Thread: no-zill rhythms?

I recently read in a workshop description that students will learn "which rhythms to use for zills and which not".
Hmmmmm....
So are there rhythms were it's "forbidden" to play zills to???

I mean, I obviously wouldn't kill any slow, sesuous piece of music with my zilling. But I'd basically zill to whatever lively rhythm that comes my way.

Any insights?

MEISSOUN

If it was about following rhythm, I could probably play waheda with my zills. ..l;, ..g.: I can manage one "ding" without getting mixed up.

I guess I wouldn't make a choice to zill with malfouf on an entrance, for example but that's less about rhythm and more about purpose of that moment/piece in of the music - and for a beginner/intermediate workshop, information that might seem "d'oh" to advanced dancers might be not so well-understood by newer dancers?

Maybe it should have just been worded - "when to play zills and when not to" as it seems less of a rhythm-based question and more about "appropriateness" to the overall music or spirit of the moment.

Perhaps it's referring to certain zill playing that doesn't go with arabic music.
I'm very guilty of this, and my teacher corrects me constantly. She says that I play them too elaborately and I drown out the music, not with loudness but just by doing too much with the zills when I should be playing simpler patterns.
She's always telling me that more isn't necesarily better, and to not do so much with them and that arabic dancers tend to keep their zill playing simple.

Regards
Priscilla

"Which rhythms to use for zills" I read to mean "which rhythms to play on your zills". Refering to the zill rhythm, not the rhythm of the music. In which case it should read "which zill rhythms to use".

Ok, generally anything that has a percussive element to a song.
Dont play in a Taxim of course.
Dont play too loud, you want to accompany, not distract.

I'm with you, Meissoun. Sometimes they just don't go...but that's kind of a "duh" thing really.

If it's some long violin or quanoon solo and you're goofy enough to be galloping away on your zills, well, that's just silly! Time for a revocation of the belly dancer card.

BELLY DANCE VIOLATION!

Fine: 1 Bella

yep, I also want play to livley rhythms only and pause at times but if I remember right Morocco mentioned that you can play to anything at all, notice how she never seems to stop playing just slows down to simple rhythms. when I watched her perform at Wamed those zills did not stop once.

Morocco can do things that mere mortals (like me) cannot.

yes, that is true.

One of my friends told me to listen to music for when there are zills in the music, and I notice whenever there are, typically they are playing R-L-R L-R-L over and over, or trilling them. Pretty simple as someone here stated. I actually have a harder time going steadily with a r-l-r l-r-l then I do with a more complicated rhythm. If I'm not concentrating on it to do otherwise, I play along with the melody - isn't that terrible?

Me too. That's why I tend to overdo it.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

I actually have a harder time going steadily with a r-l-r l-r-l then I do with a more complicated rhythm.

When I was at Pennsic recently, I heard a lot of very loud and gunfire-style zilling that drained out everything else, and also zilling over takseems, which drove me bananas. Based on that, I have two suggestions for "what not to use": First, I prefer if dancers don't play full-force, like they would as a soloist, when they are in social/group/open floor dance situations, especially if they have very carrying zills. Second, during a musician's takseem, I think zills should be quiet (or mutedly play along to the band's background riff if applicable).

Maybe it simply comes down to the fact that zills are a percussion instrument, and a dancer playing zills has the same responsibilities as a member of the band: not every drummer can let out his inner Hossam Ramzy when playing in an ensemble, either ;-) IMHO, the best zill playing complements the music, and makes me want to hear more, not less.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

One of my friends told me to listen to music for when there are zills in the music, and I notice whenever there are, typically they are playing R-L-R L-R-L over and over, or trilling them. Pretty simple as someone here stated. I actually have a harder time going steadily with a r-l-r l-r-l then I do with a more complicated rhythm. If I'm not concentrating on it to do otherwise, I play along with the melody - isn't that terrible?

I have the same issue, having an easier time with complicated zill patterns than I do with r-l-r r-l-r, etc. My tendency is to zill along with the drum rhythm, more so than the melody. I don't worry about if that's not what Egyptian dancers do... most of them don't play zills at all anymore.

Also, if the song is reasonably complex, I hate when dancers zill simple 3's straight through the song, regardless of the rhythm and mood changes in the music.

Originally Posted by steffib

When I was at Pennsic recently, I heard a lot of very loud and gunfire-style zilling that drained out everything else, and also zilling over takseems, which drove me bananas. Based on that, I have two suggestions for "what not to use": First, I prefer if dancers don't play full-force, like they would as a soloist, when they are in social/group/open floor dance situations, especially if they have very carrying zills. Second, during a musician's takseem, I think zills should be quiet (or mutedly play along to the band's background riff if applicable).

Maybe it simply comes down to the fact that zills are a percussion instrument, and a dancer playing zills has the same responsibilities as a member of the band: not every drummer can let out his inner Hossam Ramzy when playing in an ensemble, either ;-) IMHO, the best zill playing complements the music, and makes me want to hear more, not less.

Steffib you've hit the nail on the head!!! They ARE a percussion instrument and if you're playing them, you are a member of the band. That means you play *with* the band as a member, not as a soloist drowning out the sounds of the rest of the instruments. It also means that you play *with* the music, not disregarding it. You can play with the other percussionists most of the time or all of the time, but feel free to play along with the melody too. As for very quiet music, taksims, slow songs, it's really best to not play at all or, as Steffi says, play softly with the band's background riff.

I've played with Arab musicians at many Arab weddings, parties, other gigs and this is exactly what they say about how dancers should play zills. I've taught playing zills musically with the rhythms at Ahlan Wa Sahlan for the last 2 years and Raqia agrees with what I just said and would like to see more dancers learn to play musically.

Not sure about rhythms. But I wouldn't want to see a dancer playing zills doing a Zar dance.