Thread: Folky vrs Sharqi -- how do you dance to folky music?

I've been studying Modern Egyptian Raqs Sharqi, and I'm fairly comfortable in dancing in the traditional fashion as described by Hossam Ramzy, to Raqs Sharqi music -- where you use different body parts to illustrate different parts of the orchestra, etc.

My issue occurs when I listen to all that lovely old folksy music, where you don't have a lot of orchestration, no lazmahs, and there isn't much differentiation between verses. There's a melody instrument or two, and drums. I'm not sure exactly how to interpret that in a traditional fashion.

What little I've seen on video is basically the dancer keeping the beat with her hips, playing cymbals, and doing a little bit with the upper body/arms. This is basically what I WANT to do to the music, based on my American Cabaret training, but I keep thinking there's a more traditional, more "sophisticated" way to dance this music. (NOT that American Cab isn't sophisticated -- that's not what I mean.)

Any suggestions? If you want to know the music I'm actually talking about, I can post some track listings later. I'm talking about Egyptian folk, not Turkish/Armenian.

I just feel like I'm missing something MAJOR here, but I can't even really find video of what I'm talking about. Help plz!

Well depends a bit on what kind of folksy you mean. Post a few music clips, it would help a lot to understand what you mean, Egyptian folk can be a lot of different things.

Have you taken a look at the videos of the Reda troupe and Firqat Kawmiyya (National Folkloric Troupe)? Those might give you some ideas of staging for folk-type music and shows. Another good bet is to search for specific folkloric types on youtube, such as Saiidi (tahtib, assaya), Ghawazee, Fellahi, and others.

There are a lot of different folk-type dance styles - it might be a good idea to pick one at first and work on it rather than trying to get a sense of them all at once. :) Good luck!

Originally Posted by aziyade

My issue occurs when I listen to all that lovely old folksy music, where you don't have a lot of orchestration, no lazmahs, and there isn't much differentiation between verses. There's a melody instrument or two, and drums. I'm not sure exactly how to interpret that in a traditional fashion.

Do you mean folk music as in sa`iidi or ghawazee or bedouin or Nubian or ... ? If so, first port of call would be to find out what (say) three typical moves are and try and dance incorporating those.

Next, find out what isn't traditional eg arm patterns for all ME folk, full body undulations for all Arabic folk, hip figure eights for ghawazee, posed on ball hip lifts for old style beledi etc. Then consider if you can justify them for artistic reasons. Does it keep the flavour of the original?

Basically keep it simple. Use repetition with variation. Arms frame or gesture only (get a translation of any words so you can react to the song). No cold isolations - there's always a little bit of give - to make it look "natural".

Do you mean baladi vs sharqi? You might want to get Ranya's Baladi Taqsim dvd set (2 disks). Excellent!! I went to an excellent workshop by Tamrahenna comparing baladi. Baladi (or any folksy Egyptian style)--more grounded, hip-centric, bouncy, playful, earthy, cheeky at times, definitely from inside out, let music come up through the soles of your feet and resonate through your body.Movements intiated from the hips rather than led by upper body. Less ground covering, more dancing inplace. With the baladi/folksy music where there are singers there is often a story. Often a silly sort of story (hence repeating the same choruses). Or it may be tarab with emotional mawaal and/or layali sections.

Here are some of the postural tips I have been given: weight in heels but tits over toes, open chest but also open back, torso "swings" from the shoulders.

Looking forward to hearing what others have to say

The music I'm thinking of is what I would classify as Arabic folk music:
Ah Ya Zain, Aina Zorga, Walla Dai (which I think is actually Turkish), Ya Moustafa -- where the music is basically an oud and drums, or a string instrument and drums.

I don't think it's baladi, at least in the context of the baladi progression. These songs just don't have that baladi feel. And it's not folkloric, meaning ethnic. It's just ... well, bluegrass in Arabic is the closest thing I can think of. Just folk music. The Armenian equivalent would be Kef music. So what I'm thinking of is Arabic Kef music.

I've seen these songs danced by Americans in the 70s and 80s and I like what they did, which is basically keep the beat in the hips while the upper body helped illustrate the melody. Almost always the dancer is playing cymbals. It reminds me a bit of Ghawazee, although the hipwork isn't the same.

That's vague, I know. I'm trying to find specific recordings on Radio Bastet to illustrate, because most of the music I have I got from un-named sources, or it's on a compilation CD somebody's cousin got from some restaurant somewhere. :/

I suck at recognizing music by their titles so the only one I know of the ones you are talking about is Ah ya Zain and for me it´s old school sharqi, I wouldn´t classify it as folklore at all. So I would basically dance sharqi/orientale to it.

lots of foot work, isolated from body.as taught by john compton, still taught and used here.we have a whole set of folky steps , very dioff from the usual 2/4 and 4/4, some only used for 6/8.

Cory, that's what I've seen done, and it's what I like. I guess I could take a clue from Hahbi Ru, then.

Actually, I'm going to ask Ranya Renee this, when I do her Baladi teleconference. See if maybe she thinks it's considered baladi music. Cool.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by aziyade

Cory, that's what I've seen done, and it's what I like. I guess I could take a clue from Hahbi Ru, then.

Actually, I'm going to ask Ranya Renee this, when I do her Baladi teleconference. See if maybe she thinks it's considered baladi music. Cool.

Thanks!

I wouldn't think of the songs you mentioned as baladi at all. Didn't mean to branch off into baladi but your original question wasn't clear about what music you were talking about.

Originally Posted by Souzan

I wouldn't think of the songs you mentioned as baladi at all. Didn't mean to branch off into baladi but your original question wasn't clear about what music you were talking about.

Well, I didn't either, but then when I think baladi I think accordion baladi progression and pretty much nothing else.

And here's where we run into trouble with words! Beledi (or Balady, or enter your favorite phonetic variation here) can mean everything from a style of progression dance to a shorthand for a popular rhythm or just imply a folkier version of Egyptian dance. All depending on who's talking.

But, if I understand the original question, you are listening to old-style flavored music that was done without the rich orchestration that has become common and wonder how to handle it. If you could see my vinyl collection from the '70s you'd understand my smile.One of my fellow teachers-who also loves the vintage-and I have a competition to see who can own the most versions of songs like Miserlou, Ay ah Zein and Aziza.

My personal take: proper sharki (or cab) style is basically stylized folk. This is a folk dance at heart. You can dance it pretty much the same, but since the music is a bit stripped down you might want to back off on some of the stagy 'tricks' and just keep it a little more down-to-earth.

Originally Posted by kahaz

But, if I understand the original question, you are listening to old-style flavored music that was done without the rich orchestration that has become common and wonder how to handle it.

YES! Exactly. I think (from browsing through the threads on Classical/Golden Age dance) that I'm going to find my answers in the black and white movies, with pre-Om Kalsoum music.

Guess I'm going to have to drag out the Stars of Egypt series and study those again!

Thanks everybody!

Originally Posted by kahaz

And here's where we run into trouble with words! Beledi (or Balady, or enter your favorite phonetic variation here) can mean everything from a style of progression dance to a shorthand for a popular rhythm or just imply a folkier version of Egyptian dance. All depending on who's talking.

But, if I understand the original question, you are listening to old-style flavored music that was done without the rich orchestration that has become common and wonder how to handle it. If you could see my vinyl collection from the '70s you'd understand my smile.One of my fellow teachers-who also loves the vintage-and I have a competition to see who can own the most versions of songs like Miserlou, Ay ah Zein and Aziza.

My personal take: proper sharki (or cab) style is basically stylized folk. This is a folk dance at heart. You can dance it pretty much the same, but since the music is a bit stripped down you might want to back off on some of the stagy 'tricks' and just keep it a little more down-to-earth.

I always make the distinction between balady (folk music) and taksim balady, also known as balady progression. It's also known as balady taksim,which I think is backwards because it starts out as a taksim then gradually progresses into the balady. In other words, "Balady" means to me that the whole piece is up-tempo balady/folk style. "Taksim balady" or "Balady Progression" means a piece that starts out as a taksim, then gradually gets faster to become "balady".

I agree too with Kahaz's personal take on "proper sharki (or cab) style" being stylized folk, that is, stylized balady.

Also keep in mind that a song title tells you very little as the same pieces of music can have very different treatments. When asked why all beledi improvs sounded so familar an Egyptian musician said it was because people tended to use the same pieces which they knew very well but beledi was not limited to them. He then took a golden age classic and did it as a beledi improv. No way you'd dance raqs sharqi to that!