Thread: Okay . . . I'm converted

Background, which some of you already know:

I grew up, BD-wise, as an apprentice dancer to my mom, starting at about age 17 1/2. We went together to her private party gigs. I did a few big events, too, like trade shows, but mostly parties in homes and banquet rooms.

Everything was pure improvisation. Sure, I knew I wanted to do a backbend here, do some snake arms there, but everything else just kinda "happened." For venues such as homes, where anything can -- and does -- happen, it's the only way to go. Pure improv is also the only mode available when dancing to live music.

Then, lo and behold, at something over the age of 35, I began to do stage shows with canned music as a soloist. I hated it: I was too far from my audience, I couldn't interact with them the same way that I could up close and personal at a party or similar venue and, although I was accustomed to being on a stage, I always felt I could never "fill" the space and really project myself into that oh-so-far-away bunch of people.

But lately, I've been even more unhappy than usual with my improv'ed stage shows. So, I've been doing some thinking and asked myself the following question:

When have I felt the most comfortable doing a stage show event? The answer didn't shock me as much as I might has thought it would:

I'm most comfortable doing a stage show when I've choreographed very specifically for my music.

Whew! Glad I finally figured that out . . .

So, there you go. I've officially converted from an all-improv kinda gal to someone who now has to get going and create a bunch of choreos for the various stage shows I do every year. Its a good thing that I have some good, basic student choreos that I can jazz up, so I don't have to completely reinvent the wheel to get started.

I'm feeling better about my dancing already . . .

I guess sometimes it takes nearly 30 years to figure some things out!

Deborah

Do you know I've come to the same conclusion. I improvised for years-still do for restaurants and parties but for stage and longer shows I choreograph at least part of it. I noticed that if I don't I repeat myself too much, also I have a very dominant right side-I had a stroke when I was younger and so I have a big difference in the ability of my right and my left side and if I don't work on it my left side takes a break.Choreograhing at least part of the show or my dance has improved my performance a lot. I still leave bits where I can go with the flow though.But it is as if with a choreography, that has come out of my improvising anyway, I'm then free to think about something else like actually interpretating the music how I feel when I dance-if that makes sense.

It's so wonderful to finally arrive at yourself and admit what you already kinda knew.
I can totally understand what you both mean.

Yep, I blogged about this one....I *need* to have choregoraphy if I'm going to do a stage show.

For something on stage, I don't totally improvise. Well, unless there are live musicians. Then, because much as I love those guys, you never know what you will get!

It's a balance. many of my teachers will teach a choreo at a workshop and then perform it later in the workshop weekend. And while it retains the frame work of the original, many times the end product is very different.

{{{HUGS}}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

It's a balance. many of my teachers will teach a choreo at a workshop and then perform it later in the workshop weekend. And while it retains the frame work of the original, many times the end product is very different.
{{{HUGS}}}}

My daughter does this. She has now performed the same piece three times and, like you posted, Tahira, although each time a certain framework remained, I see different stuff each time.

I am so proud of my baby girl!

Deborah

I too have reluctantly come to this conclusion. I've always worked with live bands so improv was a necessity. I would always choreograph things for students and groups but not for myself. But dancing to canned music on stage where your performance is being taped-well I don't choreograph everything little thing but I do choreo on difficult passages and if the rhythm is repeats a lot I make sure I come up with several steps or combinations that will work well with the rhythm so I don't end repeating myself.

I understand that the comfort level is different when you have something choreographed versus totally improvised, but I think a soloist performing strict choreography on stage loses something, often resulting in a performance that is flat, calculated, rehearsed, and occasionally too perfect.

I've only been dancing a fraction of the time you have, Deborah, but so far my favorite method is to use a choreography to learn the song and then toss the choreography....and then just dance and let your soul shine through!

I hate the fact that the best place to do improv is at restaurants and parties-- because those are the most annoying venues (remember the restaurant environment where I live). The most supportive places to dance in town are local staged shows--but I struggle with choreography and feel that I, too, cannot bridge the gap between me and the crowd while on stage. I know dancers do it, but I struggle and am really scared to sign up for the local stage show because I am scared to fail.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

I hate the fact that the best place to do improv is at restaurants and parties-- because those are the most annoying venues (remember the restaurant environment where I live). The most supportive places to dance in town are local staged shows--but I struggle with choreography and feel that I, too, cannot bridge the gap between me and the crowd while on stage. I know dancers do it, but I struggle and am really scared to sign up for the local stage show because I am scared to fail.

Awww, don't be scared Mish -- remember, the audience wants to love you!

Deborah

Thanks, Deborah.

I'm curious- besides the comfort or confidence level - how does your "choreographed dancing" change from your "improved-dancing" that makes it better suited to the stage and audiences at greater distance? Do you have more large movements? more varied movement patterns? more structure?

Or is it the confidence or comfort that allows you to project the same movements further away?

Meredith

Well, besides the lack of interaction (it's easy to improv and interact with an audience when they're up close in person...not so much when you're up there and all you see is bright lights in your face), there are also probably a lot of staging factors that come into play. You might, for example, make sure to add level changes, changes of direction and angles, and varied arm movements to a choreography, but when you're up on stage improvising it's just you and the music and whatever comes to your body at the time. On the other hand, if you are sticking to a strict choreography, it may need to be adapted to the size and dimensions of the stage and the type of audience, or you can end up losing some of the impact.

I think it also takes a mastermind to make a rehearsed choreography look spontaneous on stage (Zahra does a phenomenal job of this). Oh, to be so skilled!

i don't think anybody realises my choreos are choreographed mainly because they have grown out of my improvising. First I listen to the music many times then I start imrpovising then I keep the bits i like.But what I feel it does is shows more moves or versatility on stage because with the choreo I've got the best bits of at least 20 or 30 improvs all put together-takes an age. Where as in a restaurant setting I may repeat moves over and over if I feel like it -this won't work on stage, where you've lost the personal relating element. I also do keep bits in every choreo where I improvise and I don't think these bits stick out in any way. This way allows me to get more variety in my dancing, allows me to still be me and gives me a more polished performance in the end that is not stlted or lacking in emotion. Hope I've explained that in a sensible way-its late here in the Uk and I'm just back from a restaurant gig.

I can relate, Deborah!

During the years that I was dancing in restaurants 4 -6 nights a week (up until about three years ago...), improv was my favorite and I never, ever choreographed my solos - even for stage shows. I felt that improv was so much more expressive, and that it was hard to be creative and spontaneous within a choreography. Choreography made me feel hemmed in and canned.

When I started focusing more on stage shows, especially those that are videotaped, I learned to bring the creative, spontaneous energy into the context of a choreography, so that now I can enjoy dancing a choreography (meaning my own) onstage just as much as dancing improv for a less formal setting - sometimes even more so. For one thing, in a stage show you don't get five minutes to "warm up": sometimes five minutes is all you have to show your stuff, and if you plan to improv and then the creativity doesn't kick in fast enough... well there's five minutes of your "not best" stuff on video for posterity. (Ask me how I know this? )

Therefore I've really come to enjoy the crafting of the choreography as a creative process, and the performing of that choreography as the culmination of that creative process, rather than experiencing it as limiting. Ironically, now I notice that sometimes when I dance at private parties/restaurants, improv makes me feel aimless - even if the audience is responding positively.

Of course, I do usually stray from the plan......l;,... and my "choreography" is usually more of a framework than a set count-by-count thing, but the framework is there and creates a sense of having a thought-out concept for the piece rather than winging it. I agree about the live music though... in those cases, improv rules! (And I still do strictly improv for restaurants and private events..)

Interestingly, I came from a choreography-only dance background (ballet and jazz) prior to discovering belly dance, and learning to improv was an exciting creative leap. So now that I am finding fulfillment in crafting choreographies again, I feel like I've come around in a circle...

I always choreograph when doing a stage show. I know the music inside and out, and the choreography the same. Depending on the venue and also how I'm feeling on the day, the end result is never the same.
Different facial expression, different hand movement, extra undulations etc... but I always have the choreography.
I find I will repeat moves otherwise (boring for me) and not spectacular for the audience either.
I like to come of stage feeling exhilirated, not disappointed with my dance (knowing I could have done much better)
Being amonst the audience is different i love to improvise and the audience can become part of the show, which is lots of fun.
Lotusdancer

Originally Posted by Candi

i don't think anybody realises my choreos are choreographed mainly because they have grown out of my improvising. First I listen to the music many times then I start imrpovising then I keep the bits i like.But what I feel it does is shows more moves or versatility on stage because with the choreo I've got the best bits of at least 20 or 30 improvs all put together-takes an age. Where as in a restaurant setting I may repeat moves over and over if I feel like it -this won't work on stage, where you've lost the personal relating element. I also do keep bits in every choreo where I improvise and I don't think these bits stick out in any way. This way allows me to get more variety in my dancing, allows me to still be me and gives me a more polished performance in the end that is not stlted or lacking in emotion. Hope I've explained that in a sensible way-its late here in the Uk and I'm just back from a restaurant gig.

This is how my instructor comes up with her choreos. She helped me put mine together (easier for me to dance one that is laid out for me so that I CAN concentrate on the feeling of the music, eye contact and what not) by having me play the music for her. She said "well, pop it in and lets see what comes out. If it works, we will use it, if it doesn't, we toss it". I loved this idea. I think we came out with a decent product in the end between her and mine ideas.