Thread: The Egyptian Dance Code on G.S.

Read this please...and talk amoung yourselves...I will be right back. Oh, and be sure to watch the video in the article and tell mke if you see the point she is making. I am having difficulties with it.

Sausan writes of the EDC for the Gilded Serpent

Sigh. I just don't like extremes. Everybody who knows me knows that I am a stodgy traditionalist when it comes to Middle Eastern dance, but even I am mortified by this paragraph:

Belly dance, done correctly and in the Egyptian manner, is the most perfect dance in the universe. It is perfect in its timing and execution. It is perfect in its expression. It is perfect in its articulation, its gesture, its eloquence, and its portrayal. In fact, it is so perfect that nothing else really comes close to it (that is, when done correctly) the Egyptian way.

To me this is no better than the opposite "all fusion is good fusion" extreme. Even as a traditionalist, I can adamantly state that the Egyptian way is not the only way.

Sigh again.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Sigh. I just don't like extremes. Everybody who knows me knows that I am a stodgy traditionalist when it comes to Middle Eastern dance, but even I am mortified by this paragraph:



To me this is no better than the opposite "all fusion is good fusion" extreme. Even as a traditionalist, I can adamantly state that the Egyptian way is not the only way.

Sigh again.

Nisaa

With the exception of Souhair Zeki, I agree with you. Souhair is the example of how perfect simplicity can be - her hips resonate through eternity.

As for the rest, there are some things that Sausan says that I agree with, such as there being no "isolations" in Egyptian dance (or really in any Arabic style belly dance), but other things she says I don't agree with, such as her statement that Egyptians always emphasize heavy beats upwards.

Like anything, if you ask ten different people about this subject you will get ten different answers - I think the truth is that "authentic feeling" is a lot more ephemeral than anyone wants to admit.

A review of her workshop by a student

Melinda reports on Sausan's first workshop for the Gilded Serpent

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

With the exception of Souhair Zeki, I agree with you. Souhair is the example of how perfect simplicity can be - her hips resonate through eternity.

You're right...no argument here. She's the Um Kulthum of the dance.

As for the rest, there are some things that Sausan says that I agree with, such as there being no "isolations" in Egyptian dance (or really in any Arabic style belly dance)

That's true too. I tell students that although we practice "isolations" in order to learn the basic movement vocabulary and get control over relevant muscle groups, ultimately we must learn how to put everything back together again in an organic, seamless way.

I think the truth is that "authentic feeling" is a lot more ephemeral than anyone wants to admit

Right. I agree with Sausan that studying and learning from the Egyptian masters is important, but I don't agree with her monolithic interpretation of the Egyptian style. Egyptians create their own individual styles around a more-or-less coherent movement vocabulary, with a focus on communicating the emotion/feeling of the music. The "Egyptian style" of Taheya Carioca, for example, is vastly different from the "Egyptian style" of Samia Gamal, and so on. Ironically, trying to distill everything into a "code" is so antithetical to the Egyptian approach to the dance.

Nisaa

I purchased her materials without being able to travel to her workshops...so I thought the "code" would be apparent in her materials. I t wasnt. I think by "code" she means the simple re emphasis of the training the ear from western modes of timing to eastern. I simply dont see that in the video. I wish it (the video) had been a more instructional...this is what most of you do now...to this is what you could do.

I would think that the definition of the "containment of movement", as she states that this is what the Egyptian Dancers are doing, in a word is "isolations", which she states that the Egyptian dancers are not doing.
Egyptian Dance can be very interpretive as the visual expression and feel of the music. This is an individual ability. Some do it better than others. Time has changed the look of Egyptian Dance because time has changed the music that we dance to. We have also progressed in time as to what is doable and acceptable in the dance world ..in the U.S. and Egypt. Movements that would not have been seen years ago because of the supposed shock value in Egypt ..can be seen today as standard fair and part of the dance. Look how the costumes have changed ..look how the instrumentation has changed. Dance is an ever evolving living, breathing movement and will continue to do so. All dance forms have experienced this. You can only catagorize Egyptian Dance by the era it came from and the music and movements of the time. It is all valid with your "feeling" thrown in to express the music. We today have the ability to incorperate all the past era's of "style of Egyptian Dance" to blend and make something new and edgy, as long as you keep the "feel."
From my personal experience in Egypt for years..It is a dance of isolations that have evolved over the many years to encorperate known generic dance moves to connect the isolations into a cohesive dance form, with public appeal.
Just my opinion :)
Leyla Amir, Las Vegas, Egypt tours, dancer, performer

Hi, Everyone:

To Anala: First, much thanks for purchasing my materials. And, second, you are correct in stating that you could not noticed the code in those materials as those materials are sold as class materials which accompany the courses I teach. Since you have not yet gone through my courses, you will not have been able to "see" the code, although you would have been able to "see" that the dancers dance Egyptian. So, while I'm happy that you bought these DVDs from me, please note that on the web site it clearly states,

"These are course materials that accompany the 12-week Primary Course taught at the Sausan Academy™ of Egyptian Dance. "

Once students pass through my classes, the code becomes very apparent to them. The materials serve as visual data which allows that student to "see" the Egyptian Dance Code performed by seven individual Egyptian Dance Greats which are featured on those DVDs. The materials also serve to introduce to my students these wonderful dancers as having given us the dance.

Containment of movement is not the same as isolations. I use the word "containment" because the same movement can be done big or small and not isolated. All movement is done easily within the Egyptian Dance Code.

Again, thank you all for reading my article and for stopping by to watch my performances on youtube.com. The concept I write about is a cultural one and therefore understandably abstract when defining it via the written word. But, as with all of the students who sign up initially for the Primary Class, each one suddenly "sees" the differences between American/Western dancers and Egyptian Dancers, and goes on to identify the specific movement via the Egyptian Dance Code on these dancers. Additionally, everyone graduates after one year with a thorough understanding of how movement is executed within the Egyptian Dance Code.

Side Note: For years I knew that my dance teacher, Jodette (born and raised in Egypt by Egyptian gypsies), possessed something that was not being passed through to her students. That "something" was what I searched for for over 28 years. It is that "something" that I call the Egyptian Dance Code. I have since seen Jodette in a video which I got from her that was made in the late 1970s, and, there is was....the Egyptian Dance Code. That's how culturally invisible it is to us.

Again, thanks for reading my article and for discussing it at length here on Bhuz.com. I hope day to meet all of you.

-Sausan

And I you...

It was not a disappointment to me Sausen. I didnt mean it to sound that way and I appologize if I did.. I knew full well when I bought the materials that, without the teacher, I would be left to puzzle it out as best I could. I never would have hit on the timing if I hadnt seen the GS article, so now I will be able to approach your material with more clarity of purpose. I only wish the demonstration video had been clearer in allowing us to "see" the concept of which you speak since I* cant seem to hear it.

Will you let us know if you can see it now you know what you are looking for?

I guess we can agree to disagree... as I see the word verbage isolations and containment as the same thing and I can do isolations big or small. If you contain a movement you are isolating it.
I would agree that there is a certain look of the Egyptian dance style, that is visabley different than the Turkish, Greek, etc. But today's Modern Egyptian dancers do not dance like that of the "golden era" or "classical era", but have more influence of modern dance form with highly choreographed routines to the music. "Old" style was much more "free" and repetitious of movements with less movements used. This dance has evolved and will continue to evolve. Some dancers, such as myself, have choosen to stay with the older styles with new nuances thrown in for a little moderenization and to keep up. I have seen dancers on film from Egypt from the 20's and I would never dare to replicate how they are dancing or the costuming. Orientale dance did not evolve to it's regonizable form until the thirties and has progressed ever since. Even the Turkish dancers are looking more Egyptian because of the music they are choosing to perform to.
For me the key has always been the music.
I do commend you for trying to teach the Egyptian style as it is not an easy task. For me it is the most beautiful of all the styles...any era!

Leyla Amir, Las Vegas, Egypt tours, dancer, performer

I am going out on a total limb here..no pun intended. When I watch the laid back relaxed yet very powerful dancers of both Golden Era and modern..western by birth and Egyptian natives, the thing that most impresses me is the relaxed yet intense mood that they convey, and that I slip into as I watch them.

When I was a kid in the 60's and early 70's and awakening to the finest English and American rock and roll - Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and the like, the feeling was much the same. Relaxed and intense with a visceral emotional response in the diaphragm that was a very physical response to the music. I play blues harp (the harmonica) and get much the same feeling when on a fine riff. It is like the pain of lost love and ecstasy at the same time. So, while watching the video clip it seems the prepare for the move is the “one” count giving the two count the emotional weight of the movement, hence the relaxed yet intense feel. Am I closer to understanding you, Sausan?

Hi...

The best example of the Egyptian Dance Code is provided by Fifi Abdo. Nothing about Fifi Abdo is isolated. Everything is contained either in the lower body, upper body or both. All parts of her body move when she dances. Nothing stays isolated. If you watch her and are privileged enough to actually see her dancing to music that has not been dubbed in but is actually the music she used on set, you can count either full time or half time, how she is keeping the beat of the music. Her chest lifts on beats one and three as she either walks or steps-and-points on the same beats. If you put your hand over her lower body on any youtube.com clip, you'll notice that her upper body lifts on beats one and three. You can do the same with Nagwa Fouad, Suhair Zaki, Hanan, and all the other Egyptian dancers. It's just more subtle on those dancers than what Fifi does.

Yes, Egyptians do create their own individual styles around a more-or-less coherent movement vocabulary, with a focus on communicating the emotion/feeling of the music. The "Egyptian style" of Taheya Carioca, for example, is indeed vastly different from the "Egyptian style" of Samia Gamal, and so on. However, the thing that is common between Taheyia Karioka and Samia Gamal is the Egyptian Dance Code. The Egyptian Dance Code is the common denominator to all Egyptian dancers and that is why they all "look" Egyptian while their styles may be vastly different.

As for emotion, I have noticed that what works well is that with undulations, a frown with a smile is best; and with a shimmy, a joyous face with an open-mouth smile works regardless of what the words are saying -- that's if you don't know what the words are saying insofar as they are in the Arabic language. :-) This technique is foolproof.

I'm working on including the demonstration of the Egyptian Dance Code by me in instructional DVDs, now that I have the clips out on DVDs depicting the movement. It will take a little time, but it's getting done.

Again, much thanks. BTW...I have uploaded three more videos on youtube.com. Hope you will take the time to check them out.

-Sausan

so intresting.....Keep going, Grabs bag of pop corn.

Mind you I am very confused by American interpretation of this Egyptian dance at Raqs B this last weekend...c::

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Mind you I am very confused by American interpretation of this Egyptian dance at Raqs B this last weekend...c::

Don't blame you . . . I have been very confused lately regarding "American" interpretation too.

I have retreated back to my videos of Mona El Said and Fifi . . . Fifi is where I learned how to be a bit more relaxed with my dancing . . . but Mona is where I learned about the passion of dance . . . . and there is plenty to learn from Sohair, Samia, Tahiya, Nagwa, Dina, Randa, Aida, Lucy . . . all different . . . and I don't need to buy someone's code to learn this . . . but that is just me. I haven't seen any of Sausan's material and was interested when I first heard about it . . . but then I realized that with 25 years of dancing myself that I probably had already figured out much of it and/or studied it with someone who had done similar things (Shareen el Safy for one but there are others) so someone else's interpretation would probably not be needed. . . . I think it gets too confusing after awhile.

So I'll continue on with what I do . . . and I do go to lots of workshops so that doesn't mean I have stopped learning . . . Egyptian, American, English, Canadian . . . whoever I can find!


Oh, and YES I read Sausan's article on Gilded Serpent . . . I think I should write another article myself.

Originally Posted by sausan

As for emotion, I have noticed that what works well is that with undulations, a frown with a smile is best; and with a shimmy, a joyous face with an open-mouth smile works regardless of what the words are saying -- that's if you don't know what the words are saying insofar as they are in the Arabic language. :-) This technique is foolproof.

Really?

I'm having trouble matching "focus on communicating the emotion/feeling of the music" with "a joyous face with an open-mouth smile works regardless of what the words are saying"

Originally Posted by Khalida

I'm having trouble matching "focus on communicating the emotion/feeling of the music" with "a joyous face with an open-mouth smile works regardless of what the words are saying"

Ditto.

Needing clarification myself.

I can only bring it into my own frame of reference as I am not an advanced dancer by any means. When playing the harmonica with the really good blues band that used to be here, there were times that the wail of the blues was so sweet and painful that if I didnt have the harp shoved halfway in my mouth, I would have had a huge smile on my face. It is an odd feeling that I think is shared and the 2 forms are emotionally closer that they seem to be at first glance... American blues and Middle Eastern music.

Originally Posted by anala

Needing clarification myself.

I can only bring it into my own frame of reference as I am not an advanced dancer by any means. When playing the harmonica with the really good blues band that used to be here, there were times that the wail of the blues was so sweet and painful that if I didnt have the harp shoved halfway in my mouth, I would have had a huge smile on my face. It is an odd feeling that I think is shared and the 2 forms are emotionally closer that they seem to be at first glance... American blues and Middle Eastern music.

You understand perfectly.

*Sits with moist eyes and goose bumps*

I'm still struggling with this concept too, but I find it fascinating that Sausan has identified such a fundamental difference in the way we dance. I may be wrong (and please correct my if I am) but what I'm interpreting as one of the basic ideas in the Code is this: when an Egyptian (say Fifi) does a step hip, her emphasis is on the step itself. A big bouncy joyous step on the one, and the hip accent on the two is secondary. When we (at least Americans) look at this and break it down, our focus is on the movement and we step (on the one) HIP (on two). It's the same basic movement but the emphasis is different.

Watch teeny Dina and count it out (this is also a good example of containment of movement without it being an isolation):

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AyVQag6Yq8&feature=related]YouTube - Dina red dress[/ame]

And Samia (count to yourself and you'll see she's almost always on toes on one)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ7FPfvNuto&feature=related"]YouTube - Samia Gamal - Ali Baba and the 40 thieves سامية جمال[/ame]

Also, we tend to step on one and hip on two, whereas Egyptians more often will step on the *and* to hip on the one (or wait for the three, but the emphasis is up on 1 & 3). Does that make any sense?

See Fifi here when she turns around:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIJs8IkhWgw&feature=related]YouTube - The Egyptian Star - Fifi Abdo[/ame]

ok..you got a slow child here..I need something slower in tempo to "read the count"

doing my seated shimmy with an open mouth and smile on my face :Abiggrin:

Sorry, trying to find examples with someone who isn't affected so much by the rest of the world. The movie clips are hard since they're probably dubbed, and more recent stars show western influence for sure. Hmm. A clip of Lucy (original Awalem) would be great...

This is making my wonder if Saidi isn't so popular here because it's the opposite...we accent the upbeats on 2 & 4, so it's more natural to us. Is that true?

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Mind you I am very confused by American interpretation of this Egyptian dance at Raqs B this last weekend...c::

Can you guys expand on this? Are you talking BDSS or something else??

doing my seated shimmy with an open mouth and smile on my face

No chewing with your mouth open!

Originally Posted by anala

doing my seated shimmy with an open mouth and smile on my face

No chewing with your mouth open!

only when i do my melaya

but seriously i look scary when i shimmy with my mouth open +smile ( i just tried in front of my mirror ) ...maybe that is the secret to me not doing my "emotional faces" cough*stupid*cough*face*...c::

Tilt your head back and slightly to the side and try it again while thinking about placing your feet in a cold wading pool after a long summer day shopping in high heels. AAAHHhhhhhhhh......


Can you guys expand on this? Are you talking BDSS or something else??
Yes, please do!