Thread: One holed zills - who knows how to play them?

back in the day, thats all we had! so, yes! played them a good 10 years before a dancers zill was made.

about zilldjians, it is like cococola, only 2 people in that family know the formula at a time.

One of my students brought a pair of one hole ziljins to class. The sound is very different than Egyptian ones - the resonance carries on for a long time after they are struck. The Egyptian ones don't ring the same way. They are more like metal castanets. When played a certain way they sound like hollow wood.

I ordered the first shipment of one style of professional Egyptians. It should be here in 2-3 weeks, along with other samples. I wanted to try things out before Artemis finishes writing her instructional booklet and laying down her tracks.

But I have come to the conclusion that I will have to do a second CD just for Egyptian style. I have been working on 2 different rhythm drills and each takes 15 minutes (broken into 3 sets of 5 min but that run together). My poor students. They truely are the nicest guinea pigs I know. There is more than enough material to fill a 60 min Egyptian CD. My reasoning for such long drills is that the hands and the metal take time to warm up. Besides, the longer you play, the more relaxed the hands get and the easier the sounds are to find.

I just hope customs doesn't give me a hard time.

Please let us know as soon as they are available for purchase (the CD and the zills) I don't want to miss out on this!

Regards
Priscilla

Originally Posted by Serpentine

But I have come to the conclusion that I will have to do a second CD just for Egyptian style.

And then you can make a third one teaching the 3-cymbal technique that is sometimes used with Moroccan schikhatt....

Originally Posted by *Shira*

And then you can make a third one teaching the 3-cymbal technique that is sometimes used with Moroccan schikhatt....

Nope. Gotta stick to what I know. I've never even SEEN that done, and I worked in Morocco for a while. Any YouTube examples? This sounds fascinating.

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Nope. Gotta stick to what I know. I've never even SEEN that done, and I worked in Morocco for a while. Any YouTube examples? This sounds fascinating.

I learned it from the dancer Morocco. She teaches it as part of her schikhatt workshop.

Don't know whether there are any youtube examples - I spend as little time as possible on youtube because I just don't have the patience for it!

Originally Posted by aziyade

I love my El Coyotes too, but lately I've been playing Afghanis with loose elastic, and I like the feel/sound of those.

I don't know the difference in playing styles between single hole and slotted cymbals, so I'd be very interested in learning this. Is it because of the hole (looseness or tightness in play style), or because single-holed cymbals usually have different tones?

Karim Nagi told us Egyptian cymbals had many different sounds, and weren't made to precision standards the way Saroyan makes his. He said he just sorts through the bins until he finds 4 that he likes. I would like to know more about how Egyptians prefer the cymbals to sound.

Karim is right about shopping for good cymbals in Egypt. I have several sets and for each one, I had to sort through the bins until I found the sets of 4 that I liked.

Differences in playing styles? Single holed cymbals, because of their relative instability, allow you to get many different sounds out of them depending on how you hold them (tight/loose, number of fingers touching them), how you strike them together(flat/edges/bounce,clack, and more). Double holed/slotted cymbals are more stable and for many people easier to play, but it is much more difficult to get a wide variety of sounds out of them.

I've heard the Zildjians in person and man, their sound carries. Beautiful and clear but very distracting in class, especially for those of us sensitive to higher pitched zills. OTOH I learned to play zills on single-holed style heavy brass cymbals--if you're used to them you really can get a nice variety of sounds/volumes from them. They're worth a try!

If you are hard pressed to find one holed zills, there's Sabian, a Canadian cymbal company that makes them out of bronze, in choice of light or heavy. Sabian zills

Available online and at Long & McQuade.

Originally Posted by zamora

about zilldjians, it is like cococola, only 2 people in that family know the formula at a time.

Artemis just lent me a special pair of one-holed zills that Tayyar had made for him special order in Turkey. To my surprise they looked EXACTLY like the Ziljan one-holes and sounded the same as well. She also lent me a pair of the Coyotes so I could play with them too. They were very resonant.

Given the Turkish zills I just saw, I would guess the Saroyans, Ziljans and Turquoise models were based on original Turkish varieties, but not on Egyptian ones. I haven't found anything similar to them yet - but I'm looking. This detective work is fun.

The zills have arrived from Egypt! ..g.:

They sent the heavy castanet kind. I am thrilled. Now to get the CDs done...
They also sent samples for three other kinds. So many choices. I can't wait to try them.

Originally Posted by Serpentine

The zills have arrived from Egypt! ..g.:

They sent the heavy castanet kind. I am thrilled. Now to get the CDs done...
They also sent samples for three other kinds. So many choices. I can't wait to try them.

Are you going to be selling them? (runs off to check serpentine website...)

Originally Posted by Serpentine

The zills have arrived from Egypt! ..g.:

They sent the heavy castanet kind. I am thrilled. Now to get the CDs done...
They also sent samples for three other kinds. So many choices. I can't wait to try them.

*putting blank check in bag to bring to class*.w.:

In case you were curious as to what they looked like ...
http://www.serpentine.org/zills.html

Just a little update from a convert ;-) Yesterday, I went to Yasmin's workshop on her talking sagat. It was fabulous, I was in total awe - I highly, highly recommend taking that workshop to everybody who has the chance. Even if one decides not to learn talking sagat (it is bloody hard!!), the history lecture alone is worth attending.

The bottom-line is - these are very, very different from the zills we are used to. First, the cymbals are made different (they are cast from a special metal alloy), and have a different shape than e.g. Saroyans or Zildjians: wide rim, thick, high rippled dome, with heavy and low, almost wooden sound and very minimal reverb - more like a drum in sound quality than like a bell or a drumkit cymbal. Second, and more importantly, they are played with a different technique that allows to generate a variety pitches, much more than with conventional zills. She calls that clamshell technique. It involves resting the thumb cymbal in the crease of the hand and manipulating where it rests to generate different striking surfaces.

This technique comes with a different hand and arm position than conventional zill playing, and in addition, these things are very heavy, so it has an impact on how one can move the arms with them, which is of course directly related to one's overall movement quality. While that is certainly not for everybody to apply actively (plus, it requires a serious practice commitment even if one can play zills), it takes playing finger cymbals to a new level.

Uh,oh, I can see another item added to my list of "things to do in Egypt" . . . I was going to take sagat lessons during my April 2008 trip but I ran out of time. Now that I have been practising like a maniac for an upcoming performance (and thoughts of teaching a workshop myself popped into my head, imagine that) . . . maybe it is now time to re-visit this thought.

Yasmin, sorry I am not in the DC area because I would have loved to attend that workshop!!!

Originally Posted by steffib

Just a little update from a convert ;-) Yesterday, I went to Yasmin's workshop on her talking sagat. ... Even if one decides not to learn talking sagat (it is bloody hard!!), the history lecture alone is worth attending.

It was great to put faces to people I have seen on here for years. Thank you for coming all that way. I had fun sharing my new obsession.

Alas, I realized I had way too much material to teach in 2 hours. I will make a movie about the history. That will be easier. I will post a little on YouTube when it's done, like the others already up there.

Thank you for being wonderful guinea pigs and asking so many questions. They help me organize all the research I've done into practical answers. We will continue with more advanced workshops as soon as you get the technique down...g.:

Originally Posted by Serpentine

In preparation for the instructional Zill CD Artemis and I are doing, I was curious if any of you zill enthusiasts know or like playing the authentic Egyptian one holed zills?

After studying them in Egypt I have come to love the variety of sounds they produce and was wondering if anyone else has come to love them as I do...

I've just read the first post, none of the others yet, but I am a HUGE fan of one-holed zills! I'm still looking for that perfect pair.

I have Zildjians, but they are too heavy and the tone splits my head. I prefer a lighter tone.

Yasmin- is Sagat Speak available yet? I have been longing to order both the almee set & Sagat Speak since April or so, but every time I check the website, it says they are 'coming soon.'

Any updates?
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Lara L

Yasmin- is Sagat Speak available yet? I have been longing to order both the almee set & Sagat Speak since April or so, but every time I check the website, it says they are 'coming soon.' Any updates?

I have been immersed in finishing Artemis' Zill Speak first, since it is more basic and will cover zill playing from A to Z (and I promised her ...). Sagat Speak is meant to be the second in the series. As Steffib mentioned above, they are harder to play and an acquired taste. I have set a release date for Arty's CD in September and hopefully Sagat Speak for November. So far, I am on track for Arty's. As usual, it's the booklets that slow things down. But THIS time I'm not releasing anything until the booklets that go with them are ready. No more cards...

Okay... maybe I can start dropping hints for Christmas...

Thanks for the update!

wow..the zar ones are such an unusual sound

Originally Posted by steffib

The bottom-line is - these are very, very different from the zills we are used to. First, the cymbals are made different (they are cast from a special metal alloy), and have a different shape than e.g. Saroyans or Zildjians: wide rim, thick, high rippled dome, with heavy and low, almost wooden sound and very minimal reverb - more like a drum in sound quality than like a bell or a drumkit cymbal. Second, and more importantly, they are played with a different technique that allows to generate a variety pitches, much more than with conventional zills. She calls that clamshell technique. It involves resting the thumb cymbal in the crease of the hand and manipulating where it rests to generate different striking surfaces.

Wow! And here I'm trying to come up with a way to convert single-slotted pair to a double-slotted one. Sophie’s Dancelog » Getting the most out of single-slotted zills For me it was all about stability and snug fit, so that I can easily position the thumb cymbal in between the thumb and the index finger. Going to dig my first single-slotted pair that looks just like Almee sagat at Yasmin's page and play around with them!

Originally Posted by steffib

Just a little update from a convert ;-) Yesterday, I went to Yasmin's workshop on her talking sagat. It was fabulous, I was in total awe - I highly, highly recommend taking that workshop to everybody who has the chance. Even if one decides not to learn talking sagat (it is bloody hard!!), the history lecture alone is worth attending.

The bottom-line is - these are very, very different from the zills we are used to. First, the cymbals are made different (they are cast from a special metal alloy), and have a different shape than e.g. Saroyans or Zildjians: wide rim, thick, high rippled dome, with heavy and low, almost wooden sound and very minimal reverb - more like a drum in sound quality than like a bell or a drumkit cymbal. Second, and more importantly, they are played with a different technique that allows to generate a variety pitches, much more than with conventional zills. She calls that clamshell technique. It involves resting the thumb cymbal in the crease of the hand and manipulating where it rests to generate different striking surfaces.

This technique comes with a different hand and arm position than conventional zill playing, and in addition, these things are very heavy, so it has an impact on how one can move the arms with them, which is of course directly related to one's overall movement quality. While that is certainly not for everybody to apply actively (plus, it requires a serious practice commitment even if one can play zills), it takes playing finger cymbals to a new level.

I have to agree: it was a fabulous workshop, and the clamshell method is SO COOL.

I also love the sound of the clapper zils. I just wish I could find something with a similarly clackey sound in a 2-slot variety for general vintage orientale playing... I'll have to try sophie's bra slider adaptation.

i love the sound of the zarr zills /// yummm

I have just finished Zill Speak and have sent it off to the replicators. I have set the release date for the 21st of September. Artemis will have them for her trip to Japan. I already have the booklets, so as promised, there will be no cards to send in.

As of Monday I will be working towards my 15th of November deadline for Sagat Speak. I have already come across some fascinating history of Egyptian hand-held percussive instruments that date far before the pyramids - along with sex in the dance and where we got our percussive belts from. They are WAY older than you think!..g.: