Thread: How to emote sadness, grief??

I'm more of a happy-happy-joy-joy kind of girl, and I've got the cute-flirty thing down pat....

I draw a complete blank when it comes to emoting sadness or grief. I am lost. I look at photos, and my face looks more like I'm mad at someone, or is just "expressionless". How do you practice emoting sadness or grief without looking stupid or contrived? I want to adequately express the lyrics of a song, but I'm not sure what BD movements go with "sad"....slow, internal figure 8s and ommis are more sensual to me. I saw Ava Flemming do a very sad, passionate dance to "Roxanne" (a song I hate, but I still loved her performance) and it made me cry...I want to be able to do that!!!!

Advice? ..c::

Take some acting classes. I'm sure there's a local theater group in or near your town.

Check out this thread. I'd make the same recommendations to you, but my post was too long to quote here (it was just under the character limit), so you'll have to read it on that thread. :)

the thing about emoting sadness and grief is that it's not just about the face, it's the carriage of the shoulders, arms, and neck. It's more rounded and soft, protective of the heart region, without going into bad posture. I go for a more demure look on the face, upward or downward gazing eyes, soft lips.

We just dont dance when we are sad do we? Next time you feel angry or wounded...dance it. Get a feel for what that is on your body. Dont just dance when you are happy.

I haven't mastered this myself, so I can't give advice.

But here are two of my favorite examples, maybe watching them would be helpful?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJrQt3ZH6E]YouTube - Dina dancing to Om Kalthoum[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06EzRLyXKIY]YouTube - Hayart Albi - Lucy of DC[/ame]

*sigh*

This is a great thread and I'll be watching it intently.

Nadira - I hadn't seen that other thread before and I'm very glad you linked to it because your response was very insightful.

Rosehips - You're absolutely right. It's about the full body, isn't it? Otherwise we might as well wear a sad mask while doing the dance of joy. The genuine sadness/grief would come from within, and it would overtake our entire demeanor, wouldn't it?

Lauren - these videos are gorgeous! I don't have the ability to use sound, but I can still feel the heartbreak. Thanks for these. My new fave Dina clip, for sure.

Originally Posted by jmdruadh

Check out this thread. I'd make the same recommendations to you, but my post was too long to quote here (it was just under the character limit), so you'll have to read it on that thread. :)

That was a great post, Nadira, and makes complete and utter sense to me, since I just finished several weeks of discussing with my therapist how our emotions, thoughts, and actions are circularly linked. Therefore, if we feel a particular emotion, we can alter either our thoughts or our actions in order to change that emotion. Similarly, our thoughts can trigger both emotion and action, and our actions can trigger certain thoughts or emotions. Therefore, it makes sense that formulating a background story and "conversation"--examples of both thought and action--can produce the desired emotions and convincing body language. Same sort of reasoning that permeates the fact that if you make yourself smile, your mood can improve, or if you force yourself to think you will do well, you most likely will...you are both consciously and unconsciously influencing your own success.

Enough rambling...

I don't think photos convey emotions very well, I always look mad or confused or something! Video is better but I think that part of performing an emotional piece is the connection you create with your audience and the give and take of energy that is happening. It is a very "in the moment" kind of experience and hard to look back at photos and videos and capture that feeling again.

I think this is part of the reason that some people find Dina fake looking or contrived. It just doesn't translate well to pictures or video. Seeing her dance in person the first time was a huge breakthrough for me in understanding the concept of emoting and I think I actually wept a little!

My advice would be to find a song that really moves you and that has lyrics that you can relate to. Use the emotions that come up and put that into your dance. Its like hearing a song on the radio that reminds you of something from your past, and just listening to the song can bring all those memories flooding back, even bring you to tears. Find the song that does that to you and improv to it a lot. Let the emotions flow out of you in a genuine way and you won't look contrived.

amanda

Originally Posted by amanda_raqs

My advice would be to find a song that really moves you and that has lyrics that you can relate to. Use the emotions that come up and put that into your dance. Its like hearing a song on the radio that reminds you of something from your past, and just listening to the song can bring all those memories flooding back, even bring you to tears. Find the song that does that to you and improv to it a lot. Let the emotions flow out of you in a genuine way and you won't look contrived.

amanda

I agree. When I dance to certain sad songs, I think of my mother's passing and the relationship that we never had a chance to have. I don't think of all the reasons, because that would just make me angry and true anger does not look pretty, but I think of the sorrow in a wistful way that comes across as genuine.

I would say that even if you are dancing to a song that makes you think of anger, try to show a different side, not the angry side, because it does not always translate well into emotion and can be off-putting to the audience. They might just see a pissed off dancer and then turn away!

Originally Posted by amanda_raqs

I think this is part of the reason that some people find Dina fake looking or contrived. It just doesn't translate well to pictures or video. Seeing her dance in person the first time was a huge breakthrough for me in understanding the concept of emoting and I think I actually wept a little!
amanda

Yes, her emotion is really hard to 'see' in video. But in person, it is breathtaking and definitely tear-inducing!

Well this is probably not the right way to do it but,

You could hide a piece of onion in your costume and when you turn your back to the audience squeeze it in your eyes. JK

In a wise woman workshop Amaya had us practise dancing to different emotions to the same song. It was interesting to watch 15 women express various emotions to the same piece of music. It was an exercise in responding to the inner voice rather than the external stimulus of the music. And really, dance when you are in a funk. You will be suprised how theraputic that can be. And how educational. I dont think musicians always compose on their good days.

Smear a little poo under your nose. Inhale. Voila, instant grimace.

KIDDING.

What always works for me is to ask myself "who am I?" before practicing to a song, or before a performance. And don't just apply some variant of your current mood to the music. Be somebody else if you're not "feeling it" firsthand. Assign a character - either from history or fiction, or totally made up - to the song you're dancing to, and execute both the movements and the feeling as though you're temporarily living life as that person.

I definitely second the recommendation to take up acting. Even modeling can help. Anything to "unfreeze" the face and get those great expressive juices flowing ..g.:

Originally Posted by damiena

I agree. When I dance to certain sad songs, I think of my mother's passing and the relationship that we never had a chance to have. I don't think of all the reasons, because that would just make me angry and true anger does not look pretty, but I think of the sorrow in a wistful way that comes across as genuine.

I would say that even if you are dancing to a song that makes you think of anger, try to show a different side, not the angry side, because it does not always translate well into emotion and can be off-putting to the audience. They might just see a pissed off dancer and then turn away!

Ha ha, yes, anger probably isn't the best emotion to try and convey in a dance performance!

Similar to you, certain sad songs make me think of my sister's passing and the emotions that come up can help me to make a deeper connection with the song. I think there is definitely a line that you don't want to cross, dance performance shouldn't be therapy, but if you can tap into true emotions in a controlled way, you can really add a genuine feel to your performance.

And really, dance when you are in a funk. You will be suprised how theraputic that can be. And how educational. I dont think musicians always compose on their good days.

Of course...I meant in the privacy of your own space... ;-)

It's really difficult to practise, because you have to feel the emotions that you're portraying, and sometimes that can be really challenging, and hard on the people around you, because you soak some of that emotion up into yourself.

I was teaching a workshop on using emotion in dancing as part of a dance holiday, and I think I may have disturbed my students who up until then were thinking of me as a happy go lucky friendly smiley Béa... So in this last workshop, we were tapping into the emotions and I started quite easy, we were doing Joyful, Playful, Mysterious, and then I wanted them to do Sad. And I tuned into the saddest time of my life, the worst worst worst time I'd ever experienced then (had a lot worse since then!). So when I saw the students not taking it seriously, while I was reliving my personal Hell, I'm afraid I let rip! They didn't know what had hit them!

I've also seen a girl run out of a workshop in tears because the teacher asked us to find that Grief inside us.

So be safe when you practise this, it can hurt...

God, what I wouldn't give for Dina's version of Hayarti albi Ma'ak. (sigh) Gorgeous.

- Lucy

Originally Posted by anala

And really, dance when you are in a funk. You will be suprised how theraputic that can be. And how educational. I dont think musicians always compose on their good days.

Of course...I meant in the privacy of your own space... ;-)

Oh yeah, sorry, I wasn't responding to your comment specifically, just more of a general thought. I agree that dancing can be very therapeutic, either in cheering me up or helping to work through some sh*t!

I dont think you can learn it. It has to come from an experience and you have to go there, to find that place inside you again. If you have never experienced grief it could be really hard to emote that feeling. Really tricky

Originally Posted by weese17

God, what I wouldn't give for Dina's version of Hayarti albi Ma'ak. (sigh) Gorgeous.

- Lucy

LOL -- I realized when I was posting the clips that it's the same song -- and how similarly you and Dina are posed in the screen shots!!

Imagine having your own orchestra and being able to say "I want this part more violiny, and that part to emphasize the rhythm accents more, with a 'tick tick tick' right here and a big soft 'dum' there"

Originally Posted by beafarhana

It's really difficult to practise, because you have to feel the emotions that you're portraying, and sometimes that can be really challenging, and hard on the people around you, because you soak some of that emotion up into yourself.

I was teaching a workshop on using emotion in dancing as part of a dance holiday, and I think I may have disturbed my students who up until then were thinking of me as a happy go lucky friendly smiley Béa... So in this last workshop, we were tapping into the emotions and I started quite easy, we were doing Joyful, Playful, Mysterious, and then I wanted them to do Sad. And I tuned into the saddest time of my life, the worst worst worst time I'd ever experienced then (had a lot worse since then!). So when I saw the students not taking it seriously, while I was reliving my personal Hell, I'm afraid I let rip! They didn't know what had hit them!

I've also seen a girl run out of a workshop in tears because the teacher asked us to find that Grief inside us.

So be safe when you practise this, it can hurt...

Yes.

I too have seen this - I was in an "emoting class" where one gal said "I can't deal with all this emotion" and left.

You can use many things to envoke a given emotion - its what works for YOU. My teacher had us work things up until we could recall emotions by association with a particular movement or pose. That worked pretty well for "some" emotions (for me), not so well with others. As per a recent thread, I came up with a dance I call "Ultimate Sorrow" - danced to "A time for us". That song ALWAYS puts me in a wistful/sorrowful mood - I had lots of compliments on it afterwards as I was all but boo-hooing in the corner. ..cr.: The right song can be a VERY powerful trigger.

Originally Posted by habibiyaeini

I dont think you can learn it. It has to come from an experience and you have to go there, to find that place inside you again. If you have never experienced grief it could be really hard to emote that feeling. Really tricky

Yes.

This is what my instructor had us doing in the afore mentioned class.

Originally Posted by zorba

Yes.

I too have seen this - I was in an "emoting class" where one gal said "I can't deal with all this emotion" and left.

You can use many things to envoke a given emotion - its what works for YOU. My teacher had us work things up until we could recall emotions by association with a particular movement or pose. That worked pretty well for "some" emotions (for me), not so well with others. As per a recent thread, I came up with a dance I call "Ultimate Sorrow" - danced to "A time for us". That song ALWAYS puts me in a wistful/sorrowful mood - I had lots of compliments on it afterwards as I was all but boo-hooing in the corner. ..cr.: The right song can be a VERY powerful trigger.

I got hysterical in a class like that once. It's not easy or fun.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I got hysterical in a class like that once. It's not easy or fun.

No, its not. But, speaking for myself at least, I'm a better person for it.

One thing I've noticed I do during sad-ish parts is to open up my arms wide and lift them slowly , open up my chest wide, and lift my chin while I'm doing figure 8s, Maya's whatever. It has a vulnerable feeling (Kimahri taught us in her stage presence workshop that showing the throat is automatically vulnerable, and opening up the heart center feels the same to me). The whole thing has a 'why me, universe?' energy to it, but (hopefully) subtle.

Reaching out with the arms (like the freeze-frames of Dina and Lucy above) is a nice gesture...tilting and slowly shaking the head, with a wistful smile, adds to the sense of yearning without being over the top.

Turning the head sideways and casting the eyes down while traveling (to the side or in a circular pattern makes the most sense with the head sideways) is nice. Make sure to drop your eyes not your chin! Having a double chin doesn't enhance the effect at all.

I'll see if I can think of anything else really practical.

Hmmm... based on what I wrote above, I'm thinking the hips and legs dance to the beat/melody while the arms and head convey emotion?