Thread: Baladi conundrum

I had something a little puzzling happen over the weekend and wanted to see if any of you have run into the same thing.

At a workshop show (Hadia in Florida) I did baladi wearing white man's galabiya dancing to a cheeky little song called by Eddie Kochak where he sings the mawaal in a mix of Arabic and English accusing his Fifi of bewitching him and then begging that she not leave. I love it because the English bits let American audience know something about what the song is about, ie the usual baladi ripping the heart out and stomping on it all night long! And it has a wonderful violin part by Hakki Obedia and zills by Bobby Farrah.

Got loads of positive feedback, including hug from Hadia, but some of the audience members (mainly dancers and their families) told me after the show how much the liked it but weren't sure what it was. I had questions about why I was wearing a man's shirt, why I was singing and using gestures, what did the song mean. Of course I had some ideas that some wouldn't get it because Hadia had talked about baladi and shaabi earlier in the day and had asked for a show of hands from those who knew who Fifi is. A lot of hands did not go up. I've performed several times previously wearing the white galabiya and have only had one question about what it was prior to this weekend.

I'm not put off at all, just used it as an educational opportunity. Just wondering if anyone else has run into this.

Souzan

little song called by Eddie

No...but I'm dyin to know the name of the song!!

Wow, there are dancers who don't know who Fifi is? (Okay, I know it's perfectly possible for those who are new to the dance.)

Is there not a lot of the more folkloric style of Egyptian dance in your area?

I think the more you make your performance specific to a particular cultural icon (in this case, Fifi's male-gallabeya act), the fewer people in your audience there will be who "get" what you're trying to do. And the more you use gestures to pantomime things in the music, the more cryptic your performance will be.

Even if you use a song that has some English in it, there's no guarantee the audience will *notice* the English. When it starts out sounding foreign, people will naturally assume there's nothing in it they'll be able to understand, so they'll miss the parts they should be able to. For example, I never used to understand anything in the song Ya Mustapha until someone pointed out to me that part of it was in French. D'oh, I'm fluent in French, I should have noticed and recognized it, but I had assumed it was all just Arabic, which I didn't speak, and therefore I missed the part I could have understood.

I've seen it. Many of the dancer in my area (under 5 hours north of Gainesville) didn't know about Fifi until I came through and started talking about her as she is one of my favorite dancers evah.

I think it's just something that happens because many dancers nowadays don't seem to feel the need to study much about the dance "over there" as much of the current emphasis is on fusion styles which don't really have any ME roots at all.

This kind of thing doesn't surprise me at all anymore. I danced to Tahtil Shubbak in a man's white thobe at a local hafla (granted, a very fusion-dominated one), and 75% of the audience looked at me like I was an alien from the planet Whatthehell.

I usually respond the same way as you, Souzan...just treat it as a teachable moment. Maybe you will have piqued some students' curiosity.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by Souzan

I had something a little puzzling happen over the weekend and wanted to see if any of you have run into the same thing.

At a workshop show (Hadia in Florida) I did baladi wearing white man's galabiya dancing to a cheeky little song called by Eddie Kochak where he sings the mawaal in a mix of Arabic and English accusing his Fifi of bewitching him and then begging that she not leave. I love it because the English bits let American audience know something about what the song is about, ie the usual baladi ripping the heart out and stomping on it all night long! And it has a wonderful violin part by Hakki Obedia and zills by Bobby Farrah.

Got loads of positive feedback, including hug from Hadia, but some of the audience members (mainly dancers and their families) told me after the show how much the liked it but weren't sure what it was. I had questions about why I was wearing a man's shirt, why I was singing and using gestures, what did the song mean. Of course I had some ideas that some wouldn't get it because Hadia had talked about baladi and shaabi earlier in the day and had asked for a show of hands from those who knew who Fifi is. A lot of hands did not go up. I've performed several times previously wearing the white galabiya and have only had one question about what it was prior to this weekend.

I'm not put off at all, just used it as an educational opportunity. Just wondering if anyone else has run into this.

Souzan

I think there are lots of dancers who never read about the dance or watch performance videos, who don't know one thing about folkloric styles or famous dancers past and present. Not because they don't want to know, but because their teachers don't teach it.

Some teachers don't teach it because when you try to 'lecture' or watch videos the students get antsy and leave disappointed because they hope for a 'work out' when they come to class.

Other don't teach it because they don't have a clue.

9 out of 10 students -- maybe more -- don't hang around on Bhuz or read any part of Shira's site beyond how to make costume pieces.

Many students think folkloric styles of dance and costuming are for 'old ladies.'

I'd venture to guess that not 20% of the dancers (continuing & advanced students, not pros and teachers) couldn't pick Fifi out of a lineup or tell you what baladi is.

That's why I think it's SO important to use program space and announcements at ALL shows to tell the audience what they're seeing! The style of dance, the music, the costuming, what it's all about!

*bangs head on wall*

So glad you were approachable enough that people felt they could come ask you!

And this is where a multi-page program with descriptions of each dance style and the music used comes in very handy at educating the audience.

p.s. I also think Bhuz represents an unusually dedicated and curious bunch, and there's a culture shock for me when I interact with dancers offline and realize that we don't share the same frame of reference at ALL.

Lauren is right (and we're typing similar replies at the same time I see).

Teachers can't spoon feed all the necessary cultural knowledge to every student.

I can talk about Fifi as I'm teaching Egyptian movements, and show her on video night, but only the highly motivated student is going to incorporate that into long term memory, much less build on the tidbit I offer.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'd venture to guess that not 20% of the dancers (continuing & advanced students, not pros and teachers) couldn't pick Fifi out of a lineup or tell you what baladi is.

Dude, I only had 5 people signed up for my beledi workshop yesterday, and two of them didn't even bother to show up.

If there's no flaming poi and fan veils and garter belts and hamster juggling, apparently it's just not interesting enough for today's belly dance student population.

Nisaa

Originally Posted by ssipes

Lauren is right (and we're typing similar replies at the same time I see).

Teachers can't spoon feed all the necessary cultural knowledge to every student.

I can talk about Fifi as I'm teaching Egyptian movements, and show her on video night, but only the highly motivated student is going to incorporate that into long term memory, much less build on the tidbit I offer.

Right...it's the ol' "horse to water" syndrome.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Dude, I only had 5 people signed up for my beledi workshop yesterday, and two of them didn't even bother to show up.

If there's no flaming poi and fan veils and garter belts and hamster juggling, apparently it's just not interesting enough for today's belly dance student population.

Nisaa

It is really sad, isn't it?

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Dude, I only had 5 people signed up for my beledi workshop yesterday, and two of them didn't even bother to show up.

If there's no flaming poi and fan veils and garter belts and hamster juggling, apparently it's just not interesting enough for today's belly dance student population.

Nisaa

Exactly..... when robot fart music and funky pants are the norm, are we really surprised when "belly dancers" can't recognise one when they see one!

On the other hand an awful lot of students do not want to delve any deeper than their weekly dose of fun exercise and twice a year party.

Originally Posted by damiena

It is really sad, isn't it?

It is! I was so steamed yesterday...

I've been teaching ME dance for 5+ years now, but I just opened my studio last July. My goal/dream has been to run this studio as a totally ME-dance focused enterprise. I knew it would be hard, I knew it would take time to build a student base, I knew I would be fighting an uphill battle since fusion is the "thing" here, but it is frustrating nonetheless.

All we can do is just keep putting the info out there...

Wow, so many replies. Miriamgamal--must meet you lady. I plan to be at Rocky's workshop in the spring. I am in Tallahassee so its just a car ride up the road for me!

The first time I saw baladi was Jihan Jamal. It was my first big workshop and I got roped into performing in a troupe number. We were on just before Jihan and our instructor pulled us the side curtains and told us we really needed to see her. Watching her opened my eyes to the whole world of tarab. I couldn't believe what I was seeing--a mature woman like myself embodyng this swirl of emotion. Her facial expressions and gestures just sucked me into the whole thing. In an instant I GOT IT just by watching her.

Taj, I think this part of the south may have had a stronger folkloric presence in the past before my time based on older photos and videos I've seen. But I think tribal and tribal fusion have been very popular. Actually the show this weekend was very eclectic with Turkish Rom, a traditional Persian performance, raks assaya, some tribal fusion, Spanish Arabic fusion, Am Cab, some lovely raks sharki and Egptian pop numbers.

Personally I feel more at home in baladi and folkloric styles in appropriate dress for the style than anything else and I do think there is a need to use that as a jumping off point for education--especially in the post-9/11 days when people are curious and sometimes more than a little suspicious of anything that seems Arabic.

Souzan

Nisaa, you made me laugh out loud! That's the moments why I really enjoy Bhuz.

And, adding to the chorus, around here, the majority of people in the audience would wonder why the dancer forgot to take off her nightie and put on her Melodias when they see a white galabiya.

Originally Posted by ssipes

And this is where a multi-page program with descriptions of each dance style and the music used comes in very handy at educating the audience.

Absolutely. Even the more "edumacated" dancers aren't going to recognize every ME-based style. I know I wouldn't, and would appreciate a explanatory blurb.

An alien from the planet Whatthehell and hampster juggeling! LOL

I want to use my giant Persian cat to get some love these days. He is very loose boned.

Was it bad form to ask the name of the song? It seemed like an accidental ommission on the OP.

Another thought...

I tend to think of folkloric styles as being most likely to appeal to mature dancers. By "mature", I'm not talking about chronological age, but rather than about level of experience with the dance - length of study, amount of performance, etc.

When a student initially discovers the dance, it's usually all about her personal journey as a human being and where the dance fits into that. Her teacher may influence that through the choice of classroom music, video recommendations, workshop recommendations, and other leading by example, but ultimately the student will focus her dance priorities on what her personal needs are at the moment.

It usually takes a few years of study before a student is ready to grow beyond the point of "making friends", "wearing cool costumes", "feeling more sexy", "being in the spotlight", and start to explore what I think of as the more academic side of the dance - the side that you have to be somewhat educated to appreciate. And some never reach that point.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Dude, I only had 5 people signed up for my beledi workshop yesterday, and two of them didn't even bother to show up.

If there's no flaming poi and fan veils and garter belts and hamster juggling, apparently it's just not interesting enough for today's belly dance student population.

Nisaa

Nisaa, I am sorry you have poor turnout. The entire weekend Hadia pounded the need to study dancers like Fifi, Soheir Zaki (even fewer knew who she is), Dina and learn about the music. When Hadia talked about maqams I saw a sea of blank faces punctuated by a few whose eye lit up. She was teaching combinations and choreography from her Leyali Zaman and pointing out the folkloric parts, where they come from, the rhythms used, how to appropriately acknowledge those rhythms, the instruments, where they come from, etc., etc. Real meat and potatoes stuff. On the plus side many of the newer dancers I talked to said they were going home to look up Fifi and Dina on YouTube.

I would never wear the white galabiya dancing before a general public audience because I know that would not just go over their heads, but would probably invoke some hostility. I am doing the same song again this week at a local dancer get-together performance at a restaurant but this time I am wearing assuit so it will be another educational opportunity to explain to some what assuit is and where it comes from and who the people are who make it.

Souzan

Originally Posted by anala

Was it bad form to ask the name of the song? It seemed like an accidental ommission on the OP.

In the unlikely case that it was, I am sure glad that you stuck your neck out, because I very much wanna know, too ;-)

Originally Posted by anala

An alien from the planet Whatthehell and hampster juggeling! LOL

I want to use my giant Persian cat to get some love these days. He is very loose boned.

Was it bad form to ask the name of the song? It seemed like an accidental ommission on the OP.

Oh Anala. I forgot to tell you. It is "Habibi Ya Fifi" or sometimes labeled as "Habibi Afifi" from Eddie Kochak. Its on Strictly Belly Dancing 2 CD. Starts with a short accordian taqsim, into mawaal with Eddie crooning in great pain about his lady love, then cranks up into high baladi gear with everybody jumping in on zills, drums, oud, violin. Its old, originally on vinyl. I just love the way it makes you want to get up and move!

Souzan

Originally Posted by Souzan

The entire weekend Hadia pounded the need to study dancers like Fifi, Soheir Zaki (even fewer knew who she is), Dina and learn about the music. When Hadia talked about maqams I saw a sea of blank faces punctuated by a few whose eye lit up. She was teaching combinations and choreography from her Leyali Zaman and pointing out the folkloric parts, where they come from, the rhythms used, how to appropriately acknowledge those rhythms, the instruments, where they come from, etc., etc. Real meat and potatoes stuff. On the plus side many of the newer dancers I talked to said they were going home to look up Fifi and Dina on YouTube.

Dang but that sounds like a great workshop!

I would never wear the white galabiya dancing before a general public audience because I know that would not just go over their heads, but would probably invoke some hostility.

Ditto. I've noticed when I've done "covered" performances at GP events (and here I'm just talking sa'idi dress), some people seem weirded out by it. It hits a nerve, I think, because it reminds people that these dances are coming out of REAL cultural traditions from over THERE. That spooks people. They'd feel much safer/more comfortable if we stick with their "I dream of Jeannie" preconceptions.

As far as the dance community though, it's hard for me to have any patience when dance students of 5 or 6 years don't know what a frikkin' masmoudi is. Sigh...but I'm digressing into my own baggage again...

Souzan, keep fighting the good fight!

Thanks!!!!!....must find song!!!!! I was so hoping it wasnt a faux pax...I think I just said false peace...

Who's Fifi? ha-ha j/k.

Originally Posted by jasani

Who's Fifi? ha-ha j/k.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...<runs headfirst into nearest wall>

Originally Posted by anala

Was it bad form to ask the name of the song? It seemed like an accidental ommission on the OP.

Not at all! Looked to me, too, like she was planning to look up the song title and insert it later. She must've just missed your post. It happens!

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Another thought...

I tend to think of folkloric styles as being most likely to appeal to mature dancers. By "mature", I'm not talking about chronological age, but rather than about level of experience with the dance - length of study, amount of performance, etc.

When a student initially discovers the dance, it's usually all about her personal journey as a human being and where the dance fits into that. Her teacher may influence that through the choice of classroom music, video recommendations, workshop recommendations, and other leading by example, but ultimately the student will focus her dance priorities on what her personal needs are at the moment.

It usually takes a few years of study before a student is ready to grow beyond the point of "making friends", "wearing cool costumes", "feeling more sexy", "being in the spotlight", and start to explore what I think of as the more academic side of the dance - the side that you have to be somewhat educated to appreciate. And some never reach that point.

Shira, I think you are absolutely right. But you know, like any other pursuit, someone can be involved for five year and have 5 x 1 year experience or they can have 5 years of cumulative experience.

Souzan

p.s. I also think Bhuz represents an unusually dedicated and curious bunch, and there's a culture shock for me when I interact with dancers offline and realize that we don't share the same frame of reference at ALL.

Yes, I'm afraid I have reached a similar conclusion. I so often encounter blank, stunned expressions from other dancers when I say that one of the many things I love about belly dance is that you can engage with it and learn on so many levels, including finding out more about the culture and history.

I recognise that there are many people who enjoy this dance at different levels and for different reasons but so many people I meet are surprised, not to say entirely shocked .w.:, at the mere notion that there could potentially be more to it than mastering a hip drop.

I also think that there are a lot of people out there who are not necessarily uninterested by such matters but who simply accept anything and everything that they are told without question and as we all know there is a lot of misinformation out there.

I recently had an interesting chat with a classmate who was quite insistent that there was a famous costume designer called 'Imam' (Eman) because she was one (an Imam) and that Isis wings came from Ancient Egypt (eeek!)