Thread: "Mayas" - Do You "Cheat?"

Hi, I have been dancing for awhile so I am of course acquainted with the "maya" as are 99.9999 percent of Bhuzzers - but I still wonder what percentage of serious dancers stick to the "rule" of keeping feet flat on the floor during Mayas and how many raise the heel off the floor.

My reason for inquiring is probably pretty dumb - I'm only 5'1" and though I love doing Mayas, when I do them beginning from a flat-footed position, I feel like I'm making myself the shortest person in the room, and I am SO inclined to raise the heel instead of doing them "correctly" - but at the same time, I feel that authenticity (if there is authentic history for this move or if the flat-footed "proper" form is in some way visally superior) is more important. So I am torn and would appreciate any input.

Thanks!
Devora

I do NOT cheat. But I keep hearing that the flatfooted maya is supposed to be bad for backs - nobody has broken this down for me and explained clearly the "right" way to teach a maya without flat feet and how exactly the flat-footed maya is bad, so I stick with what I know and do both versions in good posture and hope.

"Authentic" doesn't mean squat. What matters is the look you wish to achieve. A flat-footed maya is kind of lower, snakier and smoother and more intense to me, whereas the "heel up" version is gooier and probably more Egyptian-looking.

Devora, I personally keep my heels on the ground because I like the much more core-driven, juicy, internal look that is produced when I do that. The abdominal work loses a lot when the heels are allowed to come up. There is an intensity with flat-footed mayas that just isn't there with lifted-heel ones. This is hard to explain, but it makes me FEEL different - the flat-footed kind keeps me in my body and keeps me focused, where as the lifted-heel kind lets my mind wander into stuff like, "I wonder if I left the oven on?"

Zumarrad, with all my crazy back issues (old car accident injury + scoliosis + tailbone injury) I have never, EVER had any back problems with doing my mayas flat-footed. I've been doing mayas flat-footed for 27 years. I think if it was likely to cause a back injury, it would have happened to me, and it would have happened before now. In fact, I'd say the contrary is true - belly dancing in general, including flat-footed mayas, has been very beneficial for me because it has enabled me to build a strong back, evened out some of my asynchronous muscle tone, and kept my spine and back muscles supple and flexible.

I'm guessing that the people who claim flat-footed is bad for the back may have tried doing it in a sway-backed posture, which could irritate the sciatic nerve. Or, they did it in the correct posture but had the usual stiff muscles afterward (ie, the normal reaction to exercise that's unfamiliar) and concluded that they didn't want to do that again.

it makes me FEEL different - the flat-footed kind keeps me in my body and keeps me focused, where as the lifted-heel kind lets my mind wander into stuff like, "I wonder if I left the oven on?"

THIS. Although I like the half-maya on one side and for that quite often I will let the heel come up, for some reason. It's sort of floaty-yet-juicy.

My teacher who is Egyptian always raises her heel way up. but then she doesn't bend her other leg much it's entirely hip driven. For me it's a combination of how you feel and what everyone else is doing if you are dancing together

I don't consider lifting the heels as a cheat, just another variation on the movement. I teach my students to keep the heels down first until they understand where the movement is driven from, then I let them do it with their heels raised. I find for myself, flat footed makes my hip flexors really hurt. I also prefer the larger, smoother look I get when raising my heels. However, if the music is dictating a more internal movement I will keep the heels down.

I thought the "rule" was more for practise. It's more difficult to do flat-footed, so it's better to practise this way. I think when you're actually dancing, there is no "rule" just preference on how you want the move to look. Go ahead and lift if that's right for you.

There is a big difference between pushing your hip up with your leg by lifting your heel, and *allowing* your heel to be *pulled* up by a core-driven movement.

To me, the former is cheating, the latter is not. The latter maintains the muscular look of the flat-footed version, plus is a little easier on the hip and knee joints.

aloha
i vote for flat feet...i learned this in hula from my kumu, and also with bellydance from my 1st teacher glo.

i think it looks more grounded and better, and another element is that you'll be less likely to have level changes (or 'bouncing') if your heel in rooted with the floor.

however, i always let my students know that we all have different bodies, so if you have short or tight calfs and hamstrings, a flat foot maya may not just be difficult but almost impossible w/out serious stretching/training. cheers!

Agree with all of the above.

I always drill -- and drill my students -- flatfooted to be sure the correct muscles are being engaged. But in performance or choreography, the heel is sometimes lifted, either because the music calls for an 'airier' movement, or because I want a contrast between an 'earthy' maya and a 'lifted' one, or because of a transition that's happening before/after.

I also have a couple of students who just don't have the flexibility to do them with the heels on the floor in choreo. They are able to drill them that way when they're doing it very slowly and consciously, but in choreo where the movement comes up quickly, they revert to lifting the heel and I don't correct them because I want them to be safe rather than juicy.

I was surprised at Rakkasah West this year to see Oreet teaching mayas with raised heels. She explained that for the choreography she was teaching, the muscle-drive mayas were not visble enough; the movement needed to be bigger.

The amusing thing was seeing the reactions of the students -- including me -- because we knew the "right" way to do mayas. The heel-assisted version did look better with what she was teaching.

sorry, from the 70's, and still today, n
heel comes up, unless i am putting a shimmy on it.that is how ms rathor taught it to me.
btw, do all of you use this "term"? jamila called it a maya because that was the neme of the first dancer she saw doing it...so the story goes.
we teach it as an inverted weight change.

ya know, the beauty of ths dance...and part of why i switched.....is that it is not cookie cutter .
i ballet, if you can not do something "right , " you are out.
but we have all types and sizes.not all legs can do things the same.

I personally do them flat-footed (unless traveling), but I teach both because some people just do not have the flexibility to do them flat-footed. If they are not looking to be a pro, I would rather they be safe and comfortable.

There is also the aesthetic aspect... sometimes you want the juicier, tighter ones and sometimes you want the bigger ones.

both are correct, when done correctly ;) You get two different kinds of effects. The issue to watch for is the students who not only force their hip up only from the foot, but also torque/bend their ankles to the side. The one I insist for heels on the ground is what Azar always called "the basic", which I've heard 20 different names, perhaps inverted maya is the best description (emphasis on the down/inward motion versus up/outward).

Originally Posted by mihnea

I thought the "rule" was more for practise. It's more difficult to do flat-footed, so it's better to practise this way. I think when you're actually dancing, there is no "rule" just preference on how you want the move to look. Go ahead and lift if that's right for you.

I got the impression that this was the case too. I rarely use static mayas while dancing (and I can't recall seeing Egyptian dancers do this, although if someone knows of a clip I'd love to see it). Traveling mayas look pretty goofy flat-footed, especially when you're maya-ing on the right hip and traveling to the left and vice versa. I've not seen Zahra do them flat footed, and she doesn't teach them flat footed.

I have also steered away from teaching flat-footed mayas because according to some Bhuzzers Hadia said it was dangerous for the low back and I don't want to injure anyone. Where's Adi??

Thank you for all the detailed responses, this is all incredibly helpful to me, especially the comments that describe the internal movements and how they should be felt differently with feet flat or heel up. I honestly think I will get a lot more enjoyment from doing the move (and will feel more confident executing it) after reading these comments.

Cory, I know what you are saying about the term itself - remember the dancer/instructor who set out to copyright the word "maya" a few years ago, LOL? I know not everyone uses the term, but since almost everyone seems to readily recognize it, I used it for this thread, in "quotations."

-Devora

"Raised heel" Maias are indeed a "legitimate" move - just a different one. This said, the "correct" Maia (flat footed or on ball) doesn't involve the heel and has a more isolated, snaky look. They shouldn't hurt - if they do, you're pelvis isn't tucked enough. Ask me how I know this...

I do them feet flat, unless I do them completely in releve. In both cases the heel stays stationary :)

Mayas are a blast. Definitely a core move, which always freedom to move the feet wherever. I do them heel down, up on the balls of the feet, one heel down and the other up, up on the balls of the feet with one foot slid forward~ slowly (challenging)....

Teaching it heels down helps to clarify which muscle groups are used during the movement. From there, you can make it juicy & whatever size/tempo you like.

Originally Posted by zamora

sorry, from the 70's, and still today, n
heel comes up, unless i am putting a shimmy on it.that is how ms rathor taught it to me.
btw, do all of you use this "term"? jamila called it a maya because that was the neme of the first dancer she saw doing it...so the story goes.
we teach it as an inverted weight change.

I call them downward figure 8s but recognize the term maya

I concur with those who say not right/wrong, but simply a different look for each.

I use flat feet when doing level changes, because it's a much more stable base than tiptoe. But when traveling with them, yes, always on releve.

I do them both and teach them both. I teach with the heel up so the students will understand how the hips feel and how it should look, then I work on it with the heel down.
Primarily I dance with my heels down, but when I want a bigger movement, my heels go up.

Mayas and reverse Mayas kill my knees when I teach them. repetative, slow movements...

I agree with those that say there is no right or wrong way to do a maya, just different. I do feel that there are ways that may be more effective even safer than others.

Being Middle Eastern I never learned the mayas flat-footed. My grandmothers taught me with the heels assisting the movement. I actually learned the flat-fotted maya in the states. So, who knows what is right or wrong or what is the the most authentic way.

I am Yemeni and maybe the heel lift is from that part of Arabia as oppossed to a North African style. Who knows! I think do what feels good to you.

Oreet

I agree with those that say there is no right or wrong way to do a maya, just different. I do feel that there are ways that may be more effective even safer than others.

Being Middle Eastern I never learned the mayas flat-footed. My grandmothers taught me with the heels assisting the movement. I actually learned the flat-fotted maya in the states. So, who knows what is right or wrong or what is the the most authentic way.

I am Yemeni and maybe the heel lift is from that part of Arabia as oppossed to a North African style. Who knows! I think do what feels good to you.

Oreet
*** BRAVO*****

Another thing. The "heel lifted" Maia is easier to travel with!

Originally Posted by oreet

I agree with those that say there is no right or wrong way to do a maya, just different. I do feel that there are ways that may be more effective even safer than others.

Being Middle Eastern I never learned the mayas flat-footed. My grandmothers taught me with the heels assisting the movement. I actually learned the flat-footed maya in the states. So, who knows what is right or wrong or what is the the most authentic way.

I am Yemeni and maybe the heel lift is from that part of Arabia as opposed to a North African style. Who knows! I think do what feels good to you.

Oreet

Hi, Oreet! you caught me talking about you. ..l;,

I was glad you did them with heels lifted in that RakWest workshop; it started me thinking about how easy it is to get into a rut of doing moves the same way all the time. Experimenting with movement variations can be fun and rewarding!

Latifa

Originally Posted by bintbeled

Hi, Oreet! you caught me talking about you. ..l;,

I was glad you did them with heels lifted in that RakWest workshop; it started me thinking about how easy it is to get into a rut of doing moves the same way all the time. Experimenting with movement variations can be fun and rewarding!

Latifa

Hey there Latifa!. I am so glad that it opened up new movement variations. Even though we are intsructors we are always learning. It was nice to see you at Rakkasah and especially nice to see another fellow teacher taking classes. We are always a student!!

Respectfully,
Oreet

My teacher teaches both ways depending on how she wants it to look. I personally at home drill with my feet flat so that I get use to the feel. I dont have any problems with this tho.

Originally Posted by ssipes

There is a big difference between pushing your hip up with your leg by lifting your heel, and *allowing* your heel to be *pulled* up by a core-driven movement.

To me, the former is cheating, the latter is not. The latter maintains the muscular look of the flat-footed version, plus is a little easier on the hip and knee joints.

Good point.

And as to the "authenticity" of keeping your feet flat - actually most Egyptians often seem to raise their heels.

I emphasise flat footed mayas in class as I think it forces students to get maximum stretch. If you practice that way you can also do it lifting heels - but the reverse is not true.

As for the danger, I think if good posture with ab stability is maintained it is reasonably safe for an experienced dancer. But it definitely isn't a beginner move. Further, since I had serious problems with my lower back some years ago I struggle with a flat footed maya. Something just isn't sliding around properly in there.