Thread: Classifying Tribal

So I want to add a solo tribal category to the contest I am sponsoring in August but I need more clarification of the style. I need a better definition of tribal as well as a way to score it.

Are there any contests that have tribal categories?

Can one judging criteria be enough for all styles of tribal including props?

What makes good tribal? What makes bad tribal?

How can tribal be defined? Can it be defined?

The point of my contest is not to say that you are better than that person but to help you be a strong representation as a performer in what you do do.

If it's a solo category, then by definition it eliminates ATS/ITS, which are group improvisation formats.

So that means you're going for either vintage pre-FatChance tribal such as Hahbi Ru or Bal Anat, or you're going for Tribal Fusion, such as Rachel Brice. The number of dancers who do vintage tribal is pretty small, so that means you're looking at Tribal Fusion.

Will your judges be knowledgeable about tribal?

With respect to your specific questions:

Originally Posted by Khaleela

Are there any contests that have tribal categories?

Kimahri's Midwest Bellydance Challenge had a tribal category. I don't know about others.

Originally Posted by Khaleela

Can one judging criteria be enough for all styles of tribal including props?

I would say yes. Even ATS/ITS use props, such as balancing swords, and tribal fusion has additional flexibility.

Originally Posted by Khaleela

What makes good tribal? What makes bad tribal?

Well, certainly the skills that make a good/bad dancer apply: musical interpretation, stage presence, clean technique, etc. I would suggest that you institute a requirement that at least 60% of the movement vocabulary be based on belly dance moves, and for tribal you'd want to take that a step farther and require tribal technique. (This is quite clearly understood to be based on FatChance and/or Gypsy Caravan aesthetic.)

Originally Posted by Khaleela

How can tribal be defined? Can it be defined?

Yes, the aesthetic taught by FatChance and Gypsy Caravan is quite well defined, and quite well understood by the skilled performers of the Tribal community. Anybody who would be skilled enough in the style to win the category would know what you mean when you say the performance must be based on the ATS/ITS aesthetic. The key will be to have judges that are familiar enough with it to know who is doing it well. For example, tribal is not coy or flirtatious, but Tribal can be joyful in a strong, self-assured woman kind of way. Someone who knows the style well would know that.

What does ITS stand for, I haven't heard that before?

Originally Posted by dunyah

What does ITS stand for, I haven't heard that before?

Carolina Nericcio made a big issue out of the fact that a lot of people were claiming to do ATS but weren't using her movement vocabulary. After much debate and drama, the conclusion was that you couldn't call it ATS unless you used FatChance's movement vocabulary. There was even talk that she trademarked the ATS name, but I don't know whether that was rumor or fact. So a new name, Improvised Tribal Style (ITS) was coined to refer to group improv based on combinations that did not come from the stone tablets handed down from on high by FatChance.

Also make it clear what music is allowed for performers. Not all tribal fusion dancers use modern/alternative music but many do.

I agree with the showing of a clear base in Tribal/ATS/ITS and have judges who actually understand how this looks.

Thanks for the feedback! I have a good pool of judges to choose from so I'm not so worried there. I'm just trying to make sure that each style can be fairly assessed by the same criteria.

There is a troupe category and any ATS/ITS troupe can compete in that so there is no need to make a separate category. Not yet anyway...

With all the new styles of tribal being born everyday I guess there is no limitation on music choice right? What about movements? Costuming?

I worry that, when it's broken down into points, an urban tribal style dancer may not score as many points as a fusion tribal style in costuming because of the lack of accessories or jewelry. On the other hand they may have a bigger music selection to gain the extra points needed to even the playing field.

Shira, did you judge the tribal category in the Midwest Challenge? If so any chance I can pick your brain? I know you may not be able to say anything on the forum for obvious reasons.

I rather like TIFF..Tribal in free -fall...
sorry I rather like that for some "catorgories" of tribal belly dance.

There is a troupe category and any ATS/ITS troupe can compete in that so there is no need to make a separate category. Not yet anyway...

FWIW, and especially if a tribal group is doing straight up ATS/ITS improv, there are particular things that would define good tribal that might not be present in something not-tribal and choreographed, and vice-versa.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

If it's a solo category, then by definition it eliminates ATS/ITS, which are group improvisation formats.

So that means you're going for either vintage pre-FatChance tribal such as Hahbi Ru or Bal Anat, or you're going for Tribal Fusion, such as Rachel Brice. The number of dancers who do vintage tribal is pretty small, so that means you're looking at Tribal Fusion.

Tribal from what I've learned from Gypsy Caravan means two or more dancers. So soloist would not be Tribal and would fall under tribal fusion..

I've always thought that "solo tribal" is akin to solo synchronized swimming. That's not meant to insult the style, just the nomenclature. Of both.

Kitty

Maybe it's like being an army of one ;)?

Originally Posted by indigostars

Maybe it's like being an army of one ;)?

heh ..l;,

You're right. I kind of use the term tribal as an umbrella term for all of the different sub genres so maybe I need to rephrase myself.

Hi! I specialize in ITS and Tribal Fusion so maybe I can help.

I agree that if you ever get the chance and if you have enough troupes to make it make sense, you should probably give ATS/ITS groups their own category. If you can, get someone who knows what good group improv looks like to help judge... it would be great if you could get someone with FatChance teacher training or General Skills certification. There is a LOT you can do with group improv... and there is a lot that you can't. Judging it alongside group choreo is like comparing apples to oranges, in my opinion.

Tribal Fusion is trickier because it's such a young and porous style, and I feel like many people gravitate towards it BECAUSE it's so loosely defined. (i.e. "This is the style where we can do whatever we want, right?" I don't agree, but that's a story for another thread.) However, I do feel like there are standards and hallmarks of Tribal Fusion that you can use as guidelines when you are judging, including the following...

*Posture should be based in the ATS style- very upright with a straight spine and soft knees. Knees should have a deeper bend than in, for example, Egyptian style.
*Arms should be strong and armwork should look deliberate and well-considered, not weak/floppy/wiggly. Think of the kind of armwork you'd expect from an octopus Flamenco dancer, then dial it down just a smidge, and that's what you'll hopefully get from the best Tribal Fusion dancers.
*Isolations should be clear and crisp and not "overdone" or big and loose.
*Hip shimmies should really be isolated to the hips- the Egyptian style of straight-leg shimmy where everything shakes is really not something TF dancers do.
*The dancer projects strength through her attitude. Please note that this can be strength WITH A SMILE :D ! Don't expect all TF dancers to look angry... some people have gotten the idea that we all suck on lemons and do shots of vinegar backstage so that we can look as angry and pissy as possible while dancing. The dancer's expressions should reflect the music, just like in any other style.

Apart from that I think you should use whatever standards you use for other styles to judge TF dancers and you should be fine!

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions!

Thanks for all the input everyone! I think after careful consideration that I'm going to hold off on any tribal specific categories until next year. That way I have plenty of time to work out all the kinks and to create a strong scoring criteria.

This has been really insightful for me.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

FWIW, and especially if a tribal group is doing straight up ATS/ITS improv, there are particular things that would define good tribal that might not be present in something not-tribal and choreographed, and vice-versa.

THIS

The Belly Dance Nationals will have fusion categories that can include tribal, they might also give you some input:
Belly Dance Nationals Competition CATEGORIES AND TITLES