Thread: Quick and Stupid Double Veil Question

OK. Say you're performing double veil in the middle of a set. (As I may do during Song #2 of a set tonight).

Do you drape both veils around you and unveil at the beginning of the veil piece, or do you prefer to leave the veils to the side and gracefully retrieve them at the beginning of your veil piece? I usually enter with double veil, in order to avoid this inevitable awkwardness ..l;, .

I tried draping myself in two veils, only to look like I had either a tent wrapped around myself, or worse, an enormous prosthetic ass.

I thought about this too, even though I know I am NOT ready to dance double veil.

I debate if one veil could be tucked in the belt, like an extra layer of skirt, and the other wrapped normally. Or wrap in one, enter holding the other, some how place it so it can be gracefully retrieved (ha, that will never work for me). Hmmm what about one wrapped, and one only drapped around the neck??

Agh, anyone have video?

I don't often put my foot down or have rules about things but I am of the strong opinion that small people have no business doing veil wraps, single, double, or otherwise. If anybody out there disagrees with me, bring it.

Enter with them. Put them down wherever you can most easily, graciously, and aesthetically pleasingly grab them.

I've never found a graceful way, and take the cowards way out of only doing it on entrance before the discard.

I love double veil but have always come out holding them together. If I had to do double veil in middle of a routine, I'd leave veils on stage and retrieve them, one at a time, and go into my fave move of spinning with both veils flowing around me at waist height or maybe a bit higher, then reversing direction of spin and putting the veils together to make *one* veil, do moves with the one, then spin again this time more like an airplane turn so veils are now flowing vertically around me (audience goes 'ooooh, aaaahhhh', unless of course I drop the dang things! I've even left stage wearing the veils "put back together", draped across front of neck and over shoulders and tucked in at sides of belt while doing miah's. Sounds like a lot, but if you like double veils sooooo worth it becuase it's so visual and it's all you doing it! Here's my hint: I'm 5'4" which isn't very tall, so when I use double veils they are not quite 3 yds each - maybe 2-7/8 yds. each. Shorter than me, I think veils could be 2-3/4 - when it's two veils I think it's important to "scale" them to height of dancer which translates into better aerodynamics. I do know shorter dancers who are able to handle big big veils but I"m talking double veils and there's a difference. Opinions anyone?

I like to wear them both tucked into the skirt for the first part so that it looks like a piece of your costume. (Ps. it helps to have a full skirt vs a fitted velvet/lycra style)

One of my students' 10 yr old daughter said it was like watching a magic show: "first it's a pretty skirt, then it's a scarf, then it's TWO scarves!!!!"

I don't trust my veil skillz enough to start double veil with the veils separate, BUT what I have seen is a dancer enter with one veil draped and tucked - across one shoulder, tucked in the opposite hip, it looks like a sort of chiton-style blouse - and carrying the second. Veil veil with the first, dance out of the second while keeping the first in your hands, get the two together, dance with the two together, do double veil tricks, the end.

Where's Cory? She has mad old-school veil skills, she will have just the right advice.

Yea, I always enter with them out - either as a pair or separate. Its just easier that way! Once of these days I'll have to do a double veil wrap...

Originally Posted by Nisima

I love double veil but have always come out holding them together. If I had to do double veil in middle of a routine, I'd leave veils on stage and retrieve them, one at a time, and go into my fave move of spinning with both veils flowing around me at waist height or maybe a bit higher, then reversing direction of spin and putting the veils together to make *one* veil, do moves with the one, then spin again this time more like an airplane turn so veils are now flowing vertically around me (audience goes 'ooooh, aaaahhhh', unless of course I drop the dang things! I've even left stage wearing the veils "put back together", draped across front of neck and over shoulders and tucked in at sides of belt while doing miah's. Sounds like a lot, but if you like double veils sooooo worth it becuase it's so visual and it's all you doing it! Here's my hint: I'm 5'4" which isn't very tall, so when I use double veils they are not quite 3 yds each - maybe 2-7/8 yds. each. Shorter than me, I think veils could be 2-3/4 - when it's two veils I think it's important to "scale" them to height of dancer which translates into better aerodynamics. I do know shorter dancers who are able to handle big big veils but I"m talking double veils and there's a difference. Opinions anyone?

Sounds nice!
Big big semi-circular tissue lamé (homepage, holographic gold lamé).
Scaled down 3/4 tissue lamé (Bhuz gallery, yellow costume).

I usually enter with them tucked in my skirt, one corner of each veil in the back of the skirt and the other corner of each veil to either side of me. (Does that make sense?) I wear 2 chiffon circle skirts so it looks like part of the skirt. I'm fairly small too so I don't drape them across my upper body because of the whole getting lost under veils and skirts issue. Then I take them out when I'm ready, but I suppose if I had a tight fitting skirt on I'd probably just enter with them already in my hands.
Have fun at your show!

Thanks for all the common-sense answers to my stupid question, guys!

OK, so I don't feel like such a coward anymore. I guess all those times I entered with double veil, I wasn't really copping out ..l;,

Needless to say, I got stuck in traffic coming home from the 9-5, had a little over an hour to get ready before the gig, read all these responses and said to hell with it: I just did single veil, after all. It just seems there is no easy way to work double veil in mid-set, between unveiling, fumbling for the proper finger grip, making sure both veils are properly aligned....I'm sweating just thinking about it!

Azhia, you crack me up. The idea of draping my already wimpy 4'11" bod in big billowy veils has always made me want to vomit, yet I kind of did it because I felt bad: would I confuse the unintelligent GP if I entered without an element of unveiling? Seeing old pics of me in the drapes was enough to scar me for life: I can't tell you how beautifully my DanceLife has been treating me ever since I put the kibosh on veil drapes.

Why is it that so many conventions of AmCab style are NOT well suited to the vertically challenged? All that fringe and fluff and drapey stuff....

I think the problem most vertically challenged people have with so many of the conventions is that they are afraid to adjust their props to their body. If I were 5' tall, I'd probably use a 2.5 yard veil at about 30 - 36" wide. Likewise, someone of Zorba's size would probably be better off with a 4 yard veil!

{{{HUGS}}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

If I were 5' tall, I'd probably use a 2.5 yard veil at about 30 - 36" wide. Likewise, someone of Zorba's size would probably be better off with a 4 yard veil!

{{{HUGS}}}}

Yea, I've pretty much said the same thing myself, a 4 yarder is more "normal sized" for both one of my instructors and myself. OTOH, my other instructor is a founding member of the four foot nine club, and can do double veil with a pair of 4 yard rectangles! Not her first choice, but she can do it. Show off... ..l;,

Now this thread has me thinking about how to wrap a pair of veils - and I actually have an idea that just might work for me. I'll have to try it!

where's samirashuruk? she ROCKS double veil!

Tahira, you do bring up a good point. I've been trying to get things like wings and swords in smaller sizes or custom made. Even my Sally Rand fans are "junior" size. It's always a royal pain in my ass, but makes a world of difference!

Trouble is, 2.5 yard rectangular veils are quite difficult to find, compared to the standard 3 (I can't even think of anybody who makes them, offhand, except for maybe L. Rose or places that offer children's veils in a selection of 2-3 colors....I'd love to get my paws on one, though!). I don't find that 3 yard veils make me feel short when they're sailing through the air. I kind of like having a little extra fabric on the ends for when I'm doing tricks.

And I still think veil drapes look awful on super petite dancers (when I say petite, we're talking like, under 5'2"). Even when I drape one of my small semi-circular veils around me, you can virtually hear the Oompa Loompa song playing in the background! It dwarfs me. The closest I'll come is folding the veil so it goes around my neck like a scarf and cris-crossing the ends to be tucked on each side of the hip (with minimal fabric sticking out). But I can't pull off the Grecian style wrap that looks good on everybody else ..cr.:

Costuming for the petite dancer definitely is a unique experience. So many of the biggest and best known trademarks of cabaret style are billowy, fringe-y, and busy. A shorter dancer must tread with extreme caution to avoid looking like Little Miss Bellydance Junior Princess USA, especially when wearing circle skirts and heavily fringed bedlahs. That's why I welcome all the monochromatic, sleek lines that are popular today.

Me and Azhia should write a book ..l;,

I've done a short entrance with the double veils layered on top of each other (so that it looked like one veil) and tucked into my bra straps at the points where I'd hold the veils in my hands, hanging down my back like a cape. Hopefully that made some remote kind of sense. The short entrance was like a taqsim (well, it was goth music, but you catch my drift) so I wasn't moving around that much, just doing flowy arm and hip stuff. The cape thing might look silly during a more energetic entrance ;-)

Lisa - My mom is 5" even. i understand completely about being vertically challenged. I helped her hem her skirts many times!

as for finding smaller veils, you may have to just break down and make them or have them made. . .

{{{HUGS}}}}

I [HEART] my seamstress BIG TIME.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

... to avoid looking like Little Miss Bellydance Junior Princess USA...

Still searching for the seamstress of my dreams, wherever she may be. I'm facing the fact that custom ordering and constant alterations will be a fact of life for me until I someday possibly hit puberty ..l;,

'Til then, it's off to go work on my pageant speech and my cane dance to Good Ship Lollipop....

Originally Posted by ruta21030

where's samirashuruk? she ROCKS double veil!

*blush* thanks Ruta.
At the advice of a Palestinian friend I do not wear an item and then take it off. I used to do that- but also found that wearing an Akai silk lovely for even one song...well, eventually it smelled a little sweaty. I don't want to do that to my silks. So, based on those two things, I place my veils somewhere near the dance space before I perform and I pick them up at the appropriate time. I try to place them where I can reach them easily and gracefully and if the music permits I make "picking them up" part of the "draaaama" of the dance.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

'Til then, it's off to go work on my pageant speech and my cane dance to Good Ship Lollipop....

Oh boy, I want to see this! ..l;,

I personally would not want to wrap myself in my double veils - I try everything to make myself look as slim as possible, and wrapping tissue lame veils around me would make me look like a colorful baked potate in foil :)

If I was to enter I would hold it as a regular veil, make it look like it's only one, and on stage, later on separate them.

In the middle of performance I have it set on stage somewhere where I can just pick it up.

If you are doing double veil with silk, there's no problem, but I always use tissue lame.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

...well, eventually it smelled a little sweaty. I don't want to do that to my silks.

I keep my veils in a trunk with several (3) scented candles (in glass cups). They always have a very faint fresh scent - sorta adds to the Belly Dancer mystique.

[QUOTE=Marianna;167476]I personally would not want to wrap myself in my double veils - I try everything to make myself look as slim as possible, and wrapping tissue lame veils around me would make me look like a colorful baked potate in foil :)


Bwahahahah! (Nisima, spewing coffee all over keyboard & wiping tears of laughter from eyes at the baked potato in foil visual) Oh my! I have always avoided that "tissue lame wrap" for just this reason. Even ONE tissue lame veil wrapped and tucked is bad, just soooo bad on me! Although, hmmmm, we could start a troupe of "Hot Potato" bders, each one of us wrapped in a different color tissue lame "foil" double veils - can't you just see it?..l;, .w.: ..l;, . Maybe not so much.....

Hot potato? LMAO. It's so true, though!

I kind of feel like that scene in E.T. where the kid dresses him up in drag. You know, how he's all squatty and everything, and sporting a baggy dress to top it off.

That is what I look like when I drape myself in tissue lame. Or really, any veil, for that matter. God help me.

The only tissue lame I could see on my body is the liquid tissue lame. I have one of those in silver, (there's no silver or gold chiffon, unfortunately, if anything, they look gray and beige). I use that with a silver costume to enter with and maybe do veil later, but I so far never wrapped it on me. If I did it, I would wrap it loosely, so it shows more than it covers, and moves nicely with every movement.

But two of those would be too much (for me) - again, the baked potato effect :)
Try it with a brown costume, silver veil and white head band (now you have sour cream on top)

For Azhia,

I would have to disagree (politely might I add) with your comment about short people and veil wrapping. I am 5' 3'' (ok, not THAT short), but short enough I would think for the most part, and I have performed with veils wrapped around me in different wraps (around the neck and tucked in the back, wrapped around like a toga, sari wrap). It's how my teacher taught me, and she continues to find new wraps for me to work with. I have had no problem using a standard 3 yard veil (rectangle or cirlce). A 3 yard circle veil is harder for me to use but I still managed to "wear it", and I am currently in the process of buying a shorter one (possibly 2-2.5 yard).

May I ask why you object to small people coming in with veils wrapped on their body?

*NOTE*: Not trying to start any wars here. Just sharing my experiences. Please do no hate. ..g.:

Hey now, no fighting....

I can't speak for Azhia, but we're both 4'11"....which is very, very short ..l;, . I can't afford to look *any* shorter, heightwise, so I take my precautions not to add bulk or overwhelm my nice petite figure.

I don't think I'd advise all petite dancers to eschew veil drapes, as there are varying degrees of petite, different types of draping techniques, and all different fabrications for veils....but small dancers should definitely take all of these things into consideration, just as a statuesque gorgeous dancer at 5'10" may want to rethink stepping out in Lebanese-style 4'" heels. I think proportion is key in dressing to optimize your body type, whether it's your costume, your props, your veils, or even your hairstyle.

A dancer of your height (which I'd consider average, not short ..l;, ) wouldn't merit a lashing with my cane for draping herself tastefully in a silk veil. Now, if I were to double drape myself in tissue lame......c::.....I would totally deserve a beating.

Needless to say, I don't necessarily subscribe to any 100% set in stone rules. I do like the veil drape that goes like a scarf in front of your neck, with the ends crisscrossed in back and neatly tucked. It may technically "defeat the purpose" because your stomach/costume still show, but it's a nice way to enter with a veil for those times when you don't want to go Egyptian and leaving your veil to the side is not an option.

Originally Posted by ecnyx

For Azhia,

I would have to disagree (politely might I add) with your comment about short people and veil wrapping. I am 5' 3'' (ok, not THAT short), but short enough I would think for the most part, and I have performed with veils wrapped around me in different wraps (around the neck and tucked in the back, wrapped around like a toga, sari wrap). It's how my teacher taught me, and she continues to find new wraps for me to work with. I have had no problem using a standard 3 yard veil (rectangle or cirlce). A 3 yard circle veil is harder for me to use but I still managed to "wear it", and I am currently in the process of buying a shorter one (possibly 2-2.5 yard).

May I ask why you object to small people coming in with veils wrapped on their body?

*NOTE*: Not trying to start any wars here. Just sharing my experiences. Please do no hate. ..g.:

No worries!

An opinion is like a nose: everyone has one.

You're a good 4 inches taller than me so I wouldn't consider you to be in that category of petite dancers who I believe should not wrap themselves in veils.

I actually used to do them; sometimes I would do one instead of a cover up.
However, looking back on photos: bulk. trashbag-like. will o' the wisp. E.T. (the one who phones home) going trick-or-treating.

It's the same reason why donning a wide-brimmed hat makes me look like a walking mushroom.
Relatively rules... .p::