Thread: Flashy vs. Subtle Bellydance Styles??

I saw Saida in january on stage and went to her workshops. She was more drastic with effects and dramatic moves than I had known her from clips and dvd. It's her temper which is just strong on the extrovert side (but very disciplined and kind in personal contact), the dreamy introvert thing is not really hers. The other thing is, in Argentina they do a lot on stage more than in small venues and they love to see a lot happening, that's what I was told. Small moves escape the attention of a public that loves hair tosses, crazy drum solos (watch one recent clip of Saida's master student Shanan), Zaar performances and Turkish drops, all the big drama with loads of svarovski...
I like Saida very much with veil, because of the underlying tension of that powerful dancer, that makes the lyrical thing interesting. Saida has great technique and great knowledge about what she does, but together with her own musicians who play the music in a way that suits her style, they create something that is not really so connected with original Arab feeling and music interpretation.
But it's totally inspiring. Throw in some real powerful energy from time to time will work to a dancer's advantage for sure.

I rarely see dancers that are strong on both sides, the subtle and the fiery, which of course would be the perfect thing. Throw energy out and smuther your audience, then withdraw in an introvert way and draw the audiences energy towards you like a black hole in space, that for me would be the perfect energy exchange.

I believe that each "flashy" and "subtle" have their own place in even every piece of music, and it would be a shame to ignore either. It is not wrong to use a powerful movement during a big burst of energy, or when you feel the passion in your music.. or a subtle movement during a delicate, more intimate moment, or whilst overcome with emotion.

Everyone has such great opinions on this one that's for sure!!!

Here are some queens of Argentine exuberance:
Shanan, master student of Saida (she makes Saida look pretty tame)
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOISlF9yrnw]YouTube - Shanan- Ultimo Colette 2008[/ame]

Maiada, pregnant here, wonderful energy:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOSon5SXNGo]YouTube - Maiada y su panshi[/ame]

It occurs to me that the reason I love more subtle dance the longer I belly dance is also a matter of personality. It's in part because there are some flashy things that I simply can't do. But also, I've never ever been what you might call a flashy person, not even when I was young and dressed in a really noticeable way. Especially as I've gotten older I've tended to like style that is dramatic and sometimes quirky but ultimately simple and understated. So I guess what appeals is often simply related - duh - to what you like.

Anything is cool as long as it's genuine. That Argentine style is not for me. Still, some of their stuff I really like. They are opening new possibilities for dancers that might have the same needs of throwing out energy. My teacher is the real subtle sort:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY4V3FPXTcY]YouTube - Yaminah[/ame]

I feel bad for saying this, but that Shanan girl scared me a little...

Originally Posted by mlacombe

I feel bad for saying this, but that Shanan girl scared me a little...

Me too and it didn't seem like belly dance at all. I can't even describe what type of dance that was.....

Originally Posted by Nouria

I saw Saida in january on stage and went to her workshops. She was more
I rarely see dancers that are strong on both sides, the subtle and the fiery, which of course would be the perfect thing. Throw energy out and smuther your audience, then withdraw in an introvert way and draw the audiences energy towards you like a black hole in space, that for me would be the perfect energy exchange.

What an awesome visualisation Nouria :-)

Mlacombe, yes that Shanah clip is extreme. She is very energetic and fast and young also. When you're 20 maybe you want to do maximum. I thought like you: it's a totally different dance! You also hear people from the audience cheering, they love that crazy thing. I guess a calm, subtle dancer might also disappoint them. There's another flashy dancer I like, Maria Shashkova from Russia and she also has those moments of frenzy you start to wonder what that's about.
Nanda, haha, I was into flashy metaphors after those flashy clips.
But I thought about energy exchange as the perfect way of describing the interaction with the audience and it's best when it goes both ways.

Originally Posted by Aradia

I think a dancer should have both elements in her dance so she can shift to what the music is doing.

Bingo.

that real high energy and big movements that Shanan was doing reminds me of the Turkish dancers from back in the 60's and 70's, they were real power houses when it came to exuding energy, but she is a bit over the top!!

I agree that Shanan seems to go a bit overboard, maybe stage adrenaline kicked in too much plus she's young.

I agree that I just don't recognize bellydance when watching her. That drum solo is too much of everything, spins, hair tosses all the time... But some sharp accents can really be so much fun. Only if it's one after another and faster than your eye can follow, there's no time to build the suspense. Still, I feel like I'm a little infected by that hot crazy style...

There is a famous drum solo by Saida. I like it much better and I love the rock concert atmosphere of the clip:
(I hope it's ok if I post so many clips, I always do)
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJmBV47hm9w]YouTube - BELLYDANCER SAIDA -DERBAKE[/ame]

Originally Posted by Aradia

I think a dancer should have both elements in her dance so she can shift to what the music is doing.

Absolutely! Yin and Yang. It makes it more dynamic. I love to move between subtle hand movements and undulations and BIG dramatic movements like spins and whipping my skirt around, big backbends. The performance I am currently working on, starts with an energetic intro, then dissolves into subtle ooey gooeyness and then the energy builds and intensifies again into firey skirt swooshing fun. Repeat.

Saida is probably my favorite dancer. I like flash. :-) I'm a flashy dancer. Although I agree that Shanan clip was extreme. Too much flash!

Nouria, I agree with you completely-the energy exchange should go both ways, out and in. I aspire to do that.

Being a visual artist in my other life, I relate things to artworks. A major concept is the balance between positive and negative space-positive being the active (sometimes more obvious) element and the negative space being the subtle, not quite so obvious part of a painting. Both are important and too much of one or the other can seem out of balance. That's not to say that there should be an exact equal amount-that's what is so wonderful about art (and dancing)-sometimes it's the tiny amount of flashy in with the subtle or vice versa that makes it special.

I like both styles. My instructor is high energy but not crazy and I wish I could go out and put that much into my dance but if I did, I could go much past my first song. I LOVE watching more Egyptian style dancers that have smaller moves and seem a little more internal. I aspire to be able to dance that way and not be boring. I like them both in their own ways.
I would say I move in a medium tempo. I am just to scared to look too frenzied or ho-hum to commit to far in either direction.

A related issue is how much "stuff" a dancer puts in. Lots of different moves, showing I can do this and this and this and this!!!! I recently saw a well respected international dancer do this and frankly I was bored rigid. I didn't want to see how great her technique was - I wanted to see her interpret the music - become one with it and pull me in. Instead I was very conscious of ticking off some very difficult moves - I was more aware of her technique than her dance and it left me cold.

At the other end of the spectrum, in Nour's Eyes, Fifi Abdou's prison scene is almost exclusive a series of hip figure eights and almost moved me to tears.

Wow. I'd call myself a flashy dancer, but my back hurt watching Shanan's chest pops...

I like so many different dancers, I love the flashier ones like Aziza and Saida while I love the subtlety of Orit Maftsir, Souhier and Fifi , or rather their softness and relaxed manner while dancing. Fifi for instance makes extremely intricate movements look so easy because she looks relaxed and happy and she doesn't appear to be straining or putting huge effort into what she is doing with her body, even though it is definetly involving effort.
The flashier dancers can make the dance look effortless but they don't look relaxed in the same way. However, one dancer I cannot understand the appeal of is Sadie even though she can do amazing things with her body it looks so harsh and jagged and so anti-belly dance. Thats just my opinion though...
So much that can be said about this!