Thread: One holed zills - who knows how to play them?

In preparation for the instructional Zill CD Artemis and I are doing, I was curious if any of you zill enthusiasts know or like playing the authentic Egyptian one holed zills?

After studying them in Egypt I have come to love the variety of sounds they produce and was wondering if anyone else has come to love them as I do...

Hm, I am aware of what Carla of Turku teaches on her CD-Rom. She argues against zills "strapped to one's fingers", and suggests playing more loosely, with 1-hole zills. Her focus is on Turkish/Asia Minor music, though.

I love my 1-holed El Coyotes, which have the most beautiful sound of all zills ever (even in my hands), and I would be infinitely excited if the CD covered techniques specifically for that type of zills.

Can't wait for the CD!!!!

My favorites are a single hole vintage set. They're stamped "OZEL TURKBAS - MADE IN TURKEY" and I've not seen another set like them. I have mono hearing, no hearing at all in one ear, and the sustained after-ring of the double slotted zills interferes with my being able to hear everything within the music so it drives me crazy. I've tried and abandoned several good quality sets like Saroyan Pros, etc, I just can't stand them. I've tried out, but don't own, the heavy single hole Zildjian's and I'd love to have a set some day. For when I do need something louder I have Saroyan Grecians which are quite a bit larger in diameter than my "Ozels" and double slotted but very low pitch. So I use both kinds. It's never occurred to me though that there would be a difference in technique. The single holers do wobble around more but if you practice with them you just get used to it. Of course this is all from my own weird perspective as a mono-hearing person. I do know that dancers or musicians with a lot a familiarity with zills can tell the difference. I've had people say things like: "Those were single hole zills you were playing weren't they? I knew it! I love the way they sound."
Rosette

It sounds like playing one-holed zils would be hard. Is that the trick to it? The only experience I have with one-holed zils are the student zils found in the "instant" belly dancer kits and I can't even balance those to even get a sound out of them.

I have a pair of one holed zills I use in class because they can be nice and loud. They're not necessarily easy to use with a lot of arm movements when dancing, but I like them and don't see much difference as far as technique, although you do hear a difference in sound.

I've had both kinds, and like the single hole ones.

Thank you all for answering. There definately is a different technique to holding and playing Egyptian zills. The metal is much thicker and the sound is adapted less for ringing loudly but for a hollow almost wooden sound similar to castanets. Zils were after all the precursors of Spanish hand-held percussive instruments.

I have looked on line but have not found good professional Egyptian zills for sale here. I was thinking of importing them from my supplier in Egypt, to sell in conjunction with the album. The ones I did find here have an overpowering ring to them, which the Egyptians don't like at all. They think American zills are way too loud and reverberate too much. They get theirs to "talk" by making different clicking and clacking sounds, in addition to the ring. Even the Description d'Egypte article on how the ghawazee played them talks about the technique and the clicking sounds. I thought I would include that in the booklet Artemis and I will be writing for it.

Do you think there are enough people who love to play zills that would appreciate something like that being available?

I've played both. With live bands I've always preferred my one hole Zildjians. They are a little more difficult to play as they aren't as secure on your fingers and I have to change the elastic more frequently.

Is it correct to assume that the CD may be more of a niche product, for dancers who want to learn a bit more? Things like different sounds and strokes, and possibly how to modulate volume? (My wishlist.) If so, then I would assume that adding coverage for different types of zills will be a good addition, esp. given that this information is pretty much impossible to find.

And, as mentioned, the problem may be: with the wide availability and popularity of Turquoise and Saroyan, not too many people may own or know of a good supplier for anything else.

I was going to ask if anyone might know of a good supplier for Zildjians? I use Saroyan's now but I'm not totally inlove with the sound and I heard Zildjians were really good. I'm interested in trying the one-holed zils as well since I like a challenge.

Have dancers always used the one-holed zils and then the two-holed ones came along?

Zildjians you can order on the internet for good prices. Through Google I found good prices at Drumworld, who happen to be a real store about 20 minutes from our house (alas, they don't stock IRL, much to my disappointment).

My Zildjians have 2 slots.

I have to admit that I have no experience with *nice* one holed zills. I only have seen and heard the cheapie ones.

PLEASE DO THIS PROJECT!
PLEASE offer the cymbals as part of the package... is it possible to have a "training size" made in addition to the professional size?
I love one-hole finger cymbals! I own several sets - Suleiman's as mentioned above, some from India, some from Morocco - but none from Egypt.
I teach my students with 2-hole just because it is easier but I'd love to see your method of teaching "Egyptian Style".
Excited to hear more!
B

I'd love to try the single hole Egyptians. About Zildjian, I believe they make both single hole an 2 slot zills; I'm sure I've seen both.
R

Originally Posted by Rosette

I'd love to try the single hole Egyptians. About Zildjian, I believe they make both single hole an 2 slot zills; I'm sure I've seen both.
R

The do - Zildjian sells 2-slot zills as "dancer zills" and 1 slot as "musician zills"

I have used both the one and two hole zills, but have found that (other than suleiman's) their sounds weren't as true to me. I tend to play a lot of variation in sounds on my zills and the added stability of 2-hole makes it somewhat easier to switch between sounds for me.

I would definitely be interested in more information though - I think there is a good chance that most of the single-holed zills I have dealt with are of the cheaper variety and that could account for some of the sound issues.

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Do you think there are enough people who love to play zills that would appreciate something like that being available?

Count me in, it sounds great! I like both, but was trained on double slotted by my dance teachers and drum teachers. Would love to get better on singe-holed cymbals (the good thick ones, not the cheap ones that are thin and out of control).

Me too! I'm a zill fanatic and this project sounds like a dream come true, even more so if the one holed Egyptian zills could be purchased with the CD.

Regards
Priscilla

Wow. I was hoping there would be interest for authentic stuff, but you all have blown me away. I am SO HAPPY to see there are dancers out there who love zills and want to carry on the tradition of playing them. I have seen many beginners (even mine) choose not to play them because they "get in the way of dancing".

Don't get me wrong, when I was working the Egyptians didn't play them all the time, just when they were imitating ghawazees or going around the audience for tips. (Aisha Ali is a great resource for this type of information.) But finger cymbals were part of who an Egyptian belly dancer USED to be. Not any more, sadly. Have you seen Dina play them or Randa or even Mona Said? I haven't. But Shoo Shoo played them well, along with Nelly Fouad, Sohair Zuki and now Dandesh. I would hate to see the art form die over there.

For now, the tradition is being carried on by musicians. I had lessons from Dina's sagat player. Dancers don't have to play them because their musicians do it for them. For me, this project is a labor of love. But it started out as a labor of love for Artemis, who is one of the best Turkish style zill players I have ever met. I wanted to showcase HER talents playing them - in the Vintage Orientale style and the Turkish style. Obviously the Vintage style uses 2 holed zills, along with the Turkish. But Artemis also uses one-holed zills, the Turkish ones mentioned above among others, and I realized they were difficult to come by over here (the real ones, not the junk).

So now I'm toying with the idea of doing 2 CDs, one for Artemis' style and another for Egyptian - because they are very different, as the students we share can tell you. (There are several on Bhuz, Ariel for one. I hope she chimes in.) But I didn't know if there would be interest. I have already ordered about 100 Egyptian zill sets for my students [DC area], but was wondering if there would be a wider interest. I am willing to take a small risk with this, but the economy being what it is ...

Anyway, that is the reason I brought up the topic. I wanted to know if there were people out there as crazy about zills as I am. ..g.:
Lord, what a long rambling explanation!

I use my one-holed zills from Egypt all the time, prefer them to the 2-slotted ones because of the wide range of sounds the on-holed zills can produce. I play them both for dancing and when I play in an Arabic band for weddings, parties, etc.

I am a recent convert...I don't think I can ever go back to American zills now I've started playing with so many sound possibilities.

I would love to learn more about this! I've only ever experienced low quality one-hole zills. I never heard that you could make a wider range of sounds with one-hole zills so there's a knowledge gap for me that needs filling. And I'd be very interested in buying a CD in a set with good zills.

Originally Posted by jilyan

I would love to learn more about this! I've only ever experienced low quality one-hole zills. I never heard that you could make a wider range of sounds with one-hole zills so there's a knowledge gap for me that needs filling. And I'd be very interested in buying a CD in a set with good zills.

Same here. I've only experienced the low quality as well.

I would totally buy the CDs and good one-hole zills.

I love zilling and want to learn as much as I can!!!

I love my El Coyotes too, but lately I've been playing Afghanis with loose elastic, and I like the feel/sound of those.

I don't know the difference in playing styles between single hole and slotted cymbals, so I'd be very interested in learning this. Is it because of the hole (looseness or tightness in play style), or because single-holed cymbals usually have different tones?

Karim Nagi told us Egyptian cymbals had many different sounds, and weren't made to precision standards the way Saroyan makes his. He said he just sorts through the bins until he finds 4 that he likes. I would like to know more about how Egyptians prefer the cymbals to sound.

I have a nice set of Suleyman el Coyote one-hole sagat, and like them very much. I play them the same way I'd play a double-slotted set. I'd be interested in an instructional CD that teaches technique specific to the one-hole kind.

If you sold your CD bundled with a set of nice-quality sagat from Egypt, I'd buy that bundle.

Yeah, I'm a total convert to the thick-metaled one-holed zills. Harder to play, but such a dynamic variety of sounds.

And there is such a difference between Turkish zill playing and Egyptian sagat playing. I had this moment of epiphany this past weekend in Aszmara's zill workshop I wanted to discuss with you in class this week, Yasmin. Besides the differences in patterns and the parts of the music you play to, there's a whole difference in how you handle the zills as an instrument, and how you use them as a part of your dancing.

I have a pair of the Zildjian musician's zills, the single-slot ones--I love the sound and tone of them, though I'm not all that adept with them yet. I would love more information on how to play them well, and I'd *particularly* love information on Egyptian sagat playing.

I have a set of one-holed musician cymbals from Zildjan. They are my absolute favorite. They are a bit wobbly but I guess I'm just used to it because it doesn't bother me. I also just bought a pair of silver pro Saroyans at Rak West (double holed). I thought I'd give them a go for when I need to play faster or clearer (sometimes the single holed ones can get a little muttled if you're not careful).

Originally Posted by Serpentine

In preparation for the instructional Zill CD Artemis and I are doing, I was curious if any of you zill enthusiasts know or like playing the authentic Egyptian one holed zills?

After studying them in Egypt I have come to love the variety of sounds they produce and was wondering if anyone else has come to love them as I do...

I have heavy large gold color Turkish Zills from Istanbul with one hole. I can use it with round elastic or other wider elastic, but I think the way I play is also like Jamila Salimpour suggests that support the zill with the ring finger. I can play my Turkish zills fast and loud this way is perfect for live music solos.

Originally Posted by Khaleela

I was going to ask if anyone might know of a good supplier for Zildjians? I use Saroyan's now but I'm not totally inlove with the sound and I heard Zildjians were really good. I'm interested in trying the one-holed zils as well since I like a challenge.

Have dancers always used the one-holed zils and then the two-holed ones came along?

You might like Suhaila Salimpour zills. They are $60 I think but large and loud and two holes....I personally love them, but they are heavy. Good for live music

I personally tried Turqouise, Saroyan Professional, Turkish one hole, Zilljian two holed (hard to find and pricey), Suhaila Salimpour, and I also tried little bit Afgani from Saroyan.
I love Zilljian, Afghani and right now I am always using Suhaila Salimpour zills...Zilljian is brass strong sound, TUrkish zills are loud and good for live music, quite wobbly so you need to support them with your ring fingers while you are playing them, Suhaila Salimpour zills are little heavy but nice not too deep not too high sound.