goes I've never before seen "baledi" - usually both short vowels are transliterated the same way. The Arabic is - only the b, l, d and long i (or y) are actually specified.

But yes, it is definitely a dance style - and an umbrella term for all folkloric styles (at least in Egypt). Not sure who told you there was "no such thing" - but Yousry Sharif says "it is all beledi" - ie even raqs sharqi has beledi roots.

As a general rule, "beledi" style is more relaxed - lower, less fussy arms, earthier or more apparently simpler movement (which as we all know is actually hard to achieve).

Last weekend we had Tanya do a weekend workshop in Christchurch and the first day was beledi technique and then a short choreography - not Shik Shak Shok (which in my mind not only can be danced as beledi - but must be - and no bedleh!!) In the pre-workshop show there were three very different beledi performances (Tanya, Zummarad and myself).

So yes, it does exist!

I've only heard the main chorus of shik shak shock but I would say that style is more shabbi than Ashra Baladi.

The ashra baladi style of music, or as the American call it Baladi progression or Baladi Taqsim, is a generally newer style of Folk dance, created by the people that migrated from the country side to the big cities.

Typically starts with Piano Accordian taqsim intro, then into a Q&A session with a drum, then into a regular melody with the drums providing a variety of 4/4 and 2/4 rhythms, generally Masmoodi Sagir (Baladi rhythm), Maqsoum, Saidi (sometimes), Fellahi.

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

I've only heard the main chorus of shik shak shock but I would say that style is more shabbi than Ashra Baladi.

The ashra baladi style of music, or as the American call it Baladi progression or Baladi Taqsim, is a generally newer style of Folk dance, created by the people that migrated from the country side to the big cities.

Typically starts with Piano Accordian taqsim intro, then into a Q&A session with a drum, then into a regular melody with the drums providing a variety of 4/4 and 2/4 rhythms, generally Masmoodi Sagir (Baladi rhythm), Maqsoum, Saidi (sometimes), Fellahi.

Here is a link to an excellent discussion of the structure of Ashra Baladi:

Ashra Baladi - Belly Dancing - the Shira.net Tribe - tribe.net

Baladi has become my passion over the past year or so and I keep an eye out for info wherever I can find it!

Souzan

Annwyn, here's how I like to think of the word 'baladi/beledi' and it's many MANY uses. Think of the word 'country' in English. There's country music, country dancing, country people, country-fried steak, clothes can be country and so can landscape...

It just means 'not city-fied,' a positive earthy down-home goodness can be implied as can a negative redneck quality.

The word can be applied to soup, gravy, trucks, cabinetry, furniture...

How confusing is that? Well, not at all if you grew up knowing the connotations.

Similarly, there's a beledi rhythm, a beledi costume style, a beledi dance style, beledi music (which may or may not contain the beledi rhythm, Saiidi is also beledi for instance). There's beledi bread, beledi people...

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

I've only heard the main chorus of shik shak shock but I would say that style is more shabbi than Ashra Baladi.

Yes, but "ashra baladi" is only one style of beledi.

Originally Posted by kashmir

Yes, but "ashra baladi" is only one style of beledi.

That is true. But I would still classify SSS as shaabi.

Why?

I don't recall it being particularly shaabi...?

Originally Posted by NandaDncer

Why?

I don't recall it being particularly shaabi...?

So what is your definition of Shaabi?

SSS sounds comical and tacky to me like a English novelty song. Just the way they sing the chorus grates on my nerves.

What Shems and Lauren said!

However to further ellaborate, Balady style dancing does not have to accompany the Beledi rhythm. Ya Ma Daget is a song with a Saidi rhythm, but can be danced either Balady or Saidi style. Many Balady style songs use the Maqsum rhythm. (Fifi did/does this a LOT).

Ya Ma Daget Balady
(Not the best example, but all I could find. Hadia does a great choreo Balady style to this song)
[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=TMuRb2eQ7lY]YouTube - Marion (France) Baladi part 1 - Oriental Dance[/ame]

Here, Mohamed Shahin performs Tahtib to the same song
[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=UXBxHu20lWs]YouTube - Saidi show in Indiana 2006 by Mohamed Shahin[/ame]

Here, Fifi dances Balady to a Maqsum rhythm
[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=OKPglqpxxXU]YouTube - Fifi Abdou - Nour El Ayoun �ي�ى عبدة[/ame]

Please be gentle on me! This is a topic I've recently been really digging into, but still have a lot to learn.

GREAT thread!

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

I've only heard the main chorus of shik shak shock but I would say that style is more shabbi than Ashra Baladi.

You really should listen to the rest of the song, then you will know what so many of us on here are talking about/responding to.

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

But I would still classify SSS as shaabi.

If you haven't heard it, how can you? Clairaudience?

The song clocks in at about 5:30, and there's a lot more to it than the chorus.

Hey, look what I just found!
THE BALADI PERSONAE IN EGYPTIAN DANCE... - Egyptian Film, Past and Present - tribe.net

I'm in high cotton here....and I thought I knew beledi! Love the thread! Carry on.......

SSS sounds comical and tacky

What, you mean it sounds a bit BELEDI?

*runs away*

Originally Posted by shems

You really should listen to the rest of the song, then you will know what so many of us on here are talking about/responding to.

Ok I spent my $1.69 on itunes to hear the whole damn thing. After the singing it switches to Baladi.

Originally Posted by HubicRuzz

Ok I spent my $1.69 on itunes to hear the whole damn thing. After the singing it switches to Baladi.

Haifa Wehbi does her own version of this song and she also included the beledi progression (also known as balady taqsim or ashra baladi, although I have not heard of this term before), although a bit shortened. Shik Shak Shok wouldn't be Shik Shak Shok without the balady taqsim.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqN0Og1UFyk]YouTube - Haifa Wehbe-Shek Shak Shok[/ame]

I've also heard Bamba Kashar, a really old song with a baladi taqsim afterwards as well as a wacked out version of Ya Dala3 by Saba7. A lot of pop songs in Egyptian dialect will incorporate elements of the beledi taqsim, like this one from Rola Sa3d, the uber Lebanese singer:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Am0ANKrvg]YouTube - Rola Saad -- 3an Eznak Ya M3alem [English Subtitles][/ame]

The lyrics are quite entertaining :)

From my experience its commonly called Beledi by Egyptians when they pronounce it. The Egyptians seem to use the term for 2 things:
1. a style of music starting with 1 instrument, adding another, picking up tempo and ending in a crechendo.
2. anything folkloric

Dancers seem to use it for 3 things:
1. a style of music starting with 1 instrument, adding another, picking up tempo and ending in a crechendo.
2. the Masmoudi sughayyar rhythm
3. the zagat pattern Dum-tek-teketek-dum-teketek

Mostly I've learned not to use Shaabi or Balady as terminology around Arabs or musicians as I usually end up getting a pretty confusing result. Ask for a Shaabi and you get a Balady song. Ask for a Balady and they do a cover of Hakim's Wala Wahed.... But with my students I make a distinction between the two and inform them about what the result would be if they tried using the terminology with Arabs or musicians not used to working with dancers.

DaVid