Thread: Veil choreography: what makes it special?

I've been attending a lot more haflas and watching a lot more performances recently in my endless quest to improve.
I've noticed that a lot of the veil choreographies I'm watching are blending into one for me,s:: . The veil work that tends to stick in my mind is where the prop is used for the 'introduction' and then abandoned.

Until recently (and for various reasons) veil has never really 'done it' for me, which may well be why I have a tendency to switch off when I see it .I also understand that its a useful prop to teach beginners in that they can 'feel' like a 'real' dancer by using the best-known prop and also it gets everyone to move their arms around. However, as I'm coming to enjoy/understand veil technique a bit more, I'm starting to be bothered by my lack of enthusiasm for a lot of veil performances (by the way, I loved the one Artemisia recently posted -yummy!)

So, what makes a veil choreography outstanding/memorable as opposed to elegant or well-executed swishing? What raises the bar for you?

For me, it has to be more than spinning endlessly to some slow music.
Yawn.
You should never forget to DANCE with the veil. And maybe just hold it up inbetween, use it as a backdrop for your "other" dancing and then do some more veil stuff. Diversity is the key.
Also, fast veil dancing can be nice if well done (not hectic).

MEISSOUN

Hmmm, the word "choreography" might be part of the answer. To me, much of the glory of the veil is its potential for spontaneous or even "accidental" events - but one must be open to some controlled chaos. I saw a veil dance just recently by Alia Thabit that was fabulous. She wore a red dress and used a 4 yard orange silk veil. She "made love" to the veil and rubbed it all over her face, her neck, her hair. She got herself all randomly wound up in it and danced. She got it by the short end and ran down the room with the whole thing flying out behind her like a streamer. She draped one end over her head and moved down the room while lifting it over her in increments, "caterpillaring" it over her from one end to the other. She got it spread out on the floor and stood in the middle of it and danced. She dropped it for a minute while she danced standing on a chair; then retrieved it. And more! The whole thing was delightful and anything but boring. I would guess she may have previously played around with that particular veil and and figured out things to do with it, but the dance certainly wasn't choreographed and in fact it was done to live music without any prior rehearsal. The sense of wild spontaneity was a big part of what made it wonderful.
Rosette

I love and adore dancing with my veils - and watching others do the same thing.

What makes it interesting for me is when the veil is used in a multiple of ways - other dance moves, flourishes, wraps, swoops, etc. and the manner in which it helps to interpret the music. You should be able to feel the emotion of the dancer by the way she uses the veil.

I just finished teaching a fairly complex veil piece to my beginner class that the crowd loved at our student show. But they really got into the mindset that the veils were an extension (not a prop) and used them to "paint" the space around themselves. They have a life of their own sometimes...

If you're bored watching the veils, then the dancer probably is bored too and can't wait to ditch them.

If you're bored watching the veils, then the dancer probably is bored too and can't wait to ditch them.

Hmmm, that could be the case with a lot of what I've seen recently. There often seems (to me) to be a focus in veil dance on being poised and beautiful to the exclusion of genuine passion and emotion. As a result, my reaction tends to be 'Well, its all very nice but...', y'know?

Originally Posted by caasious

and the manner in which it helps to interpret the music. You should be able to feel the emotion of the dancer by the way she uses the veil.

This is it for me. Connection to the music. Some kind of communication from dancer to audience. Those qualities that take dancing -- and veilwork -- beyond well-executed tricks and moves and combinations. Stage presence. Unexpected movements that surprise, delight or amuse.

One thing technique-wise that seems to destroy a lot of otherwise-lovely veilwork is poor posture and poor arm carriage. If the chest doesn't fully open, or the shoulders round forward, or the arms are bent, weak, or always forward of the head, the veilwork just collapses.

I learned the hard (but good way) that improvising is the best way to go with veil....working with what can be a tempermental prop can force you to do moves you never thought you'd do! My veil 'deflated' and I ended up wrapping it across my shoulders and around one my right arm to accentuate a totally unrehearsed deep bend, right leg under me, left leg extended. I bent forward at the waist, using my wrapped right arm and hand to 'mesmerize' my audience. Don't ask me how I got out of it...like I said it was unchoreographed! Engage your audience, know your music VERY well if you can, and emote the heck out of it. Oh yeah, don't forget to pause and pose now and then...my teacher said I was moving a little too much.

I think it's like any prop. It either enhances your dance or becomes a crutch. I'm not sure what dance you're looking at, but with some people, it can be one or the other. The added fabric and color swirling about can be simply stunning and make a great dance better or it can be used to cover up a lack of skill, like any prop.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

This is it for me. Connection to the music. Some kind of communication from dancer to audience. Those qualities that take dancing -- and veilwork -- beyond well-executed tricks and moves and combinations. Stage presence. Unexpected movements that surprise, delight or amuse.

One thing technique-wise that seems to destroy a lot of otherwise-lovely veilwork is poor posture and poor arm carriage. If the chest doesn't fully open, or the shoulders round forward, or the arms are bent, weak, or always forward of the head, the veilwork just collapses.

I agree. My instructor here in Austin taught us to breathe with the veil, and that posture was very critical. She also inserts a lot of modern dance influences into our veil classes, mostly footwork type things, and I found that it spices up veil pieces quite a bit. I also like to incorporate leaps into my veilwork, which I know isn't "traditional" but I find it exciting.

Veil doesn't always have to be this ethereal floaty thing. I think it can be passionate, fiery, seductive (but not in a bad way-y'all know what I mean). For me it's all in the dancer's attitude.

Originally Posted by meissoun

For me, it has to be more than spinning endlessly to some slow music.
Yawn.
You should never forget to DANCE with the veil. And maybe just hold it up inbetween, use it as a backdrop for your "other" dancing and then do some more veil stuff. Diversity is the key.
Also, fast veil dancing can be nice if well done (not hectic).

MEISSOUN

I'm ITA with Meissoun on this. Some swirls, spins and swoops are fine for a brief entrance, but if you're going to do an entire veil song (3-4 minutes or more), it needs to be more complex to hold the audience's attention. I could watch Aziza or Sonya of Chicago veil for hours and never get bored.

I *never* choreograph my veil routines - too dangerous!

ITA with those who say you need to do more than twirl with the thing - I hope I don't bore my audiences! I've found as I've matured as a dancer, I'm likely to ditch the veil earlier as I figure I've "said" all I'm going to say with it, framed everything imaginable - blah, blah. Time to drop it and get on with it.

This said, a local troupe did a choreographed veil routine - four dancers standing hip to hip on a small stage. They did all the "usual" stuff, including barrel turns, blah, blah. No-one was hit, no veils tangled, no mistakes, no veil disasters. Again, all dancing hip to hip. Impressive.

As my style is more egyptian, the veil is used only in the opening of the song.
I never choreograph veil also, and dance the entrance having the veil with me, for egyptian works great, now for other styles yes i agree that Aziza and Sonia of Chicago are great :D

maria aya :)

I'm actually all for pre-meditated and choreographed veil work! That is, great veil tricks and transitions take time to get right. I think it's important to practice with your veil in front of a mirror (or video camera) - focusing on the passage and flow of the veil and working out how to make the material look it's best. For eg, if you flip your veil from front to back of body by just jerking your arms up and over your head, it can look like you're shaking out the washing. But start with the arms close and then widen them as the veil reaches it's highest point, and the veil will fan out into a beautiful arc. You need to work out exactly how to make the veil flow just so...and that can be via the slightest of adjustments in posture or velocity of movement.

I also like to see unusual veil transitions, such as tucking the veil into the costume for a few moves and miraculously pulling it out into a different hold, or throwing and catching in a clever way. For me, this sort of thing rarely happens by happy accident, and takes lots of practice to ceate and execute.

So, I'm all for rehearsing veil moves and transitions. But I guess it's like all dancing - practicing technique until it's automatic and planning little sequences ultimately gives you the freedom to ditch the choreography and dance as the music inspires you.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

So, I'm all for rehearsing veil moves and transitions. But I guess it's like all dancing - practicing technique until it's automatic and planning little sequences ultimately gives you the freedom to ditch the choreography and dance as the music inspires you.

Very well expressed !!!

Maria Aya ,r:;

So, I'm all for rehearsing veil moves and transitions. But I guess it's like all dancing - practicing technique until it's automatic and planning little sequences ultimately gives you the freedom to ditch the choreography and dance as the music inspires you

Yes, this makes total sense to me. I can see how losing the choreography will ultimately give a more organic and spontaneous feel to veil work but I think that the first step is to drill with it really thoroughly and develop that confidence.

I've been watching Aziza with a veil since I started this thread and agree that her veil dances are just wonderful. What makes her dancing speak to me is the complete and utter flow of it. Also although her expression may be sober to fit the music you can just tell that she's having a great time with it -something that I think hasn't really come across to me in some of the performances that I have watched recently.

I've concluded among other things that its easy to get all 'wrapped up' - when dancing with a veil and end up concentrating on the prop rather than projecting - hell, I'll hold my hand up to this one! I've also concluded that because a lot of teachers use very simple veil choreos with their beginner students that sometimes gets stuck in people's minds as the 'template' for a veil dance which is perhaps why some of the hafla stuff I get to see comes across as a bit samey (well, to me anyway).

One of the things I love to see and do is when the veil becomes an extension of the dancer as opposed to a prop. when you see a dancer doing something which they probably would have done anyway, but is enhanced by the use of the veil.

the other think which I L-O-V-E is watching when the veil almost becomes the lover. I don't know how else to explain that.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by khadiya

I've been watching Aziza with a veil since I started this thread and agree that her veil dances are just wonderful. What makes her dancing speak to me is the complete and utter flow of it.

Oh, yes, flow...I think that's essential to really beautiful veil work. As opposed to 'veil trick A' followed by 'veil trick B'. I guess it's the same with all dancing - seamless transitions really help to polish a performance and bring it a step up.