Thread: Hot Info on Tahtib/Assaya!

Did I get your attention??? ..g.:

Although I'm not sure exactly to what thread(s) this request regards, I was asked at Sahra's JtE seminar to clarify some tahtib and some assaya questions here on Bhuz.

The National dance troupes of Egypt will sometimes include a short segment of choreographed tahtib during it's Saidi assaya dances, but tahtib itself is not a dance.

TAHTIB: a man's martial (combatant) art in which he uses an assaya.

ASSAYA: a stick; originally a walking stick (perhaps up to 5 feet in length) usually shortened for use in folk/folkloric dance. The stick can be straight or crook'd. A crook'd stick is known in the West as a cane, hence raks assaya using a cane is often called a cane dance in English.

You may now return to your regular Bhuzzing.

Deborah

so...if you dance with it like it is a sword instead of a cute walking stick, does that make a dif?

Originally Posted by anala

so...if you dance with it like it is a sword instead of a cute walking stick, does that make a dif?

As they say in Spain, "no se."

Or, as they say in certain parts of the US, "I dunno."

.w.:

I'm starting to feel like there has been some big thread about sticks, canes, swords and stuff that I'm not aware of. What's the stories, morning glories?

Deborah

Hey Casbah! How was the last day of the workshop?

I'm wondering about this thread about assaya/tahtib too...

As one of the biggest offenders about Tahtib / Assaya, I will bow to this. I know where the confusion came from, but what is important is that, moving forward, i will use the correct language.

;)

{{{HUGS}}}

Well, we had a bit of fun on the urban legends thread ranting about how some dancers (including the book Grandmother's Secret) say that the cane is a phallic symbol.

That I buy into in a "big" way.

Originally Posted by anala

so...if you dance with it like it is a sword instead of a cute walking stick, does that make a dif?

ummmmm....why would you do that? Did I miss something on another thread, or am I just particularly blonde this morning?

Thanks for the clarification, good to know.

There seems to be 2 ways of dancing. Stick vs. cane. Cane is a bit more dainty and sassy with a more feminine style of foot work with a cheeky and affectionetly mocking expression of the face and body. The stick lends itself to the more masculine form and the footwork is a heavier Saiidi style with the staff used in a more martial and masculine way. IMO..for whats is worth...blah blah...

So when men dance with sticks, is it men's raqs assaya?

Ms. Anala, I know people occasionally use the terms "stick" and "cane" to make that distinction. But more often, I think, "stick" and "cane" are just interchangeable terms that refer to the same piece of wood -- which may or may not have a crook at the end -- and don't tell you anything about the style of dancing with it. It's funny to admit this but I've actually paid way too much attention to who calls it what (yeah, I'm a language geek with a terminology tic) and it seems to be mostly a matter of habit and usage and in some cases, the influence of the speaker's native language. If it's a big, fat, straight staff it's normally not going to be called a cane, but all the rest seem to have a fair shot at being either.

I don't mean that there aren't daintier vs. heavier styles of assaya -- that's true for sure. But I don't think the stick-versus-cane terminology distinguishes them from one another, at least not when they're done by women.

And I realize this probably sounds really pedantic, but I've been doing terminology stuff all day and can't turn my brain off. I'll post it anyway in case my geekiness amuses you.

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

So when men dance with sticks, is it men's raqs assaya?

Strictly speaking, yes, if for no other reason than stick = assaya. I know we almost always think cane = assaya, but a cane is really just a crook'd stick . . . so there you go!

Deborah

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Well, we had a bit of fun on the urban legends thread ranting about how some dancers (including the book Grandmother's Secret) say that the cane is a phallic symbol.

Ah, yes . . . that thread. ..g.:

Deborah

Originally Posted by Zana

I don't mean that there aren't daintier vs. heavier styles of assaya -- that's true for sure.

This came up at Journey through Egypt with Sahra, too!

The bouncy style is from Lower Egypt, the Nile Delta area; the heavier style is more Nile Valley, about mid-way through the country.

Deborah

Love this. More tidbits, please! My JtE opportunity isn't coming up for a few months. Dance brain needs feeding! (nom nom nom)

Originally Posted by ejaghana

Hey Casbah! How was the last day of the workshop?

We missed you, Erica!

And you missed dress-up day! ,r:;

We also discussed Delta, Suez Canal, Siwa and Bedouin dance, as well as the Meleya Luff. Good info on Meleya Luff!

Will you be taking the Level II session in January? I will!

Deborah

Originally Posted by Zana

Love this. More tidbits, please! My JtE opportunity isn't coming up for a few months. Dance brain needs feeding! (nom nom nom)

Oooh, Zana, are you taking the JtE at Sahara???

Nope, not my corner of the world.

I believe Najia hopes to bring Sahra back to Philadelphia in the fall for those who couldn't make it to JtE1 up there this summer. I'm doing the Cairo Style workshops the week prior (Aug. 14-17) and really wanted to stay for both, but in the end I couldn't pass up Orit. Hmm, I hope Najia wasn't just trying to make me feel better about missing it!

There are still spaces left for both August weekends with Sahra in Philly, you know, if you wanted to take a little road trip. It would be great to see you there!

Originally Posted by Zana

Love this. More tidbits, please! My JtE opportunity isn't coming up for a few months. Dance brain needs feeding! (nom nom nom)

nom nom nom -- ha! ..l;,

I was really concerned that I would have such mushy brains when this weekend concluded that they would be oozing out my ears, but it was actually very manageable!

Mostly lecture with some DVD viewing and some dance movement. She included study guides for each section that included not only dance info, but cultural/political info that can help explain some of the dance info.

My only problem was remembering to take notes; I'd get so interested in what she was saying that I'd stop writing and just listen! Had that same problem in college, too . . .

Apparently, there is more active dancing at Level II, as well as some required reading.

More tidbits from Level I? I'm assuming that folks reading the following have nearly zero info on the subject, so please bear with me if you end up wading through stuff you already know to get to stuff you wanna know.

Meleya Luff (various spellings): literally "large piece of cloth." Developed by M. Reda for use in folkloric stage representations of everyday life in Egypt. The person performing in a Meleya Luff is not being a dancer, and the Meleya Luff is not a dance per se; instead, the performer is representing a comedic character. The performer wrapped in a modesty garment can be a "look at me" sassy girl out shopping or an innocent young thing kinda scared to be out in the big city, or whatever character the performer wants to portray. Audiences in Cairo love this representation, but other ME folks don't get it because it's not part of their cultures. You'll have to wait for your class to get the rest!

Zeffa(h): literally "procession with noise." We usually think of it as a wedding procession, but a zeffa can be celebrating just about anything. We got to do a little wedding zeffa -- yours truly was the happy mother of the groom!

Zar: literally "visitor." A pre-Islamic women's trance ritual done to placate a spirit possessing a person that is pan-African into Saudi Arabian in practice. The spirit isn't necessarily "evil." Okay to be included in Oriental dance show.

Zikr: kinda like a zar, in that a trancelike state is the goal, but done by Sufi men seeking to experience God. Never to be used in Oriental dance as it is a true religious experience.

Also tons of info on Nubian, Saidi, Ghawazee, Delta, Suez Canal, Siwa (western desert area) and Bedouin stuff.

Whew!

Deborah

Originally Posted by Zana

Nope, not my corner of the world.

I believe Najia hopes to bring Sahra back to Philadelphia in the fall for those who couldn't make it to JtE1 up there this summer. I'm doing the Cairo Style workshops the week prior (Aug. 14-17) and really wanted to stay for both, but in the end I couldn't pass up Orit. Hmm, I hope Najia wasn't just trying to make me feel better about missing it!

There are still spaces left for both August weekends with Sahra in Philly, you know, if you wanted to take a little road trip. It would be great to see you there!

Sahara Dance is bringing her in late January.... woo hoo! Can't do August, since we have the photoshoot, couple of shows etc.

Now I remember -- that's why I'm not invading your photoshoot! I'll be in Fluffya.

The last time Azhia was in town was the weekend of our big studio show at Saffron. Oy, why is the good stuff always at exactly the same time?!

Fantastic, Deborah. Thank you!

...nom nom nom nom nom nom nom...

Originally Posted by Zana

Ms. Anala, I know people occasionally use the terms "stick" and "cane" to make that distinction. But more often, I think, "stick" and "cane" are just interchangeable terms that refer to the same piece of wood -- which may or may not have a crook at the end -- and don't tell you anything about the style of dancing with it. It's funny to admit this but I've actually paid way too much attention to who calls it what (yeah, I'm a language geek with a terminology tic) and it seems to be mostly a matter of habit and usage and in some cases, the influence of the speaker's native language. If it's a big, fat, straight staff it's normally not going to be called a cane, but all the rest seem to have a fair shot at being either.

I don't mean that there aren't daintier vs. heavier styles of assaya -- that's true for sure. But I don't think the stick-versus-cane terminology distinguishes them from one another, at least not when they're done by women.

Ditto to all this.

I'll also confess to making the tahtib-as-dance faux pas in the past, but I've learned the error of my ways.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Ditto to all this.

I'll also confess to making the tahtib-as-dance faux pas in the past, but I've learned the error of my ways.

Nisaa

Well, that's what we were taught, eh?

Maybe that tahtib-as-dance error exists because we just figured raks assaya was a women's dance, perhaps based on men's dance, but a women's dance, so the men's stick dance must have a different name -- tahtib . . .

<shrugs>

Deborah

Zana...your geekiness always amuses me! But then I am easily amused...oh, look it's a castle!

Originally Posted by Zana

Nope, not my corner of the world.

I believe Najia hopes to bring Sahra back to Philadelphia in the fall for those who couldn't make it to JtE1 up there this summer. !

Yeah, I'll be there trying to finish the last part of JtE 1. I had to work on the last day...stupid job...why won't someone just hand me some cash?

Originally Posted by casbahdance

We missed you, Erica!

And you missed dress-up day! ,r:;

We also discussed Delta, Suez Canal, Siwa and Bedouin dance, as well as the Meleya Luff. Good info on Meleya Luff!

Will you be taking the Level II session in January? I will!

Deborah

..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:

I'll be taking JtE2 but not here in Cali. I'll be going to the one in Phili cause I'm doing the Jillina intensive and the workshops overlap a bit. How the hell am I gonna pay for all this???

Originally Posted by ejaghana

Yeah, I'll be there trying to finish the last part of JtE 1. I had to work on the last day...stupid job...why won't someone just hand me some cash?

I hear you on the cash! I'm glad you're coming out. It will be fun. I'd love to see you dance -- maybe if we're reeeally good kids they'll let us put on a show somewhere.

Originally Posted by ejaghana

..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:..cr.:

I'll be taking JtE2 but not here in Cali. I'll be going to the one in Phili cause I'm doing the Jillina intensive and the workshops overlap a bit. How the hell am I gonna pay for all this???

I'm applying for a real job tomorrow.

Dang.

Even if it is really part time, perfect hours and very good per-hour pay.

<sigh>

Hope I get the job, but it's been really nice sitting around eating bonbons in my neglige and spike-heeled-maribou-feather-decorated lounging slippers the past eight months . . .

<sigh>

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Well, that's what we were taught, eh?

Yeah. Sadly, yeah.

This is why I'm getting more and more anal retentive in my teaching every single year. I know I've spewed misinformation in the past (because it had previously been spewed AT me) and I am just terrified of doing it again...

Nisaa