Thread: Using the word cabaret

Isn't a Cabaret in Egypt now considered a lowel-club-bar hangout where dancers who many have not had official training dance or, ahem, solicit customers? I know the word has originally meant different things, but I'm just wondering how this affects those who use the word cabaret to describe their style now...

I think that's what the word always meant in Egypt, and most of Europe. As far as I know, it only means 'nightclub with show' in the US.

But this is also the only place we use that word to describe bellydance, it's a very American term.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I think that's what the word always meant in Egypt, and most of Europe. As far as I know, it only means 'nightclub with show' in the US.

But this is also the only place we use that word to describe bellydance, it's a very American term.

True. I don't know, I guess I just don't like the word. Bad connotation in the G.P's eyes.

I'm not really sure what the word means nor what the difference is in the style, and when I took a class from a Egyptian Cabaret teacher, she didn't explain what it meant. But I noticed the movements were alot larger, and well, some I didn't really comfortable doing.

Could you explain your definition of the Egyptian Cabaret style? What's the difference between that and Raqs Sharqi, or the Egyptian Modern style?

BDF

I've never heard of Egyptian Cabaret before, so I can't help you with that.

I'm only familiar with the term as it was used to differentiate sparkly 'nightclub' style dancing (formerly just called 'bellydance') from the emerging Ethnic style (later called Tribal).

In later years, as American dancers started taking up more distinctions (like Egyptian, Turkish, Lebanese) within their 'bellydance' the term came to be used to describe specifically the style that had developed in the US during the 60's 70's and 80s -- a very specific melting-pot style with its own unique costuming, routines, prop traditions, music, etc.

Dancers who object to the term 'cabaret' have mostly turned to using the word 'Oriental' to describe the 'sparkly type' of dance represented by Sharki, Turkish, and American Cabaret (which is being renamed 'Vintage Oriental.'

That usage isn't quite common yet, and is still under fire from those who think it's too confusingly similar to the use of Danse Orientale (Raks Sharki translated) or Tansi Oryental (the Turkish name).

Personally, I favor using the same term, Oriental, that dancers in Egypt and Turkey use to describe bellydance (they wouldn't be referring to tribal), but I do understand the argument. Oriental is often used in Egyptian dance to differentiate Sharki from folkloric styles. In my mind, it's the same usage, but others don't seem to agree.

in other words, it's all in flux and no one knows what to call anything and no matter what you say someone calls you out and complains. LOL.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

in other words, it's all in flux and no one knows what to call anything and no matter what you say someone calls you out and complains. LOL.

Bleh! It seems that BD lately has become so confusing!

Yes, it has! I remember when it was just bellydance or Middle Eastern (my preference!)

Kitty

Originally Posted by amity

Isn't a Cabaret in Egypt now considered a lowel-club-bar hangout where dancers who many have not had official training dance or, ahem, solicit customers? I know the word has originally meant different things, but I'm just wondering how this affects those who use the word cabaret to describe their style now...

You are correct, and that's one reason why I object to people applying the word "cabaret" to what I do.

Besides that, the term is stupidly meaningless. All it means in belly dance circles is "not tribal."

To get an inkling of what an Egyptian thinks a cabaret is, I recommend buying the movie "My Father Is On a Tree." It's an Egyptian movie, originally titled "Abi Foq al-Shagara". You can buy it under the English title at FineArt Film!, Arabic DVD or Arabic DVD . It stars Abdel Halim Hafez, and it's the movie in which the song Gana el Hawa achieved its fame/popularity.

This was the second most popular movie ever released to theater screens in Egypt (I think it lasted on theater screens something like 36 weeks, exceeded only by "Khally Balak Men Zouzou"). So, Egyptians who have never set foot in an Egyptian cabaret *think* they know what one is like because they saw this movie, which centers around a cabaret dancer and the young man who falls in love with her. This movie has been banned from the Egyptian government-run tv station, though people can get it on Arab satellite tv or they can buy/rent it on video.

Anyway, watch this movie, and it'll open your eyes to what Egyptians think a cabaret is like.

Historically, a cabaret is a dive bar, a low end nightclub and often a hangout for prostitutes (particularly in the mediteranean where a caberet is actually a brothel). It is probably only through some kind of romanticism that bders merrily associate with them, if there was still a cabaret scene now, we would be running a mile from it, just as we do from associations with lapdance.

I think the bar in Satin Rouge is also along the right lines.

Originally Posted by Kash13

Historically, a cabaret is a dive bar, a low end nightclub and often a hangout for prostitutes (particularly in the mediteranean where a caberet is actually a brothel). It is probably only through some kind of romanticism that bders merrily associate with them, if there was still a cabaret scene now, we would be running a mile from it, just as we do from associations with lapdance.

OED would disagree ("entertainment provided at a restaurant while customers are at table") - but I do believe that is the usage in most of Europe (hence the name of the movie "Cabaret") and in Egypt (good dancers perform at nightclubs, slags perfrom in cabarets). However, I'm not sure if it is the usage in the USA, and in NZ we follow the OED - ie it just means entertainment while dining - no sleeze implied. Therefore, usage would depend on the culture. However, not sure how useful the term is. I'd prefer to talk about Orientale, Beledi, folkloric and Tribal.

Yes: the implication of cabaret to me (besides non-tribal!) is dance that is NOT folklore. Because if it was folk, it would be called that.

So, to me as I have mostly heard it used and use it myself, cabaret refers to the staged, sparkly dance. When I say "staged" I mean as opposed to just getting up and moving. You might use the same movements, but if you're dressed in a theatrical way and the center of attention...but that doesn't work either since I've presented fairly authentic Ghawazee on stage...

Oh, I give up. I'm a Middle Eastern Dancer that primarily performs what the GP thinks of as Bellydance, although without the sleazy connotations...

Jeezum, Amity! I've got a bad cold and can't think that clearly!,m::

Kitty

Gross alert: what I need is an emoticon that's blowing its nose repeatedly for the last 5 days until its entire face feels like its rubbed red and raw....

To me, cabaret belly dance means American Cabaret style belly dance. To me, the term cabaret is no more offensive than the word belly dance. Granted, neither of them is ideal but that's what we've got and I doubt if we can change the usage now. Morocco has been preaching against using the term bellydance for decades now and it hasn't fallen out of usage yet. It's too well-established.

Originally Posted by dunyah

To me, cabaret belly dance means American Cabaret style belly dance. To me, the term cabaret is no more offensive than the word belly dance. Granted, neither of them is ideal but that's what we've got and I doubt if we can change the usage now. Morocco has been preaching against using the term bellydance for decades now and it hasn't fallen out of usage yet. It's too well-established.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

You know, some times I feel that this is like the whole belly dancer / prostitute thing - if we don't tell the general public about it, maybe they won't know? And if asked, we explain!

{{{HUGS}}}

I am tired of the mostly-American often tribal-based, use of the term cabaret to mean all things non-tribal. When I am dancing American Cabaret style I have no qualms about applying to term to myself or having it applied. When I am performing Turkish Oriental or more earthy Turkish- Romani inspired dance I feel that to lump it under cabaret is a misnomer.

I feel like if I can take the time to TRY to properly distinguish between ATS, ATS offshoots, tribal fusion, Egyptian-styled Oriental, Gothic bellydance, or whatever other forms of bellydance that I do not study... or to ask questions when I don't know what to call something...that I deserve the same sort of familial respect.

I don't really care about the underbelly of the word cabaret or misconceptions. I know some people push for a term otehr than American Cabaret for that style.

Originally Posted by dunyah

To me, cabaret belly dance means American Cabaret style belly dance. To me, the term cabaret is no more offensive than the word belly dance. Granted, neither of them is ideal but that's what we've got and I doubt if we can change the usage now. Morocco has been preaching against using the term bellydance for decades now and it hasn't fallen out of usage yet. It's too well-established.

Ditto, I'm with dunyah on this one and I'm proud to use the term American Cabaret. I think here the distinction is the adjective American.... Cause even though Cabaret started in Europe it meaning is totally different than the meaning here in America.

As the dictionary definition that I came across mean a restaurant with a floor show. So it kinda fits cause we are dancing on a stage. Well at least I am when in a restaurant. The only time I did not have a stage was when I was dancing a Marrakesh. Then your dancing amoung the tables....

I have never came across a stripper bar using the term Cabaret so I feel it is a safe term to use....

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

I have never came across a stripper bar using the term Cabaret.

I can think of at least four that I have come across.

I'm not familiar with American Cabaret. How do define or describe it?

BDF

Originally Posted by Bellydancefanatic

I'm not familiar with American Cabaret. How do define or describe it?

I prefer another name for this rose: American Classic, although I'm also ok with Artemis Mourat's term of Vintage Oriental. Anyway, this article on my web site compares and contrasts it with Egyptian: Belly Dancing: Dance Styles Used In The U.S.

to me cabaret means show girl and my costuming is very show girl so i have no problem with that name

Originally Posted by Nadirah007

to me cabaret means show girl and my costuming is very show girl so i have no problem with that name

Hmmm, even though I love my sparklies, I wouldn't describe my costuming as showgirl.

But then, the showgirls I've seen were in glitzy Vegas shows on my trips to Las Vegas, and their costumes consisted of sequinned thongs, sequinned pasties, and feather headdresses, none of which are components of the costumes I wear.

Have you seen showgirls on a live Vegas stage? Is that what your costumes look like?

Originally Posted by ozma

I am tired of the mostly-American often tribal-based, use of the term cabaret to mean all things non-tribal. When I am dancing American Cabaret style I have no qualms about applying to term to myself or having it applied. When I am performing Turkish Oriental or more earthy Turkish- Romani inspired dance I feel that to lump it under cabaret is a misnomer.

I feel like if I can take the time to TRY to properly distinguish between ATS, ATS offshoots, tribal fusion, Egyptian-styled Oriental, Gothic bellydance, or whatever other forms of bellydance that I do not study... or to ask questions when I don't know what to call something...that I deserve the same sort of familial respect.

I don't really care about the underbelly of the word cabaret or misconceptions. I know some people push for a term otehr than American Cabaret for that style.

Well said.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Hmmm, even though I love my sparklies, I wouldn't describe my costuming as showgirl.

But then, the showgirls I've seen were in glitzy Vegas shows on my trips to Las Vegas, and their costumes consisted of sequinned thongs, sequinned pasties, and feather headdresses, none of which are components of the costumes I wear.

Have you seen showgirls on a live Vegas stage? Is that what your costumes look like?

LOL... the bras could be a bit similar if you want to stretch it. hahahahah.

We cut up an old belly dance costume to create the showgirl costumes we used at our cocktail party last year...does that count? Bwhahahahaha.

Both are glitzy and use bras...but that's the most similarity I can muster. By the time we were done, the former bellydance costume didn't even come close to resembling it's previous state.

..l;,..l;,

I have to say that my first bedleh looked a great deal like an old-fashioned showgirl's costume if it was worn without a skirt and with fishnets and heels. Showgirl in a 50s sense perhaps.

I've started to feel less discomfort with the word "cabaret" again except for when it is applied to my dance. I really get the impression that a lot of dancers who don't really care much for ME dance like to use the term to mean "fluffy shiny girlygirl coy dancing" and since that's not what I do it doesn't relate to me. If they want to put a bedleh on and do what they call "cabaret" fair dos to them.

The thing is, we have to call it SOMETHING! And our students need the tools to differentiate styles in a really basic way, because it takes time to differentiate on a subtle level.

Today I was looking at videos on Dahlal.com. The categories she uses for instructional videos are:

Oriental/Cabaret
Workout
Tribal
Folkloric
Percussion
Hawaiian

If I refuse to use the words Cabaret or Oriental in the way they're used by the majority of the US dance community, how are my students supposed to navigate this menu to find a beledi or Turkish style video? Or a video on veilwork, for instance?

That's just one example. Hunting down an approriate costume on e-bay is another. A beginner student hunting down a costume to wear for a dance to a Hakim pop song can so easily turn up in a turban and yarn fringe belt if no one has ever told her there are basically two wildly different styles of bellydance being taught in the US.

(whether it's OK to dance to Hakim in tribal gear is beside the point, this student would be making an uninformed decision, not bending tradition on purpose)

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Hmmm, even though I love my sparklies, I wouldn't describe my costuming as showgirl.

But then, the showgirls I've seen were in glitzy Vegas shows on my trips to Las Vegas, and their costumes consisted of sequinned thongs, sequinned pasties, and feather headdresses, none of which are components of the costumes I wear.

Have you seen showgirls on a live Vegas stage? Is that what your costumes look like?

This article helped. I feel that the word "cabaret" is somewhat gray. I sort of knew what the word meant before, but "American Cabaret" just confused me. I like "American Restaurant" better, and "Oriental" referring to Raqs Sharqi.



When a previous instructor told me her style was Egyptian Cabaret, that kind of disturbed me. It's like an oxymoron (that's the proper term for this, right?) because the Egyptians associate "cabaret" with a brothel or prostitutes.
That was a first. ..l;,

Sorry but American Restaurant does NOT sound like a dance style. It sounds like a menu.

A beginner student hunting down a costume to wear for a dance to a Hakim pop song can so easily turn up in a turban and yarn fringe belt if no one has ever told her there are basically two wildly different styles of bellydance being taught in the US.

LOL. I've seen footage of some Japanese dancers doing oriental/cabaret/girlygirl veil in pretty close to full ATS regalia, but with hair gardens.

However, while it's possible I think it's less likely now than it used to be. If your students go online to shop - and that seems to be quite common in the US, yes? - they'll also check out YouTube and other sites and will likely have a vague idea of the differences already. I had a student come to the school who first saw BD on YouTube, had already become enamoured of Rachel Brice and tribal, and had made her own yarn belt before she ever had a lesson. Tribal was her goal from the beginning. She did our ten week beginners' course, segued over to tribal classes and is happy as Larry.

But I agree, it's important that students know that there are different approaches to costuming as well as to movement, and know what you expect. It can be a good idea if the teacher turns up in class wearing or carrying an outfit or two and says "this is the kind of thing we're looking at."

I think "Oriental" is more confusing to the general public...at least around Chicagoland. I've tried it a couple times and the person blinked at me a couple times and asked if I meant Asian dance of some sort. Perhaps this comes from the popular use of "Oriental" to describe Asian cuisine? I know that my family often used the term as a substitute for Chinese (i.e. Let's get Oriental food tonight).

I briefly discuss the history of "Cabaret" in my Dark Cabaret workshops--I'm actually offering one this Saturday at noon.

I've never gotten any flack from the general public about using the word "Cabaret" to describe my dancing. I have had to explain to a couple ignorant guys that "belly dancers" don't get naked or pole dance but I think they were just trying to upset me. Jerks. ,m::

Don't much like the term myself, but try not to be offended with it. I think most folks who use it are using it as a catch-all term for anything glitzy.