Thread: The Hip Swerve (Hossam Ramzy) ???

We had a thread on the old Bhuz about this, but I don't think we ever came to a consensus.

Hossam Ramzy is famous for talking about "The Hip Swerve" as being the one true belly dance step or whatever.

Could someone who has studied with him (or who owns the issue of Habibi where he expounded upon this at length) PLEASE explain what he is talking about?

I've heard this described as so many different steps, but I want to know (from someone who heard it from HIM or Serena) what Hossam specifically is referring to, please.

Anybody???

Hey, maybe Razia knows. I have always wondered about this, too. Could it be figure eights? Could it be what some people call the jewel, which I'm still not clear on, either? What is it?

I know with the Hip Swerve he's talking about something OTHER than what he calls the "Egyptian Walk" (which he says, 'For you Yanks, that's the Shimmy Walk') -- because he uses both phrases when talking about Baladi music.



edited --- GOT IT!!!!!


It's the step Serena does first on the Bey Olouly choreo on Visual Melodies!!!

Basically it's the hip drop sit kick thing, but the drop is more angular, dropping back and down and into the body. (Almost like a counter clockwise pivot in Jamila terminology.)


Why the heck didn't I just look at the notes I transcribed from VM before I started this thread? Sorry.

So basically the twisty folksy hip drop?

That's what I always *thought* he meant, just from the context in his baladi artlcle. But since I had nothing from the horse's mouth, I wasn't going to confuzzle the thread with my baseless theories!

Lauren, you told me a couple of years ago that you thought this step was what he was talking about. For some reason I had it in my head that it was more like a horizontal figure 8 with a strong pull to center, like Fifi does. ???

It wasn't that I didn't believe you!

So yes, a twisty folksy hip drop is the perfect explanation :) Thanks!

I think 'swerve' is a hella confusing name for it, if that makes you feel any better.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I think 'swerve' is a hella confusing name for it, if that makes you feel any better.

Yeah, "swerve" sounds like what aziyade said.

But English is his second language, so I'll cut him some slack!..l;,

Originally Posted by Lauren_

So basically the twisty folksy hip drop?

That's what I always *thought* he meant, just from the context in his baladi artlcle. But since I had nothing from the horse's mouth, I wasn't going to confuzzle the thread with my baseless theories!

Okay, What is the twisty golksy hip drop? (you KNEW I was gonna ask)

Just what it sounds like -- a hip drop done in a very relaxed way, so the hip is allowed to twist forward/back as it goes up and down. Used mostly in folkloric styles, or with heavy folkloric music, or anytime you want a big, loose movement to go with the music (as opposed to a tight, percussive, straight-down hip drop).

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Just what it sounds like -- a hip drop done in a very relaxed way, so the hip is allowed to twist forward/back as it goes up and down. Used mostly in folkloric styles, or with heavy folkloric music, or anytime you want a big, loose movement to go with the music (as opposed to a tight, percussive, straight-down hip drop).

So this isn't the jewel with some kind of variation? Well then, I'm confused!

Can someone post a clip of what the movement is like or is exactly?


BDF/KJ

Originally Posted by Bellydancefanatic

So this isn't the jewel with some kind of variation? Well then, I'm confused!

Can someone post a clip of what the movement is like or is exactly?


BDF/KJ

I was led to believe this movement was fundamentally a Tunisian move. It's used a lot in Tunisian dance, which I've studied, so that's my slant on it. It's used a lot in travelling, as seen on this clip. I'm not sure about HR's version or even if its the same movement. What's shown below is more of a twist,, but the emphasis is still on one hip.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeDIhxxAz0g"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeDIhxxAz0g[/ame]

Different move.

Think of a hip drop. Now instead of lifting the hip directly at the side, pivot the hip forward a little bit.

In Salimpour terminology, this step was counter-clockwise pivot.

You can also think about squashing a bug (or putting out a cigarette) with the ball of the foot. You twist a little, but the twist is minimal.


Americans usually learn "The Jewel" as a step defined by Shareen el Safy (and later Zahra Zuhair) which consists of a horizontal hip half circle in front (or half of a front-to-back horizontal figure 8) and when the hip is back, it twists a bit, (I do it with a front-back twist) and then comes back to neutral. The twist is subtle -- just enough to flip your fringe. Not big like Tunisian twists.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

So basically the twisty folksy hip drop?

That's what I always *thought* he meant, just from the context in his baladi artlcle. But since I had nothing from the horse's mouth, I wasn't going to confuzzle the thread with my baseless theories!

I think you are right from what I recall from a couple workshops I have taken with HR several years ago. I may remember wrong, but he had Serena do the "one true move" and I recall she did a relaxed hipdrop, sometimes what you describe and sometimes smaller. He claims it is the move he always sees Egyptian women do when they dance. I wouldn't read to much into the "one true" without further clarification from HR as Serena certainly does other moves and he wasn't implying it was the only correct move in context of what he was saying. I am not sure why he would call it a swerve, and don't even recall him labeling or naming the move. I hope that makes sense. Maybe someone else has a fresher memory on the subject.

My teacher loves Hossam and goes to all his things she can. If Hosssam had a name for anything that is the name she would use. What we do as a hip swerve is a hip twist travelling move. Forgot to ask her if that was a Hossam name but will ask next week.

I'm not an expert on Hossam's terminology, but I thought it just meant hip drops. The loose, swingy folksy ones rather than the very percussive, straight-down-from-the-ribcage ones.

Like what Aziza starts out with here:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4to0z3U3TI]YouTube - Bellydancer Derbake Aziza[/ame]

This is the one move that every little girl and old man in the Middle East seems to have been born knowing...

Looks to me like a hip twist.

Me too. It looks to me like a hip-twist hip-kick, rather than a hip-drop hip-kick. Which is what I've always called these two moves in order to distinguish the one from the other.

Edited to Add: I DO like the term hip swerve though. ..g.:..g.:

Regards
Priscilla

Originally Posted by Lauren_

So basically the twisty folksy hip drop?

I love that descriptive term. I don't do well with jargon, but that is a really good description. "oh! the twisty folksy hip drop!"

Originally Posted by Lauren_

So basically the twisty folksy hip drop?

That's what I always *thought* he meant, just from the context in his baladi artlcle. But since I had nothing from the horse's mouth, I wasn't going to confuzzle the thread with my baseless theories!

Yep, I had workshops with them, and Hossam while Serena was showing this hip twist kick thing (sorry for my english cant describe more) explained it as the one movement that all egyptian's know.

kissessssssss

When this subject comes up, it always reminds me of this line from an article about dance in Afghanistan:

An eight-year-old girl, however, started doing a move common to belly dancers everywhere: She slanted back, dropped her hip and kicked with every other drop.

Dancing in Aphganistan by Deanna for the Gilded Serpent

I always thought it was the Jewel! Now i'm just confused

Most of the dancers I know (in the US) learned "The Jewel" as a step defined by Shareen el Safy (and later Zahra Zuhair) which consists of a horizontal hip half circle in front (or half of a front-to-back horizontal figure 8) and when the hip is back, it twists a bit, (I do it with a front-back twist) and then comes back to neutral.

However on Ranya's new Baladi dvd, she calls a Jewel variation an upward vertical hip figure 8 with a little shiver, or small drops.

I guess it depends on where you live. ??

My understanding is that the term "jewel" is short for "jewel of the Nile" and that's what Shareen called it when she *finally* worked out how to do That Thing that all the Egyptian dancers seemed to do and that seemed so quintessentially Egyptian, that was eluding her. Like all BD steps it doesn't have an official name, but it was Shareen who named half circle/half backward horizontal fig 8, fwd back fwd on the weighted hip the "jewel". I am sure there are zillions of steps that someone else has called "the jewel".

To me a jewel is always a sort of roundy shift of weight with lots of delicious tension, followed by an accented release of some kind.

Amera Eid does a really yummy variation which is like half a diagonal vertical 8 (a movement we call a "v8" which I also learned years ago as "beledi push") and then the fwd back.

edited --- GOT IT!!!!!


It's the step Serena does first on the Bey Olouly choreo on Visual Melodies!!!

Basically it's the hip drop sit kick thing, but the drop is more angular, dropping back and down and into the body. (Almost like a counter clockwise pivot in Jamila terminology.)


Why the heck didn't I just look at the notes I transcribed from VM before I started this thread? Sorry.[/B]

A few years ago, my teacher started calling that the "butt drop", to distinguish it from the purely vertical move. We were using "hip drop" to refer to both up until then, and got massively confused. So now we say "butt drop" for the twisty drop and "hip drop" for the vertical drop.

We use "hip twist" to refer to a purely horizontal twisting movement; the butt drop is lifted when it twists front and dropped when it twists back.

Originally Posted by jmdruadh

A few years ago, my teacher started calling that the "butt drop", to distinguish it from the purely vertical move.

This makes perfect sense to me!

Originally Posted by aziyade

Most of the dancers I know (in the US) learned "The Jewel" as a step defined by Shareen el Safy (and later Zahra Zuhair) which consists of a horizontal hip half circle in front (or half of a front-to-back horizontal figure 8) and when the hip is back, it twists a bit, (I do it with a front-back twist) and then comes back to neutral.


I guess it depends on where you live. ??

my teacher calls it something else.

Funny thing is I was re-watching some dvds last night that I hadn't seen for ages. It was disc 3 of the Jillina instructionals where she does a jewel.

right hip twists to front & down. You pull abdominally back & release to neutral and switch hips. I was watching thinking this is 'like' the move we do which is more in line with what you are describing aziyade. It got me thinking - always dangerous.w.: Is the 1st 'jewel' I described a separate move OR has it developed in the 'jewel' as a different move because foreign dancers were watching Egyptian dancers and guestimated how the move was performed? Phew.

Originally Posted by straightleftknee

Is the 1st 'jewel' I described a separate move OR has it developed in the 'jewel' as a different move because foreign dancers were watching Egyptian dancers and guestimated how the move was performed? Phew.

Shareen el Safy, on one of her early technique videos, taught it one way, and in her more recent videos teaches it a slightly different way, and attributes it to different dancers. I think it "evolves" on each dancer differently. Or maybe she "edited" how to teach the movement based on a different understanding of it through time? Also, if you watch a YOUNG Mona Said do it, it looks different from the same movement on the OLDER Mona Said, too. I'm sure the change in body shape and experience give the move a different look.

That's what I love love love about this dance!! The slightest differences in posture, weight placement, body shape, etc can make one movement look so different!

Originally Posted by aziyade

Shareen el Safy, on one of her early technique videos, taught it one way, and in her more recent videos teaches it a slightly different way, and attributes it to different dancers. I think it "evolves" on each dancer differently. Or maybe she "edited" how to teach the movement based on a different understanding of it through time? Also, if you watch a YOUNG Mona Said do it, it looks different from the same movement on the OLDER Mona Said, too. I'm sure the change in body shape and experience give the move a different look.

That's what I love love love about this dance!! The slightest differences in posture, weight placement, body shape, etc can make one movement look so different!

I think somewhere I have written out about a half dozen different (slightly ,r:;) variations for the jewel: one from Shareen, one from Jilliana, from from Hadia, one from Keti, one from Sahra . . . . and I think one that is the only one I see a strong difference in that I picked up somewhere on youtube that uses a crescent (1/2 hip circle) from side to side with the release. . . . Ah yes, variety truly is the spice of life!..l;,


the hip swerve

Doesn't Aradia, on her Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish dvd teach the verticle drop kick as Egyptian and the "butt" drop as Lebanese (or am I mis-reading the descriptions -- again!!).

Whatever the "hip swerve" is, Hossam refers to it as something like "the one move all baladi women know".

To me this suggests that it is not a jewel move, or horizontal figure 8's, or a traveling hip twist, but something more fundamental to the dance, like the big baladi style hip drop.

Originally Posted by kat

I think somewhere I have written out about a half dozen different (slightly ,r:;) variations for the jewel: one from Shareen, one from Jilliana, from from Hadia, one from Keti, one from Sahra . . . . and I think one that is the only one I see a strong difference in that I picked up somewhere on youtube that uses a crescent (1/2 hip circle) from side to side with the release. . . . Ah yes, variety truly is the spice of life!..l;,


the hip swerve

Doesn't Aradia, on her Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish dvd teach the verticle drop kick as Egyptian and the "butt" drop as Lebanese (or am I mis-reading the descriptions -- again!!).

Yeah, the Lebanese tend to do more of a hip twist than a vertical drop, not that they won't use it for accent and such, but I've mainly seen them drop their butt more. The good thing is that we have so much variety to pull from, probably because the dance is 60% passion, 40% technique!! Which is why someone may say Egyptian dancers don't do XYZ, and then Mona el Said or Dina will bust out with XYZ!!!