Thread: Questions on Zaghareet and Hands?

Hi all,

Today at my hafla I had a guest performer, another teacher in the area. She taught my students to zaghareet and also that putting your palms up towards the audience meant that you were 'for sale' so not to do it. This teacher also told my students that the zaghareet was something only women do?

I have questions about these things. First off, my old Egyptian boss used to say not to zaghareet because it is 'a war cry'. I know that it is also used in celebration but wanted to know the history and purpose of this because I have heard differing ideas.

Secondly, has anyone heard that holding the palms up towards the audience means you are for sale? I'd like some links, etc, for research on this. Thanks.

I have heard it was "weak" to show your palms, and I have heard the zaghareet used in all type of emotional circumstances, grief, joy and the ululation of men in going into battle (in the movies). No links...just hearsay...

I've also heard that dancing with your palms up means you're for sale...I take those "tips" with a grain of salt personally. Why would someone make a zagharoot to indicate they're for sale anyways? Of course I'm no expert on the nuances of ME culture so I suppose could be wrong...my palm is always facing down and so is everyone I've ever seen

The zaghareet question was whether it was appropriate, as the Egyptian boss of mine thought it was not. I, too, have seen and heard zaghareet used almost everywhere.

The palms-up was supposed to mean you were for sale. When I told my students to research this information the other teacher was a bit miffed and told me she was certain it was a fact, as an Egyptian woman had told her that.

Brea, there might be info in this past thread, which also contains links to other gesture references.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

The zaghareet question was whether it was appropriate, as the Egyptian boss of mine thought it was not. I, too, have seen and heard zaghareet used almost everywhere.

The palms-up was supposed to mean you were for sale. When I told my students to research this information the other teacher was a bit miffed and told me she was certain it was a fact, as an Egyptian woman had told her that.

Sorry if I didn't answer your question properly. I've also seen zaghareet used in celebrations so I don't think it's inappropriate. I have heard that male zaghareet is a war cry but I don't know if that's valid or not.

RE: palms up. Look at this video of Dina (sorry, it's a little long but great footage). She frequently flips her hands so they're facing upward. Not for a long period of time, though...hmm. Certainly she wouldn't be indicating that she's for sale! I think palms up COULD mean you're for sale but it's all about the overall presentation. I always try to find the right info so I welcome correction of my perceptions...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqcXrRww7o]YouTube - Dina Egyptian Belly Dance[/ame]

Sorry, I've once again strayed from your original question. Back to the zaghareet issue!

Hm...I read through both old threads. It appears that palms-up to the audience does indicate something bad...although someone in the thread mentioned they'd learned palms-up from upper Egyptian. Perhaps it's a localized phenomenon? It's interesting; I'd not heard this before.

Sooo...does that also mean that the zaghareet done by women is in celebration, but by men, it's a war cry?

My perception based on past threads, movies, etc. is that usage of the zaghareet varies regionally. In some countries it's mainly a female thing, and mainly done at weddings. In movies and on the news, it's certainly done by men as a sort of war cry. Seems to depend on the country/tribe/region.

I don't think anyone zaghareets as freely & plentifully as American bellydancers, though.

Well, you ain't heard Kiwi dancers. In my neck of the woods it's all we do, none of this hissing and aiwaing nonsense, though North Island dancers seem to be all about the hissing.

I really don't know about palms up vs palms down, showing the palm etc, but I did learn that dancing with your palms turned up is more "low class" or beledi than down. When we learned ghawazee from Denise Enan, the palms were turned upwards a lot. That's not the same as showing your palms, though.

There only seem to be one or two in my region who come out with the aiwa. What's IT all about?

Originally Posted by ghazallah

There only seem to be one or two in my region who come out with the aiwa. What's IT all about?

aiwa is colloquial Egyptian for "yes". In a dance performance yelling out "aiwa" means "yes, I like what you are doing".

With regards to the zaghareet, I believe it is a sound of celebration - weddings, births, circumcisions etc. I have heard Egyptian men also zaghareet as a sign of joy.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Well, you ain't heard Kiwi dancers. In my neck of the woods it's all we do, none of this hissing and aiwaing nonsense, though North Island dancers seem to be all about the hissing.

..l;, ..l;,

In Egypt, a zagharoot (which is the singular word, "zaghareet" is plural) is a sound that is used in celebration. Yes, when the bride makes her appearance at the wedding celebration she is greeted with zaghareet. But it's broader than that. For example, in the movie Khally Balak Men Zouzou, Zouzou comes home after winning the cup for her college in a track meet and tells her family that her college classmates have dubbed her "the perfect girl". Their response to this news is a big joyful zagharoot.

It's *not* used by Arabs as a means of applause. That is a common thing that we dancers do in North America (can't speak for other parts of the world), but we are twisting it into something else for our own purposes when we use it as a type of applause. For that reason, I personally don't teach audiences to zagharoot, and I don't teach my students to use it in that way. (I do teach it, I just don't describe it as a tool for applauding the dancer.)

When I have seen people do a zagharoot in Egypt, it has always been the women, not the men. And they don't put their hands to their mouths at all. I'm not saying this is true of all Egyptians, I'm just saying that this is what I've seen in my small sample size. Also, the Egyptians I've seen do a zagharoot have done it by wagging their tongues back and forth horizontally - I haven't seen any Egyptian do the tongue up-and-down motion that goes with "la la la la la". Again, my sample size is small so it's possible that there are some Egyptians who do it differently from what I've seen, I can only describe my personal observations.

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Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

[snip] He fired me once...he said "Get out and never come back!!" Three days later he was asking my coworker, "Where is she? Why has she not come back?" and was surprised to find that I thought he had fired me. If I was working in another room, he'd come in and shout "Get in my office right now!" I would go in and think I was going to be told off (or fired again) and he would say "Let us talk about the belly dance."

He was very forthright. He once told me, when he came to America, he had to go back to Cairo to find a wife because he thought American girls were too loose. I told him not all of them are, and he said "I do not joke with you! The women, they would try to kiss me! Can you believe this?!" and I said, "Well, Dr. ***, maybe you were just irresistably handsome." He turned very red and giggled a lot.

He invited us over for supper once and everyone there was Egyptian. They found out I was a bellydancer (he called up his friends when he hired me and told them, very proudly!!) they moved everything off the rug in the house and went frantically searching for their CDs. They said "We have tried so hard to be American, and now our American friend brings our culture back to us." His fundamentalist Muslim wife said I danced 'very tastefully'; she offered to teach me Arabic in exchange for dance lessons, as she said her house was very strict and she was not allowed. At this, my boss took her by the hand and announced, "My wife DOES NOT DANCE!" While I was dancing, however, he got up and danced with me, doing figure eights the like of which I've never seen before. This man was, by his admission, 60 or 84 years old (he kept changing his mind about how old he was).

Brea, your ex-boss sounds absolutely wonderful, a bit of a puzzle at times I would think <grin> what a wonderful cup full of memories..l;,

Brea, it sounds like working for your ex-boss was quite a roller-coaster!

As for resources on the zaghareet...

I guess watching the actual movie Khally Balak Men Zouzou would illustrate for you the use of a zagharoot to celebrate in a non-wedding non-dance scenario. You can get the DVD from enter.html or Arabic DVD

For the observation of zaghareet used at weddings, well, I've reported my first-hand observations there.

Beyond that, when you're involved with this dance form for 27 years, you just have a lot of conversations in which Arabs, Turks, Armenians, Lebanese, and others are all happy to tell you what they think! So I don't have any formal citations in books or journals to offer, I can only speak from observation and conversation!

It's just like Shira says about zaghareet. It's just sound of happiness and enjoyment, not applause. They do it in many occasions: weddings, when there is birth of new baby, some unexpected reason for special celebration (like in the movie Shira said, Khali Balak Min Zuzu)... etc.

In Egypt mostly done by women, but sometimes some men do it as well in parties. Some women cover their mouth, some doesn't.

I was taught to always cover the mouth (palm down) to do the Zagharoot. And I've certainly seen native M.E. men do it.

But this reminds me of a story...

My wife, myself, and our sister and brother-in-law were in an Indian restaurant with Belly Dancing. I gave Zagharoot to several of the dancers (esp. since I know them!). The waitstaff were all indian - with one excepion: one white guy who just happened to be our waiter.

He came over to me, dropped down on one knee, and whispered to me "I heard you giving those women 'the sign'. I think you should know that that's", continued in sotto voice, "for women only!".

At that point, I'll swear the Devil made me do it. "Ordinarily", I replied, "I might be inclined to agree with you, but that's my instructor and", continuing in my most sultry voice, "I'm a Belly Dancer too.".

Poor guy, he couldn't get out of there fast enough. Moments later, I was invited to get up and dance so I did - gave him an eyeful! ..l;, ..l;,

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Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

does this mean they do not do it during a dance performance? I could swear I've heard it before on clips from the ME.

Oh, yes they do! But mostly on special occasion, not in theatres or night clubs.