Thread: More Meleya Clips like this, with guy and girl

I am looking for more clips like this one, where there is a guy and girl dancing the Meleya Leff. This one is so good!..l;,
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ZrXUkeKag]YouTube - Melaya Leff/Iskanderani-Alexandria Duet with Mohamed Shahin[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W24MbB5O9oU&feature=related"]YouTube - Eskandarany - melaya leff[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri6ccSIE4Hg&feature=related]YouTube - Iskandrani-Melaya Laff by Mohamed Shahin[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7a9Ut0M1U&feature=PlayList&p=91588322ADD 40066&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2]YouTube - Melaya Leff[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEOkTZstJYw]YouTube - Melaya Leff Duet/Mohamed Shahin & Katya Faris, Chicago[/ame]

Great clips!!

I was trying to decide if the first clip's female dancer had such a wide-legged stance because it was a feature of the choreography or unique to her presentation, when I realized that the first and fourth clips are the same dancers doing the same number, at two different venues from two different angles. Do other dancers dance with their feet that far apart? Is it just her? Is it a Mohamed Shahin choreography thing?

I know I've seen other dancers do Melaya Laff with a closer foot position. Melaya Laff is supposed to be coarser than theatrical raqs sharqi, but is it supposed to be that rough?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I was trying to decide if the first clip's female dancer had such a wide-legged stance because it was a feature of the choreography or unique to her presentation, when I realized that the first and fourth clips are the same dancers doing the same number, at two different venues from two different angles. Do other dancers dance with their feet that far apart? Is it just her? Is it a Mohamed Shahin choreography thing?

I know I've seen other dancers do Melaya Laff with a closer foot position. Melaya Laff is supposed to be coarser than theatrical raqs sharqi, but is it supposed to be that rough?

I'm thinking it's her personal style. I haven't delved to far into melaya leff, so I haven't had very much exposure to it. I watched some of her other videos and the stance was in them as well.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I was trying to decide if the first clip's female dancer had such a wide-legged stance because it was a feature of the choreography or unique to her presentation, when I realized that the first and fourth clips are the same dancers doing the same number, at two different venues from two different angles. Do other dancers dance with their feet that far apart? Is it just her? Is it a Mohamed Shahin choreography thing?

I know I've seen other dancers do Melaya Laff with a closer foot position. Melaya Laff is supposed to be coarser than theatrical raqs sharqi, but is it supposed to be that rough?

I haven't watched all the clips, but the first one would be on the edge of "milaya lef" for me - she doesn't actually do much with it - and more an Iskanderi tableau - hair splitting I know.

The first piece of music has a lot of men's folk dance music in it. When we used it for milaya with Denise Enan she had us changing character and doing similar stuff to what Mo was doing - ie wide leg, rocky jumps - "men's style" as she called it.

Originally Posted by artsygirljoy

I am looking for more clips like this one, where there is a guy and girl dancing the Meleya Leff. This one is so good!..l;,
YouTube - Melaya Leff/Iskanderani-Alexandria Duet with Mohamed Shahin

such a great choreo, love this guy!

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I was trying to decide if the first clip's female dancer had such a wide-legged stance because it was a feature of the choreography or unique to her presentation, when I realized that the first and fourth clips are the same dancers doing the same number, at two different venues from two different angles. Do other dancers dance with their feet that far apart? Is it just her? Is it a Mohamed Shahin choreography thing?

I know I've seen other dancers do Melaya Laff with a closer foot position. Melaya Laff is supposed to be coarser than theatrical raqs sharqi, but is it supposed to be that rough?

its the same choreo, and they both dance it with the same large stance. so i think its the style of the choreographer Mohamed Shahin, none of the other videos that i've seen, or any of the research i've done says anything about that wide stance.

I took this workshop with him in 2008 when he was in Virginia, and have the DVD for the choreography, but unfortunately it only works for his first run through of the choreography and then freezes when it comes to breaking down all the moves! I performed his choreography a couple times--the shortened and slightly different version of the girl/guy clips above--that he teaches for solo dancers. I just took a look at the part of the DVD I can watch as he is performing amongst all of us girls and I *think*, and this is from my recollection of the dance and the DVD, that the stance might be somewhat of a feature his particular choreography. Perhaps it looks less extreme on a guy and without a very short milaya dress on, but the choreography is fast and more ballet-like actually. Our legs (and his) were farther apart when we were doing those hip accents from side to side (hip,hip, milaya over arms) and the to get the effect of the upper body sway, the legs were placed also farther apart because you are using them as part of the sway, shifting your weight from side to side, and not just the upper half (sway, sway, turn), which seems very ballet or "western" to me for whatever reason. There was also an arabesque in the choreography that he taught where you turn almost 360 degrees in a low arabesque, touch down on the back foot that was arabesquing behind you, and then pop that hip up on the accents, which would look like a wider stance in a short dress. For the bouncy walking though, we all took tinier steps crossing one foot in front of the other, partly because the choreography is quite fast so you can't go too big. And there was a bit of walking covering room--you'd walk-walk one way, sway and then suddenly change directions by turning all in a fast eight counts and that seems to take up space. It was a challenge but great fun!

I'd say that his choreography is lighter in feel than some of the folkier versions I have seen--lots of swaying, and turns, more like Reda stuff, a little more refined actually despite the slightly wider stance thing.

I present to you: my absolutely fabulous teacher Ahmed Refaat, I looove his eskanderani choreos. Unfortunately this clip is very short, but it`s too good not to post in this thread! The eskanderani is from 1.20 - 2.30: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqB7j_SvpC4"]YouTube - Ahmed Refaat - promo video for "CAIRO! festival"[/ame]

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I was trying to decide if the first clip's female dancer had such a wide-legged stance because it was a feature of the choreography or unique to her presentation, when I realized that the first and fourth clips are the same dancers doing the same number, at two different venues from two different angles. Do other dancers dance with their feet that far apart? Is it just her? Is it a Mohamed Shahin choreography thing?

I know I've seen other dancers do Melaya Laff with a closer foot position. Melaya Laff is supposed to be coarser than theatrical raqs sharqi, but is it supposed to be that rough?

Actually, proper Egyptian technique is not taught with your legs together. It's taught with your feet, knees and hip joints aligned on top/under each other for maximum benefit of weight changes. The "glue your knees/feet together" partially comes from Turkish style where the feet and the weight center is in the middle under your body
....instead of weight center in the middle and two points of reference to move between as in Egyptian.
...and comes from people being culturally trained to keep their legs together at all times.

It "looks" more esthetically pleasing with the feet closer too, according to some schools of thought. But, proper Egyptian is not as close-kneed and foot-ed as most dance it.

DaVid

Michelle, these are such awesome clips and are exactly what I was looking for! I am going to be working with some dancers this summer who have swing/salsa background on a Meleya number for a dance showcase and I was trying to show them how to incorporate an active guy part. Yay!..l;, Thanks so much!

Amira this is so informative and I really appreciate it. I will need to get this group some expert tutelage , of course, but I also needed to give them the initial background and info on the dance before we can proceed. I am sooooo stoked! Thanks!

Originally Posted by raqsmarta

I present to you: my absolutely fabulous teacher Ahmed Refaat, I looove his eskanderani choreos. Unfortunately this clip is very short, but it`s too good not to post in this thread! The eskanderani is from 1.20 - 2.30: YouTube - Ahmed Refaat - promo video for "CAIRO! festival"

Love it!

Originally Posted by raqsmarta

I present to you: my absolutely fabulous teacher Ahmed Refaat, I looove his eskanderani choreos. Unfortunately this clip is very short, but it`s too good not to post in this thread! The eskanderani is from 1.20 - 2.30: YouTube - Ahmed Refaat - promo video for "CAIRO! festival"

sexy!

Originally Posted by david

Actually, proper Egyptian technique is not taught with your legs together. It's taught with your feet, knees and hip joints aligned on top/under each other for maximum benefit of weight changes. The "glue your knees/feet together" partially comes from Turkish style where the feet and the weight center is in the middle under your body
....instead of weight center in the middle and two points of reference to move between as in Egyptian.
...and comes from people being culturally trained to keep their legs together at all times.

It "looks" more esthetically pleasing with the feet closer too, according to some schools of thought. But, proper Egyptian is not as close-kneed and foot-ed as most dance it.

While I understand your point about Turkish being more close-legged than Egyptian, the girl in Clips #1 and 4 is often standing with her feet well outside of her hip line. It sounds from what Amiraofannapolis wrote that Mohamed Shahin intended his female partner to be doing moves with a wide stance, and I can see the reason why you might do it on the swaying steps, but my personal preference is to not do hip accents with your legs spread so far apart that you could roll a beach ball between them without hitting anything. There's "flirty" and then there's, "Hello, sailor!" Probably not the (albeit, no doubt authentic) Alexandrian seaside tableau Mr. Reda had in mind when he cooked this up....

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

While I understand your point about Turkish being more close-legged than Egyptian, the girl in Clips #1 and 4 is often standing with her feet well outside of her hip line. It sounds from what Amiraofannapolis wrote that Mohamed Shahin intended his female partner to be doing moves with a wide stance, and I can see the reason why you might do it on the swaying steps, but my personal preference is to not do hip accents with your legs spread so far apart that you could roll a beach ball between them without hitting anything. There's "flirty" and then there's, "Hello, sailor!" Probably not the (albeit, no doubt authentic) Alexandrian seaside tableau Mr. Reda had in mind when he cooked this up....

:) Well, what you are reacting to is the fact that the dancer is bowlegged (I can tell after having watched other clips and pics of her last night). She's standing with her weight on one leg at a time - but due to the line of her leg, she doesnt look "aligned". No offence to the dancer! Just observed this.

Similarly I always used to get scared for people's knees when they would "bend them in", until I saw a dancer that was knock-kneed dance... she basically had no other options than to follow the line of her skelaton, if you know what I mean.

Or there's Asmahan, with her whole flock of admirers:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmGofRQen4M]YouTube - Asmahan[/ame]

Originally Posted by david

:) Well, what you are reacting to is the fact that the dancer is bowlegged (I can tell after having watched other clips and pics of her last night). She's standing with her weight on one leg at a time - but due to the line of her leg, she doesnt look "aligned". No offence to the dancer! Just observed this.

She may be a little bowlegged, but she is making the problem worse with a combination of keeping her feet far apart, bending her knees a little more than necessary, and dancing with a low center of gravity. That posture would be unflattering even on a straight-legged dancer.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

She may be a little bowlegged, but she is making the problem worse with a combination of keeping her feet far apart, bending her knees a little more than necessary, and dancing with a low center of gravity. That posture would be unflattering even on a straight-legged dancer.

Really now? I dance like that all the time and I never hear anything about it looking unflattering...So does Fifi. So does Faridah Fahmy, so does Lubna Emam, so does Faten Salama....need I go on?

When you're bowlegged you will look like you are standing WAY appart with your legs due to the alignment of your knees even if you stand with your feet closed. The dancer is doing the dance style JUST as it is intended, Tourbeau. Shaabi/Melaya leff is a folk based dance and is danced with knees bent (to flatter looong kicks with the lower leg) and with a low center.

It's just the optical illusion due to the structure of her legs that you are reacting to it the way you are. Believe me, I have a dance friend that used to get flack for standing too wide legged ALL the time - turns out, she was just bowlegged.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

She may be a little bowlegged, but she is making the problem worse with a combination of keeping her feet far apart, bending her knees a little more than necessary, and dancing with a low center of gravity. That posture would be unflattering even on a straight-legged dancer.

So essentially what you're saying is that a dancer that's bowlegged should fight her bone structure and injure herself to accommodate "esthetics"...hmfr.. I dont agree, I'm sure you understand why.

Originally Posted by david

Really now? I dance like that all the time and I never hear anything about it looking unflattering...So does Fifi. So does Faridah Fahmy, so does Lubna Emam, so does Faten Salama....need I go on

When you're bowlegged you will look like you are standing WAY appart with your legs due to the alignment of your knees even if you stand with your feet closed. The dancer is doing the dance style JUST as it is intended, Tourbeau.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about these videos. I know what bowleggedness looks like. Jeff Foxworthy is bowlegged. Katya Faris has bad dance posture in those clips. I have watched her clips a couple of times now, and periodically paused them, especially the fourth one because I think the sight lines are clearer. Her feet are farther apart than her shoulders and her knees are bent considerably more than what is typically used in this style. Please direct me to a video or a still picture of Fifi, Farida, Lubna, or Faten Salama where it looks like she is squatting over an invisible latrine.

So essentially what you're saying is that a dancer that's bowlegged should fight her bone structure and injure herself to accommodate "esthetics"...hmfr.. I dont agree, I'm sure you understand why.

No, what I am saying is that a professional dancer has an obligation be aware of his or her limitations, and he or she should work to minimize the visual impact of them. If you know you have a particular physical liability, you should be aware of what calls attention to it, and make an effort not to accentuate it. Individually being bowlegged, having an exaggerated bend in the knees, and dancing with a low center of gravity are not major flaws, and in the case of the latter, may be required by the style, but when you combine all three, they can create an unappealing appearance--at least in Middle Eastern dance. (I think there may be some styles of African dance where this look is desired.)

If you are bowlegged, you are bowlegged. Perhaps orthotics in your shoes can offer some correction, maybe not. I'm not an orthopedist. However, if bowleggedness is a problem, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that a such a dancer--particularly a professional dancer--should be conscious of foot positioning and should be making an extra effort to keep the rest of his or her posture properly aligned and lifted.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I[snip]are bent considerably more than what is typically used in this style. Please direct me to a video or a still picture of Fifi, Farida, Lubna, or Faten Salama where it looks like she is squatting over an[snip]

Dear Tourbeau....my bad, I didnt mean to include Faten in that listing. Now onto the matter at hand...

Take these references

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIJs8IkhWgw]YouTube - The Egyptian Star - Fifi Abdo[/ame]
Check Fifi's body positioning in the second clip - low center, and you can see the direction and outline of her thighs in her skirt...also, note her posture and stance at the immediate point the clip switches over to the shaabi clip on the end in purple...Fifi is nutorious for using this stance and posturing along with low center.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb2cn-0Ux7o]YouTube - Lubna Emam[/ame]Lubna Emam's stance is not extreme in this clip - but take it as a point of reference along with her low center.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYAvEr8XNgk]YouTube - Lubna saidi[/ame]Here however...Lubna's stance, center, and posture for Saiidi is what first caught my eye along with thousands of other dancers around the world... the power she achieves in her movements through bringing these characteristics and qualities into her dancing are mindblowing.

NOW, take an imaginary version of photoshop and "move" the knees out from the stance that these dancers are in, change the angle they are standing in..shorten the skirts... what do you get? THAT along with the fact that male choreographers often do not take into consideration that female dancers in posture straight on is not always flattering, will give you what you have in these video clips. I've seen it again and again in choreographies by male dancers - even female dancers - that are waaay famous even.

In the west we are so obsessed with "perfection in lines" that we kill the underlying dance styles and compromise the integrity of the dance to bring Ballet, modeling and "esthetics" into the dance styles. One of the biggest problems I fight as a coach, instructor and mentor is exactly this inane need to keep the knees and thighs glued together - thus losing momentum and quality and range of motion.

I am not saying that Katya couldn't have modified it, it just comes across as if you are totally bashing her, and frankly - pretty snappy. So, I had to try to enhance your preception. Whether you accept the answer or not, that's up to you, really. I'm just offering insight. You can keep on compromising your range of motion by your "esthetic" restrictions, I'm just telling you what facts are - and how this may be affected by bowleggedness.

As an aside, David, Faten's posture and leg positions are often very much like Lubna's in the above clips, so I'd say you can put her back on the list if you like.

"Squatting?" Perish the thought.

Originally Posted by Zana

As an aside, David, Faten's posture and leg positions are often very much like Lubna's in the above clips, so I'd say you can put her back on the list if you like.

"Squatting?" Perish the thought.

Thank you for clearing that up - I'm putting Faten back immediately.

Of the clips you've posted, only the one of Fifi in the purple dress looks similar to what Katya is doing, and Fifi only holds that position while she is swaying side to side, and then she shifts her feet closer. I see dancers using a shoulder-width foot position and low center of gravity, but they are not using an exaggerated bent-knee position. As I understand it, you believe Katya's stance is an unavoidable side effect of her bowleggedness. I think she is not as bowlegged as you do, and that her problem is mostly postural, albeit exaggerated by the choreographer's stylization. We will have to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by david

THAT along with the fact that male choreographers often do not take into consideration that female dancers in posture straight on is not always flattering, will give you what you have in these video clips.

If you want to get even more off topic, we can discuss the theory that some male choreographers, particularly ones native to the Middle East, often subconsciously--or even consciously--instruct dancers to do things that make them look unfeminine and sleazy, because they have an unresolved mental conflict over the reputation of dancers in their culture. (Note: I have never worked with Mohamed Shahin, and I am not implying that this statement is applicable to him. From what I've heard, this seems to be more of a problem with lower-profile individuals, not top-name choreographers.)

...just comes across as if you are totally bashing her, and frankly - pretty snappy.

We all know how we sound in our own heads, but perhaps you are unaware of how snappy you also can sound. I may have judged Katya harshly, but I feel very strongly that if you are going to "put yourself out there," you should strive for the highest standards you can. I do not have a ballet background and I do not demand that other dancers must have one to be any good. However, there are principles of basic stagecraft that everyone should learn and follow, regardless of the extent of their formal training. Unless you are engaging in some sort of performance art about your physical vulnerabilities, you have a responsibility as an entertainer to minimize your inherent liabilities, lest they detract from what you are trying to accomplish on stage.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

[snip]If you want to get even more off topic, we can discuss the theory that some male choreographers, particularly ones native to the Middle East, often subconsciously--or even consciously--instruct dancers to do things that make them look unfeminine and sleazy, because they have an unresolved mental conflict over the reputation of dancers in their culture. (Note: I have never worked with Mohamed Shahin, and I am not implying that this statement is applicable to him. From what I've heard, this seems to be more of a problem with lower-profile individuals, not top-name choreographers.)
[snip] Unless you are engaging in some sort of performance art about your physical vulnerabilities, you have a responsibility as an entertainer to minimize your inherent liabilities, lest they detract from what you are trying to accomplish on stage.

I am sorry if I came off snappy - I just usually really enjoy your posts and was caught off guard by your tone on this thread, that's all. I agree that we all have a responsibility as entertainers to minimize..no hang on, we as practitioners of dance have a responsiblity to our own bodies to minimize any inherent liabilities. Yeah, that's it.

I totally know what you mean by the comment you make about male choreographers (I could say the same about a number of female choreographer in reference to both female and male dancers). Although, guidance may even in some cases be read differently just becase it comes from a male/female/person of XX culture...I've learned to be very clear in how I express myself in my instruction - and I'm still working on finding the right way around this issue. I think it's a continous struggle.

Again, I must have just misread the tone of you post. Sorry.

DaVid

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I know I've seen other dancers do Melaya Laff with a closer foot position. Melaya Laff is supposed to be coarser than theatrical raqs sharqi, but is it supposed to be that rough?

Originally Posted by AmandaRose2

its the same choreo, and they both dance it with the same large stance. so i think its the style of the choreographer Mohamed Shahin, none of the other videos that i've seen, or any of the research i've done says anything about that wide stance.

I was thinking about this very thread recently- as I work with an Egyptian dancer from Alexandria, and he and I recently did a duet. He's been a folk dancer his whole life. Started in his early teens, worked in Alex, Cairo, Sharm el Sheikh amongst other places. He moved here a couple years ago. (just want to share his qualifications)
Yes, some of the hip movements in this duet that he choreographed were with the legs separated, which made me uncomfortable. The way the choreography was set- some of the hips (the wide legged ones) were where there HAD to be weight shifts in order for the choreography to work, so it couldn't be done any other way, really.
BUT I asked him WHY and his answer was SO cute. It certainly had *nothing* to do with any gender issues.
"Atef, in belly dance, we usually do side to side hip moves with the legs closer together. This feels kind of funny;especially in the short meleya dress. Is it meant to be different? Why?"

Answer, paraphrased as his English is still a work in progress.
"This dance is about the pretty girls in part of Alex, my city. Back when my grandmother was a girl, she and her friends dressed cute. Really cuuuute, and they liked to flirt and catch the mens eyes. So they flirted and used their meleya to flirt. They carry meleya to be a good girl but they were really cute and everyone liked them. They flirt a lot, a lot, a lot". (this went along with demonstrations of very girly flirting LOL)
...all of this with a happy look on his face and warm memories of his grandmom.
I went on to ask about the stance and said "so would you say they were more beledi like Fifi as opposed to refined and lady like, like Tahia Karioka?"
"yes, beledi style. Then Reda made a dance about it."