Thread: Who are the big names in Turkey?

Originally Posted by damariz

Has anyone mentioned Ozgen? I know he does some Rom and dances oriental (reminds me of a male didem).
Here's a clip:
YouTube - ozgen - turkish gypsie(romani)dance

I'm loving that Ruffled shirt look on him. It is pretty sexy.

Originally Posted by damariz

I find this to be true in many publications/websites I've read by Americans. How many times have you seen Egyptian described as more a refined dance than Turkish?

Yes. Turkish style is unrefined, cheerleader-esque, vulgar....Egyptian is poised, elegant, regal....Didem is too skinny, Dina's ideal....blah, blah, blah. As an avid aficionada of both styles, it does seem ridiculous that tons of educated dancers continue to subscribe to stereotyping the "other camp." Egyptian dance can be passionate and firey, just as I've seen Turkish dance that oozes sophistication.

I think the fact that these generalizations exist just speaks to the scarcity of unbiased teachers who can present their students with a variety of styles and allow them to choose their favorite. Or maybe there's a lack of exposure to good Turkish style because Egyptian's such a hot commodity. A friend of mine recently expressed her distaste for Turkish style, but upon further discussion, I found that it was not the work of Eva Cernik or Artemis Mourat that she seemed to abhor, but the fact that she's seen a few too many spastic, poorly paced, overly bouncy performances, erroneously labelled as Turkish. This is where role models like Artie are indispensable!

But what do I know? I'm still pulling for that utopian world where all dance styles are equally respected, raqs beaver is punishable by law, and all cliques are to be divided by force via the Drama Police

*off soapbox now*

Satin I'll vote for you as President and even throw some Turkish Lira and Egyptian Pounds into your campaign fund.

Freddie....you complete me.

I love Egyptian. I really, really do. But I also love Turkish. And Lebanese. And AmCab. And dark cabaret. It's just that I've had enough of being beaten over the head with what's hot in Cairo, and the fact that, suddenly, my shimmies are no longer politically correct because I do 'em *horrors!* with a slight natural bend to the knee.

As president, I will make sure that we each embrace our own case of functional multiple personality disorder and take time out to enjoy and respect ALL styles of bellydance. No superiority complexes. No hating. Just love, people!

Now, if you excuse me, I think I hear some gossipy chatter in the other room....where'd I put my damned cane? .p::

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Yes. Turkish style is unrefined, cheerleader-esque, vulgar....Egyptian is poised, elegant, regal....Didem is too skinny, Dina's ideal....blah, blah, blah. As an avid aficionada of both styles, it does seem ridiculous that tons of educated dancers continue to subscribe to stereotyping the "other camp." Egyptian dance can be passionate and firey, just as I've seen Turkish dance that oozes sophistication.

I think the fact that these generalizations exist just speaks to the scarcity of unbiased teachers who can present their students with a variety of styles and allow them to choose their favorite. Or maybe there's a lack of exposure to good Turkish style because Egyptian's such a hot commodity. A friend of mine recently expressed her distaste for Turkish style, but upon further discussion, I found that it was not the work of Eva Cernik or Artemis Mourat that she seemed to abhor, but the fact that she's seen a few too many spastic, poorly paced, overly bouncy performances, erroneously labelled as Turkish. This is where role models like Artie are indispensable!

But what do I know? I'm still pulling for that utopian world where all dance styles are equally respected, raqs beaver is punishable by law, and all cliques are to be divided by force via the Drama Police

*off soapbox now*

:thumbs_up:

well said !
I am also the type of person who can appreciate the different styles, sometimes i am in the mood for more folklore, then i go back to Turkish style, then Egyptian style.
I hate it when all people can associate Turkish dance with it is with those pictures of dancers with tiny costumes that were in fashion 20 years they dont realize that now Turkish dancers are way more elegant and covered than most Egyptian dancers. often that is the only thing they will say ,m::

That clip by Nejla was cute. Whaata backbend! Vincent Price was funny with his shoulder thing.

I must admit that I'm one of those people who has always thought that Turkish style is less artistic and more overtly sexual than Egyptian.

Reason one, as a couple of people have suggested - when I first started teaching I borrowed some Turkish videos and they were full of close-up crotch shots of dancers in bra, belt and nothing else, doing the splits (urgh!)

Reason two, here in the UK ,Turkey is a favourite holiday destination and many of my students and friends come back with shocking tales of bellydancers rubbing their breasts in men's faces, covering them with their hair, sitting on their laps and gyrating and so on.

When my new students report these stories, my heart sinks. And I have to explain to them that bellydancing isn't all like that. And then, naturally, I go on to explain that I teach Egyptian style and it's far more artistic and refined. Because I only have the experience I've outlined above to guide me.

Originally Posted by shems

This particular dancer also worked part time in Turkey and part time in Germany. I will probably never remember his name.

I think you mean "Prinz Erkan". He lives in summer in Bodrum in Turkey and make shows and give lessons. In winter he lives in germany.
Here his homepage: http://www.prince-erkan.com/
but I think it didn´t work ,m::

Here you can see a photo http://akutmagazin.de/news_archive/n...erkan_tumb.jpg

Greetings from germany
*Ayascha*

Originally Posted by *Ayascha*

I think you mean "Prinz Erkan". He lives in summer in Bodrum in Turkey and make shows and give lessons. In winter he lives in germany.
Here his homepage: http://www.prince-erkan.com/
but I think it didn´t work ,m::

Here you can see a photo http://akutmagazin.de/news_archive/n...erkan_tumb.jpg

Greetings from germany
*Ayascha*

That could be him. I just remember I stopped into a Turkish music store in Frankfurt and asked the owner where I could see a belly dancer and he said the best belly dancer was this guy who spent 1/2 his time in Germany and the other half in Turkey and that he was pretty amazing. I was impressed by how impressed he was. I wrote down his website at the time, but found it too complicated to get out to his show that night. (It was my first night in Germany, I don't really speak German and I was relying on public transit.)

Then I lost where I wrote it down during the rest of my Germany adventure.

I found a youtube clip, he looks pretty eccentric, check out that crown:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh7pBzave1k&feature=related]YouTube - Bester Bauchtänzer in Europa (Ein Mann!!)[/ame]

And hier another clip of Prens Erkan, he is also a singer...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBTDs3mNqe0]YouTube - Prens Erkan - Herseyeraziyim[/ame]
In two times I saw male bellydancer in turkey a few years ago and they have
the same style and the same costumes as Erkan and they look
like Erkan also. I think in Turkey there are much more male dancer who are very good (perhaps most of them are Erkan-copies...)
Greetings
*Ayascha*

Originally Posted by CharlotteDesorgher

I must admit that I'm one of those people who has always thought that Turkish style is less artistic and more overtly sexual than Egyptian.

Reason one, as a couple of people have suggested - when I first started teaching I borrowed some Turkish videos and they were full of close-up crotch shots of dancers in bra, belt and nothing else, doing the splits (urgh!)

Reason two, here in the UK ,Turkey is a favourite holiday destination and many of my students and friends come back with shocking tales of bellydancers rubbing their breasts in men's faces, covering them with their hair, sitting on their laps and gyrating and so on.

When my new students report these stories, my heart sinks. And I have to explain to them that bellydancing isn't all like that. And then, naturally, I go on to explain that I teach Egyptian style and it's far more artistic and refined. Because I only have the experience I've outlined above to guide me.

Sadly many of the 'dancers' employed by hotels to entertain the foreign tourists are not actually dancers at all, just local girls who look good in a costume and don't mind doing tacky stuff if it will earn them a few tips. Then of course the tourists go home with the impression that that is what Turkish Oryantal is all about!

When I first started out, I took a few lessons with a Syrian teacher and then briefly with Tina Hobin who introduced me to Turkish music. Whilst I really loved Egyptian style all my work came from working in Turkish restaurants and I was lucky that in the very early 1980's almost every Turkish restaurant of note had a small band. It was there that I learned that Turkish music and dancing are beautiful too and I got to learn how to play finger cymbals, to dance to a chiftiteli and slow/fast karsilamas and was introduced to the fun of dancing with props like glasses and sword balancing. One of the restaurants that I danced at for almost 4 years was run by a guy whose wife had been a dancer in Istanbul just after the war and she taught me so much. I was heartbroken when they sold up and retired back to Turkey.

I am really pleased to see that Turkish styles are starting to gain in popularity again - last year at Celebrating Dance Talia Duyar's workshops were sold out, so we have asked her back this year and Morocco is also going to teach a workshop on comparative karsilama.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

Freddie....you complete me.

I love Egyptian. I really, really do. But I also love Turkish. And Lebanese. And AmCab. And dark cabaret. It's just that I've had enough of being beaten over the head with what's hot in Cairo, and the fact that, suddenly, my shimmies are no longer politically correct because I do 'em *horrors!* with a slight natural bend to the knee.

As president, I will make sure that we each embrace our own case of functional multiple personality disorder and take time out to enjoy and respect ALL styles of bellydance. No superiority complexes. No hating. Just love, people!

Now, if you excuse me, I think I hear some gossipy chatter in the other room....where'd I put my damned cane? .p::

Dear President-in-waiting,

Just scanned a new thread re. Sausan's "Egyptian Dance Code" where she apparently makes a claim along the lines of "anything not Egyptian is NOT belly dance" or words to that effect.

It's this attitude that slays me. It's so insulting to dancers of other ME countries.

Afra - totally agree with the problem mainly being the Turkish hotels and clubs hiring rubbish dancers that just pander to the seaside-style bald-head-between-the-boobs style entertainment they have come to expect. It is such a shame. Such hard work to reverse the opinions of students who holiday in Turkey.

Sadly many of the 'dancers' employed by hotels to entertain the foreign tourists are not actually dancers at all, just local girls who look good in a costume and don't mind doing tacky stuff if it will earn them a few tips. Then of course the tourists go home with the impression that that is what Turkish Oryantal is all about!

Seems like the usual story: Where's there's muck, there's brass.

just in case you didn't see the thread and you are anywhere near the DC area, there is a Totally Turkish weekend with Artie coming up this June, come!

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/rest-belly...spring-md.html

Originally Posted by khadiya

Seems like the usual story: Where's there's muck, there's brass.

Sadly that sums it up completely! ..cr.:

I've nothing against someone trying to earn a living but I can only think that none of these girls ever watch TV because there is a lot of dance on many of the Turkish channels these days and a large proportion of it is quite good.

For me personally the greatest dancers are definitely Nesrin and Tulay, with Prences Banu right up there too. Out of the newer dancers I like Tanyeli, Reyhan and Didem the most. However, I appreciate all *good* Turkish regardless of style and as Talia is training with ASMED she has shared with us some wonderful youtube links and information about what is going on back in Turkey (she's married to a Turk and they spend a fair amount of time there every year). I do hope it starts to get the proper recognition that it deserves.

I fell in love with this more recent clip of Nesrin - [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr3nwHDFCns]YouTube - ORYANTAL STAR (FINAL) - Nesrin Topkapı Dans Show by LEVENT[/ame]

Originally Posted by Freddie

Dear President-in-waiting,

Just scanned a new thread re. Sausan's "Egyptian Dance Code" where she apparently makes a claim along the lines of "anything not Egyptian is NOT belly dance" or words to that effect.

It's this attitude that slays me. It's so insulting to dancers of other ME countries.

I've been through enough aggravation this week....I've probably avoided that thread for so long because I'm SURE I'd want to go all ninja on whoever wrote it.

Not to undermine the importance of cultural sensitivity, as that's a conversation I feel just as strongly about. But truths be told, I never signed onto this bellydance thing so I could get blasted by elitist punks with no sense of humor. You'd think of all people, a group who wears rhinestone bras, plays with swords, and could put the false eyelash manufacturers' kids through college three times over, might be more fun and chilled out than the majority of the population. Bellydance screams glamour, vamp, cheekiness, and good, harmless FUN!

Here's my Bottom Line: Respect the roots, learn the intricacies of each regional style, take time to talk to ME folks and watch tons of videos from the Golden Age....and give each style a chance. Even if it's not aesthetically your cup of tea, that doesn't make it any less valid as a cultural statement, a mode of expression, or an art in and of itself.

Originally Posted by afra14

Sadly that sums it up completely! ..cr.:



I fell in love with this more recent clip of Nesrin - YouTube - ORYANTAL STAR (FINAL) - Nesrin Topkapı Dans Show by LEVENT

this was beautiful, thank you for posting it!

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

I've been through enough aggravation this week....I've probably avoided that thread for so long because I'm SURE I'd want to go all ninja on whoever wrote it.

clipped

You know, I don't like that she just poo-pooed every other dance tradition besides Egyptian either. I love Turkish Oriental even though I a mostly Egyptian trained dancer.

My friend Ariel and I were discussing this recently. I decided that Egyptian Oriental was my lover and Turkish Oriental was his really hot friend. She said for her it was the other way around. We both train in both and love both and we certainly aren't the only ones and I honestly don't get how people can't appreciate the beauty in all of it!

Originally Posted by shems

My friend Ariel and I were discussing this recently. I decided that Egyptian Oriental was my lover and Turkish Oriental was his really hot friend. She said for her it was the other way around. We both train in both and love both and we certainly aren't the only ones and I honestly don't get how people can't appreciate the beauty in all of it!

I love this description, it sums it up perfectly for me! ..l;,

Ditto.

Couldn't have put it better myself. My lover is Turkish, my hot friend is Egyptian and my best mates are American/Lebanese/anything Balkan-ish. Love and respect them all.

Don't love or respect anyone elitist or racist. Which is what a lot of people seem to be turning out to be. Such a shame, they are missing out on so much!

Originally Posted by shems

You know, I don't like that she just poo-pooed every other dance tradition besides Egyptian either. I love Turkish Oriental even though I a mostly Egyptian trained dancer.

My friend Ariel and I were discussing this recently. I decided that Egyptian Oriental was my lover and Turkish Oriental was his really hot friend. She said for her it was the other way around. We both train in both and love both and we certainly aren't the only ones and I honestly don't get how people can't appreciate the beauty in all of it!

Good gods...that must make me promiscuous! Really, I love all styles, research 'em all, and use them freely to express whatever mood, cultural setting, or style I wish to project. My "default" is a cabaret-style blend of everything I find aesthetically pleasing. So whatever. If that makes me a stark raving culture slut, then so be it.

Metaphorically speaking, Egyptian is the prep school pretty boy, in his boat shoes and pastel Polos (popped collar and all), and I'm the fun-loving quirky girl from the wrong side of the tracks. I admire his slickness from afar, but I'll always be a little too brazen and rough around the edges to have any sort of lasting bond with him ,f::

Doesn't stop us from messing around under the boardwalk once in awhile, though

Metaphorically speaking, Egyptian is the prep school pretty boy, in his boat shoes and pastel Polos (popped collar and all), and I'm the fun-loving quirky girl from the wrong side of the tracks. I admire his slickness from afar, but I'll always be a little too brazen and rough around the edges to have any sort of lasting bond with him

You are hanging out with the wrong Egyptian.

Shems, love the metaphor!

Originally Posted by Freddie

Don't love or respect anyone elitist or racist. Which is what a lot of people seem to be turning out to be. Such a shame, they are missing out on so much!

And YES.

Sadly, I think this is a function of dancers being discouraged to think for themselves and develop their own independent stylistic preferences. I'd love to see teachers presenting broad, unbiased overviews of ALL styles (even including fairly recent inventions like tribal, ethno-fusion, and gothic) early in their curriculum. Expose students to the music, show them pictures of costuming (a PowerPoint presentation or a little booklet of images would be awesome!), do a few moves from each different style in each class. Encourage them to explore what they like and dislike about each style. This would be a killer idea for an intermediate class: you've got the basics down, now fine tune the style.

I think too many dancers learn only how to move like their instructor....gets kind of depressing and trite to see a dancer and pinpoint within 5 seconds who she's studied with. Nothing wrong with adopting a little bit (or even a great deal) of your mentor's style....but there's such beautiful liberation to be found in achieving your own personal interpretation of the dance.

*off soapbox*

You know, one of the weirdest things is the number of women who ring up to start beginners bellydance classes with me and they ask me what style of bellydance I teach. I say Egyptian and they say 'oh good. That's what I was looking for' and I think 'how did you come to that conclusion if you've never taken a bellydance class? Where did you hear that Egyptian is good, other styles are not?'

Of course it may just be that they're pleased I'm saying something that sounds authentic rather than just an aerobics-style class. Maybe next time someone asks that I'll ask them what style they're looking for and see what they say...

That would be very interesting indeed Charlotte. Let us know what happens!