Thread: Sad veil dance...

I haven't yakked about it too much here, but I've had a LOT of loss in the past year. 2008 has been very sorrowful for both myself, and my wife.

Anyway - I'm thinking of "capturing" all this sorrow and turning it in a positive direction - with a poignant veil number set to "A Time For Us". Does anyone have experiences in this area? I certainly have the emotion to just let flow with this - but I don't want to the audience to become so depressed that they wished they'd been at a funeral instead!

Any help, comments, or anecdotes would be appreciated.

I think you have to keep a certain emotional distance from the material you are presenting. In other words, create an artistic dance that expresses an emotion, but don't just get on stage and discharge your personal emotion.

I heard a great quote from singer Janis Ian in an interview the other day. She said that after a lifetime as a performer, she is realizing that SHE doesn't have to feel an emotion in order to make the audience feel it. She said she realized that it's not about what SHE is feeling, it's about the audience feeling something.

I'd say go ahead and channel your creative energy into creating a sad veil dance and work out your feelings through the dance. Then perform it when your personal feelings aren't so raw.

I'm sorry you are going through a tough time. Veil dancing has got to be good therapy, no matter what! Go for it, I'll be rooting for you.

Sob....you made me so sad...am sorry that you've had a lot of losses this year. If I could express the sorrow and losses of friends for the past 8 years, we both could bring down the house with tears.

Instead, think about the good things and dwell on that. You are alive, you are able to perform, you're not handicapped and that you can dance, can move, etc.. Let the knowledge of being alive captivate your heart and dance for those who are gone from your life!
Think about those that are gone and that they are seeing you dancing for them, but they are above watching you!
Sorrow, tragedies give us a greater depth of character within and it is all for naught! Cynthia (Babooka)

I dedicated a veil dance to my father, who passed away in 1999, to the song "Return to Me" by October Project. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAYhVJ0z6XI]YouTube - October Project - Return to Me[/ame]

He died of cancer, and the performance was at a Breast Cancer benefit (Shimmy for the Cure in Rockford, IL 2006), so I thought it was an appropriate venue to present such an emotional piece. So first off I would suggest choosing an audience that will understand and appreciate the emotional underpinnings of the dance. I remember one of the vendors at the Rockford event (who I had never met) came up to me afterwards and asked if she could hug me, because she was so moved by the piece. That's the kind of supportive audience you'll need if you're going to allow yourself to be completely vulnerable.

The other thing I would suggest is to find where there is joy or hope in the midst of all the loss, and try to portray that along with the sadness. Otherwise I agree with you that it could be a bit depressing to the audience, especially if there's an announcement made of what the piece's intention is.

Zorba, I would be careful about that. After Bobby Farrah died I danced in a show and decided to dance to Lissa Fakir, one of his favorite songs to perform to. I can't really say it was cathartic for me, and the audience totally didn't get it. Learned my lesson... now I do dances like that in my studio, for me.

I'm sorry to hear that there have been these sadnesses in your life. Maybe you should string together a bunch of sad songs and dance your heart out, in your studio. Grab a veil and express the sadness. But remember that as dancers, we're entertainers. An audience wants to have fun, not feel sad.

Originally Posted by dunyah

I'd say go ahead and channel your creative energy into creating a sad veil dance and work out your feelings through the dance. Then perform it when your personal feelings aren't so raw.

I agree very much with this. I knew I was ready to perform my piece when I could get all the way through it without bursting into tears. You want to touch the audience with your emotions, but you don't want it to turn into therapy presented on a stage.

Originally Posted by bintbeled

Zorba, I would be careful about that. After Bobby Farrah died I danced in a show and decided to dance to Lissa Fakir, one of his favorite songs to perform to. I can't really say it was cathartic for me, and the audience totally didn't get it. Learned my lesson... now I do dances like that in my studio, for me.

I'm sorry to hear that there have been these sadnesses in your life. Maybe you should string together a bunch of sad songs and dance your heart out, in your studio. Grab a veil and express the sadness. But remember that as dancers, we're entertainers. An audience wants to have fun, not feel sad.

OMG, I also once decided to dance my sorrow over various losses to the tune of Lissa Fakir. I'm so embarrassed by that performance now, I wish I could locate and burn all copies of the video. It wasn't cathartic for me, I just felt naked and humiliated while I was dancing. And I'm certain my audience didn't 'get' anything except that I was taking myself too seriously and giving an overwrought performance that *wasn't about them or their enjoyment* which I now realize is a poor way to treat an audience.

In my case, I didn't yet have the technique to back up the emotion I was trying to work with.

Of course, YMMV, but I advise great caution.

What I wish I'd done: practice the piece more & longer in private and put some distance between myself and what I was going through emotionally, THEN decide whether the piece is 'ready for prime time' based on the question of 'will it be enjoyable for the audience.'

Originally Posted by Lauren_

What I wish I'd done: practice the piece more & longer in private and put some distance between myself and what I was going through emotionally, THEN decide whether the piece is 'ready for prime time' based on the question of 'will it be enjoyable for the audience.'

Everyone's essentially saying this...

... And I *do* agree. I'm going to "try it on for size" and see what happens. The music has a glorious "surge" towards the end that I want to be able to "ride up on" - we'll see what happens. I want it to be poignant, perhaps a bit wistful - but if I can't get through it without depressing myself to the point of tears, it won't work. But if nothing else, I can save it for "later".

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has ever thought of trying this...

Zorba, I'm so sorry for your all your loss and pain, that you are going through.

(((Major Hugs)))

Lauren, sounds like we had similar experiences! Let's hope those videos don't end up on youtube...

Laura -

Your youtube vid doesn't play...

Originally Posted by zorba

Laura -

Your youtube vid doesn't play...

It looks like they've disabled embedding. Just click on the title of the video, where it says YouTube - October Project - Return to Me.

Zorba~

My last solo performance (3-4 months ago) was an EXTREMELY emotional piece. I was in tears while I was dancing...and the audience loved it. A bunch of them told me how touched they were that I shared such a personal thing with them.

I think it depends on the venue. This was a rather informal hafla type feel, not a "show." There was nothing I could do, the music was begging to be performed to, and the funniest thing was, I never cried when dancing to it at home...but when I performed, it all came out.

good luck to you...

Originally Posted by laura 2

It looks like they've disabled embedding. Just click on the title of the video, where it says YouTube - October Project - Return to Me.

Yea, that was it. Thanx - beautiful song!

Not to hijack your thread but the video Galatea posted is nice and I followed links to find that this singer has a middle eastern song too. Maybe this would be fitting for your veil dance.

[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7fHi9yb8e1o&feature=related]YouTube - Mary Fahl - Ben Aindi Habibi[/ame]

In my limited experience of doing sad in BD contexts, I think it's important to bring the audience out of it, as it were. Bring them in, let them experience and bring them out again. I don't know the song and so I don't know if it has a hopeful quality, but I think it is important where possible to start moving the audience out of the sadness and into a sense that things are looking up. I think BDers and their audiences are generally looking to feel good, not upset, and so when you delve into the real dark (not just pretending to be dark) you need to come out again. So many of us do this dance as a way of shaking off our cares, so the very last thing we want to be reminded of is the things that aren't past yet.

Passionate emotional expression can create great art. Or, it can look like therapy being enacted before one's eyes.

One key, of course, is bringing skill/craft into the presentation.

I also think it's good to include some sort of positive message, such as that of healing, hope, strength-building, etc. If you think about relationships with friends, we tend to not like watching our friends wallow in self-pity, but we do like to help them see what they can learn, how they can grow, how they can heal, etc. Take that same idea into your dance.

I did a double veil performance a few months after Hurricane Katrina to Linda Ronstadt's song "Blue Bayou". (For those who aren't familiar with this song, it sings of longing for the bayou and how "I'm going back someday, come what may....") I used this song to express my sadness over the devastating losses suffered by people along the Gulf coast. At the end of the song, I laid the veils aside and did an upbeat dance to a Dixieland Jazz version of "When the Saints Go Marching In", leaving the performance on an upbeat note.

Originally Posted by zorba

Yea, that was it. Thanx - beautiful song!

It sure is. I loved my dad a lot, but we had a...complicated relationship, for lack of a better term. I found a lot of the lyrics to be particularly meaningful to me.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Not to hijack your thread but the video Galatea posted is nice and I followed links to find that this singer has a middle eastern song too.

Get out! I had no idea - what are the chances the same vocalist recorded a song in Arabic?

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I also think it's good to include some sort of positive message, such as that of healing, hope, strength-building, etc. If you think about relationships with friends, we tend to not like watching our friends wallow in self-pity, but we do like to help them see what they can learn, how they can grow, how they can heal, etc. Take that same idea into your dance.

Shira - this is most excellent advice. Thank you.

I came home and I danced it sans veil. I'll add the veil to it tomorrow morning when I practice it some more before the heat of the day. So far, it seems to work - although I *do* have to work through some problems being that it is NOT a middle eastern song and I'm used to middle eastern or at least Greek music to Belly Dance to. It comes out pretty much as I want it to, wistful and a bit poignant - and it has a surge of power near the end that just soars! Then it backs down such that I can fold up on the stage at the end.

I'll see what it turns into tomorrow - but its looking hopeful that it will work and won't have the emotional appeal of a funeral. Thanx to everyone who has contributed thus far (keep it coming!) - your love, support, and heartfelt advice has helped - and meant - a LOT to me. While I'm all gushy - this is one of the things I truly love about this dance form and the community it forms. I've always felt loved, supported, and welcomed into the "Belly Dance sisterhood" even though I'm just a male and a clumsy one at that!

Originally Posted by zumarrad

In my limited experience of doing sad in BD contexts, I think it's important to bring the audience out of it, as it were. Bring them in, let them experience and bring them out again. I don't know the song and so I don't know if it has a hopeful quality, but I think it is important where possible to start moving the audience out of the sadness and into a sense that things are looking up. I think BDers and their audiences are generally looking to feel good, not upset, and so when you delve into the real dark (not just pretending to be dark) you need to come out again. So many of us do this dance as a way of shaking off our cares, so the very last thing we want to be reminded of is the things that aren't past yet.

I think it is essential, not just for the audience...but for it to be a cathartic peice that is of theraputic value. If you travel deep into the emotions, you should also work on finding a path through them into another mind set.

Zorba, veil, when I love it, is often about surrendering to the music and the veil instead of it being about making the veil do things. I think if you look into working through your grief and pain with the veil and dance, you should think about surrendering to the veil...and how surrender is also about acceptance and fluidity. I think that might be the path that helps you get into the emotions...and eventually work through them.

Ozma - you speak truth...

Originally Posted by ozma

Zorba, veil, when I love it, is often about surrendering to the music and the veil instead of it being about making the veil do things. I think if you look into working through your grief and pain with the veil and dance, you should think about surrendering to the veil...and how surrender is also about acceptance and fluidity. I think that might be the path that helps you get into the emotions...and eventually work through them.

wow.

group hug!

I recently saw Stephanie Masters perform a veil dance to Amazing Grace. It was dedicated to her grandmother and her mother. Her grandmother recently passed. There was a sense of sadness in the performance, but it was more over a powerful presentation. I think if you refocus your energy to the celebration of the lives, spirit and energy of the loved ones you have lost, it will be conveyed to your audience. Hugs to you and your wife Zorba!

Nilaja

Originally Posted by theesfield

I think if you refocus your energy to the celebration of the lives, spirit and energy of the loved ones you have lost, it will be conveyed to your audience.

Its actually a bit different than that. We lost one of our Greek dance sisters to cancer - a wonderful lady who was an extraordinary dancer and a big fan of my BD as well. That was the only actual death. The others are still alive - but lost to us in one way or another - which in a way is even worse. One is going to jail, several are being lost through a nasty divorce, and the hardest one of all is the loss of a longtime dance teacher with whom we parted on not exactly amicable terms. On top of this, we're probably going to lose our 17 year old cat in the next six months.

But I hear what you're saying, and thank you for it.

Originally Posted by zorba

I'll see what it turns into tomorrow - but its looking hopeful that it will work and won't have the emotional appeal of a funeral. Thanx to everyone who has contributed thus far (keep it coming!) - your love, support, and heartfelt advice has helped - and meant - a LOT to me. While I'm all gushy - this is one of the things I truly love about this dance form and the community it forms. I've always felt loved, supported, and welcomed into the "Belly Dance sisterhood" even though I'm just a male and a clumsy one at that!

Zorba, did you dance it? How did it go?
I am sorry about your cat and all else...cr.:

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

Zorba, did you dance it? How did it go?
I am sorry about your cat and all else...cr.:

Yes I did. It was an interesting experience. It works. It definitely works. It was quite sad in the beginning, but the music has a swell that just carries me up with it - powerfully. Overall, I was quite happy with it - it may just be my best piece yet (we'll see).

I'm now committed to perform it next Friday! So I'll be doing some more practice between now and then.

Thanx for your kind words about the "situation" - I'll survive, no doubt. .w.:

Oh Zorba,
Dancing to me is the most amazing way to release emotion. It's a wonderful way to express and heal within.
I have danced with the sword to a Portoisehead track, which is very intense, and it brings people to tears in the audience (male and female.) And people will always come up after that song and thank me for there emotional release.
I completely understand your urge to dance and portray your emotions. It's a beautiful thing. And may go a long way in your own personal journey.
And because many of the personal sorrow is linked within your dance world, I completely understand why this is important and essential for your own healing.
I would be honoured to sit within the audience and be apart of this Beautiful moment.
My heart goes out to you.
Dance for Joy and for Sorrow.
Lotus Dancer.

Hi Zorba, I am glad that you have had such a hard year but I am so happy for you to have dance as a healthy and happy outlet for some of your loss. I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this time. Keep your head up, you have lots of people who wish you happiness.

The link below is an example of a beautiful modern dance duet. I know its a bit off topic but it is a wonderful example of heart wrenching yet uplifting dance, at least to me. I think these two manage to lift the audience up while spoon feeding us bitter medicine. I am intersted to know what you all think of it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5PgpMtj6Rs]YouTube - Bitterly duet[/ame]