Thread: Raks Assaya without Cane

Hi all,

I was just wondering...

I've watched so many videos on youtube but there's only one (or almost one) that is Assaya without Cane. Or I mean dancing to Saidi without cane. I'm referring to Reda's choreography in this video: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVSBpv5p5f0]YouTube - Egyptian belly dance - Saidi[/ame]

The first time I laid eyes on that video I fell in love with it. After these years, I'm still in love with it. I was wondering why most saidi dance videos have dancers holding cane. Why is dancing to saidi rhythm without cane so rare? And if it's not, then please advise me :)

Thanks!

It's my understanding that a cane is an optional prop for Saidi-style dance.

But canes are fun to dance with, so we end up using them a lot!

Plus, as a teacher, I always include cane in my Saidi because of the quad-whammy -- I get to teach the rhythm, the steps, the attitude, AND the cane moves. I always explain about Saidi, and Assaya being only one choice, but I'm not sure my students listen when I talk.

I can see why a lot of students would get the idea that Saidi MUST include cane, or at least should. And the more it's done that way, the more the impression is reinforced.

Autumn Ward dancing to Ya Hanady

[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tNDLciS3qjI]YouTube - Autumn Ward, Contemporary Egyptian Folkloric choreo[/ame]


Dahlena, 3:40 without cane. The last minute and half has cane. Nice video.
[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lv1J_CGo6aU]YouTube - Dahlena American Bellydancer[/ame]


Dahlena again, second song is Gana al hawa saidi version. Love it.
[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9CU_3a_rkqA&feature=related]YouTube - DAHLENA - Egyptian Eve[/ame]


Hala el Safy instead of cane she uses a jug.
[ame="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbpQmLTI0s"]YouTube - Hala El Safy & Metkal Kenawy[/ame]

Our troupe "Tywalline" already did (and still do) a few saidi numbers with no cane. We also have one we consider our best classic choreography and it done with... terra cota jugs!



The songs tells about the young (unmarried) girls who go to pick up wather and at the same time, they chat, gossip and dance around the wather pit!

BTW I am the second on the left on the pic!

Qamar

I inadvertently did a cane dance without a cane at our last show. As I was getting dressed, and wondering where my cane was, I realized it was still at home. Eek!

Latifa -- my former teacher did that once, and threw in some bits of 'air cane' that amused the heck out of those who knew...

Qamar -- so cute! Love the costumes.

Michelle - thanks for the great clips! Is the Hala El Safy one Saidi? I'm not really seeing Saidi, or hearing it. Am I missing something? Or could that be Fellahin?

Originally Posted by bintbeled

I inadvertently did a cane dance without a cane at our last show. As I was getting dressed, and wondering where my cane was, I realized it was still at home. Eek!

Necessity is the mother of improv! ..l;,

These are some of my all-time favorite clips, thanks for posting them, I love seeing them again.

Originally Posted by Fushia

Hi all,

I was just wondering...

I've watched so many videos on youtube but there's only one (or almost one) that is Assaya without Cane. Or I mean dancing to Saidi without cane. I'm referring to Reda's choreography in this video: YouTube - Egyptian belly dance - Saidi

The first time I laid eyes on that video I fell in love with it. After these years, I'm still in love with it. I was wondering why most saidi dance videos have dancers holding cane. Why is dancing to saidi rhythm without cane so rare? And if it's not, then please advise me :)

Thanks!

I have seen a lot of performances to Saidi without cane. However I just want to point out that raks assaya literally means cane dance, the one with the hook. Saidi is just a type of music belonging to the Said region, and raks assaya uses this type of music.

Lauren you're probably right. I couldn't make out the Dum Tek Dum Dum Tek for Saidi. It is somewhat confusing b/c they use the tradtional instruments for saidi, Rabab, mizmar and her costuming is also saidi BUT I can't say that for the rhythm.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Lauren you're probably right. I couldn't make out the Dum Tek Dum Dum Tek for Saidi. It is somewhat confusing b/c they use the tradtional instruments for saidi, Rabab, mizmar and her costuming is also saidi BUT I can't say that for the rhythm.

The rhythm sounds like Ayoub to me, but I thought of Fellahin because of the jug balancing (always reminds me of Mahmoud Reda's Fellahin jug dance when I see it). But don't quote me on any of that! Hopefully someone who knows more will come along shortly...

Anyway, I love the clip and I'm glad you posted it!

I could be wrong, but you can dance Saidi with jug as long as there is a saidi rhythm.

Someone chime in please.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

I could be wrong, but you can dance Saidi with jug as long as there is a saidi rhythm.

Someone chime in please.

Oh, I'm sure you can! Sorry if my post was confusing, I was just trying to place what other kind of dance it might be if it's not Saidi.

Gotcha girl!!

Originally Posted by bintbeled

I inadvertently did a cane dance without a cane at our last show. As I was getting dressed, and wondering where my cane was, I realized it was still at home. Eek!

Yalla, Latifa!!!

Regarding the questions about Hala el Safy's clip...

Cultural matters are rarely simple.

"Fellahin" means "farmer". Those Reda Troupe choreographies with the jugs that we're all fond of calling "fellahin" are actually "the farmers of the Nile Delta region". In other words, what we usually call "fellahin" is referring to a SUBSET of farmers, those who live in the Delta area. But there are lots of other farmers in Egypt who do NOT live in the delta, but rather live in the Said, at the oases, etc.

Don't assume that a jug dance always equals "fellahin". There is no historical / traditional "jug dance of the fellahin". When Reda visited the Delta he was looking at how the people of that area moved. Ie, he was trying to determine how he could portray them in a way that would be recognizable as "Delta people". He arranged the male dancers in rows to represent farmers picking cotton and proceeding through the fields in rows, and he noticed that women carried water jugs to the river to collect water, so he incorporated that into his choreography for women. But the Nile Delta is not the only place in Egypt in which women might have carried jugs to the water. That could also happen anywhere along the Nile throughout the entire country, or at any oasis. So the presence of a jug is merely meant to evoke the notion of a woman going to the river to get water. It's that simple.

The rhythm in Hala's clip is indeed ayyoub. Ayyoub is often used outside the context of a zar. And ayyoub is a very traditional rhythm. You'll hear it in the occasional song from the Said, Nubia, etc. I consider this particular song to be "Saidi" in the sense that it comes from the Said part of Egypt and is played by a band well-known for playing traditional music from the region (I recognized Moussa Kenawi among the rebaba players). But it is not Saidi in the sense of using the rhythm that we all teach as being the Saidi rhythm, and therefore you probably wouldn't dance to it in the same way you dance to that rhythm. In other words, I would not create a choreography that has the step-hops to this music, but there are many other folkloric moves that would be perfectly fine.

Not every song from the Said is in the rhythm we call Saidi. Yes, that rhythm is common in the Said, but it's not the only musical rhythm used there. Ghawazee music, for example, doesn't use that rhythm. The song in this clip uses ayyoub, but as I said above I consider this song Saidi. The song Tfarrak al Helawa is quite Saidi, but doesn't use this rhythm.

Back to Fushia's original question...

There is no such thing as "raqs al assaya" without a stick, because "raqs al assaya" actually means "stick dance". However, you certainly can dance to Saidi music without waving a stick around, and if that's what you want to do, go for it! Mahmoud Reda did NOT choreograph stick dances for the women - his choreography might have the women take the sticks away from the guys and play with them briefly, but he wouldn't create a "stick dance" specifically for women. When I interviewed him, he said, "The women's dance is an imitation of the men's dance. In Reda Troupe, we had men available to do this dance, so why not have them do it?"

The reason you see so many dancers use sticks when dancing Saidi is simply that they like using sticks. Some people think props are fun and learn to use as many as they can. Some like using the stick to interject visual variety into a show to hold the attention of audiences who might otherwise think that they're just doing the same thing over and over. Some just plain like the sticks and the stuff you can do with them like twirling and framing moves. And so on.

Shira,
Well said, esp. RE: sa'idi rhythm vs. sa'idi music (and by implication sa'idi-style dance).

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Regarding the questions about Hala el Safy's clip...

Cultural matters are rarely simple.

"Fellahin" means "farmer". Those Reda Troupe choreographies with the jugs that we're all fond of calling "fellahin" are actually "the farmers of the Nile Delta region". In other words, what we usually call "fellahin" is referring to a SUBSET of farmers, those who live in the Delta area. But there are lots of other farmers in Egypt who do NOT live in the delta, but rather live in the Said, at the oases, etc.

Don't assume that a jug dance always equals "fellahin". There is no historical / traditional "jug dance of the fellahin". When Reda visited the Delta he was looking at how the people of that area moved. Ie, he was trying to determine how he could portray them in a way that would be recognizable as "Delta people". He arranged the male dancers in rows to represent farmers picking cotton and proceeding through the fields in rows, and he noticed that women carried water jugs to the river to collect water, so he incorporated that into his choreography for women. But the Nile Delta is not the only place in Egypt in which women might have carried jugs to the water. That could also happen anywhere along the Nile throughout the entire country, or at any oasis. So the presence of a jug is merely meant to evoke the notion of a woman going to the river to get water. It's that simple.

The rhythm in Hala's clip is indeed ayyoub. Ayyoub is often used outside the context of a zar. And ayyoub is a very traditional rhythm. You'll hear it in the occasional song from the Said, Nubia, etc. I consider this particular song to be "Saidi" in the sense that it comes from the Said part of Egypt and is played by a band well-known for playing traditional music from the region (I recognized Moussa Kenawi among the rebaba players). But it is not Saidi in the sense of using the rhythm that we all teach as being the Saidi rhythm, and therefore you probably wouldn't dance to it in the same way you dance to that rhythm. In other words, I would not create a choreography that has the step-hops to this music, but there are many other folkloric moves that would be perfectly fine.

Not every song from the Said is in the rhythm we call Saidi. Yes, that rhythm is common in the Said, but it's not the only musical rhythm used there. Ghawazee music, for example, doesn't use that rhythm. The song in this clip uses ayyoub, but as I said above I consider this song Saidi. The song Tfarrak al Helawa is quite Saidi, but doesn't use this rhythm.

Shira is always the well informed mediator. Thank you for the information.

Good to know that I had a clue. ,r:;..l;,

Originally Posted by Fushia

Hi all,

I was just wondering...

I've watched so many videos on youtube but there's only one (or almost one) that is Assaya without Cane. Or I mean dancing to Saidi without cane. I'm referring to Reda's choreography in this video: YouTube - Egyptian belly dance - Saidi

The first time I laid eyes on that video I fell in love with it. After these years, I'm still in love with it. I was wondering why most saidi dance videos have dancers holding cane. Why is dancing to saidi rhythm without cane so rare? And if it's not, then please advise me :)

Thanks!

Arabesque Dance Company is producing a video of performances from last year's International Belly Dance Conference. It's not out yet, but in it I perform a Saidi piece with sagats.

Thanks Michelle for the video clips! The second one is great too and looks a bit baladi-like? As opposed to a folk feel to it. ehh..not even sure what I mean myself.

Quamar, that's such a beautiful photo! the costumes are so soft looking and the vases are the perfect shape and size! Thanks for showing us! Just beautiful...like beautiful maidens.

Dahabiya: Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.

Bintbeled: that must have been some amazing improv there ;) or maybe you could have searched in the audience to borrow an old man's cane? J/K.

Lauren: I was looking for that saidi rhythm in that video too and was thinking "that can't be saidi" or I'm just really confused. thanks for mentioning it. And yes, the public performances I've been to..all of them were using cane with Assaya costume. I think there needs to be more Saidi dances without cane...it is refreshing to see (not that I don't like the cane, I do.)

I realize that most of the songs I like are saidi rhythm. I just love love it. Even the Arabic pop songs that use saidi..sounds so good. middle eastern rhythms are soooooo good...it just wakes up my senses and my blood runs faster when I hear it. Ok..enough with my 'thoughts out loud' lol. I wish I had an Assaya costume..too bad I can't sew.

Thanks Shira! That definitely cleared it up pretty well. :)

Adishakti: I hope to see that performance!

Originally Posted by Fushia

I realize that most of the songs I like are saidi rhythm. I just love love it. Even the Arabic pop songs that use saidi..sounds so good. middle eastern rhythms are soooooo good...it just wakes up my senses and my blood runs faster when I hear it.

There are so many good pop songs with Sa'idi rhythm. When I teach rhythms, I mention how prevalent Sa'idi rhythm is, and then pick up a commercial compilation CD at random and we see what percentage of the songs have Sa'idi rhythm. Never less than 50%, often over 75%.

Adding to my pontificating above....

Stick can be used not only with music in the Saidi rhythm, but also with other folkloric Egyptian music. So, you could see it being used with debke (the song Al Ayn Mouleyattin, for example), baladi (such as Tahtill Shibbak), and other rhythms. One of my favorite songs to use a cane with is Tfarrak al Helawa, and that doesn't use the rhythm we call Saidi.

I frequently danced to saidi rhythm without cane when I danced with a live band. They'd just play it whether I had the cane or not that night. It is fun do without!

I just want to clarify a few things I have read here...
First, Raks Assaya literally means "stick dance," not 'cane dance' per se. The original assaya from the Saidi region of Egypt (which runs south of Cairo to Luxor along the nile) is straight and made of wood and natural color. It is used by the men to protect their farms and family. There is a martial art (not a dance!!) called the Tahteeb which is done by men with the assaya.
For the folkloric stage the assaya is shorter but still straight and of natural color. Women dancing with the assaya is already out of context because it is a stick carried by Saidi men, but when they started dancing with the assaya in Cairo it became crooked, colored and sometimes sequinned.
Saidi refers to a region as well as a rhythm, and dances from that region can be done to that rhythm as well as can be done with or without a stick.
So there cannot be a Raks assaya without a stick (or cane), but there can be a saidi dance without one.

bellydancewear,

The mens version you are refering to is called Tathib. Womens is raqs assaya.
You are right though, saidi CAN be danced to without a cane.

I've danced with zils to saiidi but I gotta admit that cane is much more fun which is why I think most dancers use one. But it's good to see more videos without it.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

bellydancewear,

The mens version you are refering to is called Tathib. Womens is raqs assaya.
You are right though, saidi CAN be danced to without a cane.

I believe that's what she said - that the men's martial art is tahtib.

Raqs assaya or raqs bil asa is not exclusively a women's dance (hence stick dances by Yousry Sharif, Tito, Mohamed Shahin, etc.). But we are just used to the flirtier female style.

The tahteeb is a martial art done by men, it is NOT a dance!. Although it is often done as an art form on the stage in the form of a Raqs assaya performance. So, they are mimicking the martial art "Tahteeb" but in a dance. And yes this is traditionally done by men. But both men and women do raks assaya. For example, Tito with his four sticks is doing a raks assaya performance with 4 sticks. It is NOT tahteeb, because he is not fightng with anybody, just swinging his sticks around showing off. Does that make sense???
I was confused by this for years thinking the Tahteeb is for the men and raks assaya is for the women, but not so. Both do raks assaya, and the tahteeb isn't truly a dance. I learned this from Sahra Saeeda in her Journey through Egypt class which I highly recommend.

Originally Posted by bellydancewear

The tahteeb is a martial art done by men, it is NOT a dance!. Although it is often done as an art form on the stage in the form of a Raqs assaya performance. So, they are mimicking the martial art "Tahteeb" but in a dance. And yes this is traditionally done by men. But both men and women do raks assaya. For example, Tito with his four sticks is doing a raks assaya performance with 4 sticks. It is NOT tahteeb, because he is not fightng with anybody, just swinging his sticks around showing off. Does that make sense???
I was confused by this for years thinking the Tahteeb is for the men and raks assaya is for the women, but not so. Both do raks assaya, and the tahteeb isn't truly a dance. I learned this from Sahra Saeeda in her Journey through Egypt class which I highly recommend.

Well said! That's what I meant, but it wasn't coming out right. PM brain fry.

The problem is that on the internet there is a lot of misinformation about this style, I was so surprised. I am grateful for Sahra for educating us on the true orgins of these dances, and we do need to correct some of the misinformation that is out there.