+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 32



  1. #1
    Master BHUZzer Sonja2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,143
    Blog Entries
    2

    Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    I've been watching clips, and the difference is there but I can't put my finger on it. Help me understand the defining features of those 3 styles. (I'm not talking folklore here, of course).


  2. #2
    Mega BHUZzer Lara L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    2,913

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    goodness, I teach a 14 week course that barely scratches the surface of this topic! I would suggest picking up a few videos: Aradia of Las Vegas has a quick intro to the topic on DVD- Artemis' Turkish instructional DVD is a great source, Meissoun has a lebanese instructional DVD that I found not AS helpful in defining the style, but it is def. Lebanese style & if you have Aradia's DVD too you can see more of what she is talking about. I am still at work, I don't know if I will have time to condense class notes into bhuzable bite sizes, but we'll see ;)

    other than that, keep watching those video clips, you'll get the hang of it! if you can make it to workshops specifically on these topics, go out of your way to do it! it is so worth it! I am planning & plotting trying to work our how to get to Sahra Saeeda's Egyptian series now.


  3. #3
    Master BHUZzer Sonja2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,143
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Well I feel better knowing it isn't something I should just know, even after having danced quite a while. But, I WANT to know!


  4. #4
    Master BHUZzer nasila's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    3,759

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    There have been several threads on this (or at least threads on each style specifically) if you use the search funtion. My down-and-dirty take on it:

    Egyptian: contained movement, emotional connection to often complex music, use of internalized energy and strong core and posture (modern Egyptian anyways, not necessarily golden era style).

    Turkish: Posture is often more "laid back," with larger movements in general, more veil and arm work, zills and floorwork (this is for classic Turkish Oriental, different from Turkish Rom which is it's own style).

    Lebanese: looks more similar to Turkish Oriental than Modern Egyptian style IMO, although the Lebanese were ultimately responsible for the birth of raqs sharqi as we know it. Very big movements, usually involves faster music, is often done in heels...and just about every clip I've seen seems to involve the butt-lift move. ;)

    I'm sure DaVid and others will be along shortly to bust out their knowledge...
    Last edited by nasila; 05-27-2009 at 10:14 PM.


  5. #5
    Master BHUZzer norma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,710

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Personally, in my opinion as someone who has danced all 3 styles for almost 3 decades the only difference is the music! The steps are the same. You simply adapt the steps to the music.

    It's not that complicated ladies!


  6. #6
    Fotia
    Guest Fotia's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by norma View Post
    Personally, in my opinion as someone who has danced all 3 styles for almost 3 decades the only difference is the music! The steps are the same. You simply adapt the steps to the music.

    It's not that complicated ladies!
    Yes, because Turkish has that 9/8 rhythm that makes all the difference between Egyptian and Lebanese.


  7. #7
    tamrahennatx
    Guest tamrahennatx's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by norma View Post
    Personally, in my opinion as someone who has danced all 3 styles for almost 3 decades the only difference is the music! The steps are the same. You simply adapt the steps to the music.

    It's not that complicated ladies!
    Agreed; however, there are some basic differences in musical interpretation as well between native dancers of all three regions. If you took a Turkish dancer (a dancer FROM Turkey), took away her Mezdeke CD and played Agadan Alkak for her, I doubt if she would look anything remotely like Souhair Zeki, because she is accustomed to interpreting music a certain way.

    My biggest pet peeve has got to be when I hear that Lebanese is a cross between Turkish and Egyptian. That's pure horse hockey. Lebanese style is Lebanese style, Modern Egyptian style is exactly that. What's fascinating, though, is how similar classical Egyptian is to classical Lebanese. It seems that before the 1970's, the two styles shared more similarities, but I've noticed that after Nadia Gamal, Lebanese style seemed to have become more differentiated from Egyptian - or maybe it was something that happened vice-versa.

    Modern Turkish style (Didem, Asena, etc) surprisingly reminds me a lot of Suhaila style - much more western in it's approach to the music than Lebanese or Egyptian.


  8. #8
    Official BHUZzer sabriyetj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    207

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by tamrahennatx View Post
    Agreed; however, there are some basic differences in musical interpretation as well between native dancers of all three regions. If you took a Turkish dancer (a dancer FROM Turkey), took away her Mezdeke CD and played Agadan Alkak for her, I doubt if she would look anything remotely like Souhair Zeki, because she is accustomed to interpreting music a certain way.

    My biggest pet peeve has got to be when I hear that Lebanese is a cross between Turkish and Egyptian. That's pure horse hockey. Lebanese style is Lebanese style, Modern Egyptian style is exactly that. What's fascinating, though, is how similar classical Egyptian is to classical Lebanese. It seems that before the 1970's, the two styles shared more similarities, but I've noticed that after Nadia Gamal, Lebanese style seemed to have become more differentiated from Egyptian - or maybe it was something that happened vice-versa.

    Modern Turkish style (Didem, Asena, etc) surprisingly reminds me a lot of Suhaila style - much more western in it's approach to the music than Lebanese or Egyptian.
    I'm not going to comment on differences in styles because it's too complicated a topic and in my opinion very time specific (there is so much cross copying that each style changes overtime). But I thought I'd share anyway....

    I've had a funny experience related specifically to what you said Tamrahenna. Asena actually told me that she adored watching Suhaila in Dances for the Sultan, and that she's credited her in plenty of interviews. So it wouldn't surprise me if other Turkish dancers haven't check her out too (specifically Didem there's the Ibo connection there).

    Here in the Middle East everyone watches Youtube and some musicians that I work with therefore attribute my sharper movements as being typically "Turkish" (since I'm half Turkish and everyone refuses to believe that I'm American or better yet that most of my dance training is from the US) when in fact I'm just a longtime Suhaila student.

    The "telephone game" has nothing on the Belly Dance community!


  9. #9
    Master BHUZzer Sonja2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,143
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Wow. So my question wasn't a silly one. So, philosophically, where do you stand on keeping each style "true" to itself? Impossible? Must do it?


  10. #10
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Lauren_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    14,542

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja2 View Post
    Wow. So my question wasn't a silly one. So, philosophically, where do you stand on keeping each style "true" to itself? Impossible? Must do it?
    Where I stand --

    When learning, I like to know where things come from. I want to be educated as a dancer (and, of course, as a teacher!)

    If I'm dancing at a multicultural festival representing a particular country, I want to be able to dance in the style of that country. There are also certain pieces of music that I think require dancing in a certain style. I would only do Egyptian to an Om Kalthoum or classical Egyptian song, for instance -- I would only do Turkish to a Roman Havasi (Turkish 9/8). Those are things I would mostly 'present' at a dance community event as a study in a particular style.

    But... when I'm doing my restaurant show, or dancing to pop music, or a drum solo -- I'm improvising. And I'm drawing from ALL the movement vocabulary I've ever learned. So of course I'm going to be mixing things up a bit. Same is true if I'm doing a choreography to something style-neutral. I'm seeking mainly to be entertaining!

    Sonja, I'm working on a series of online articles explaining each style. So far only the Egyptian Oriental is done, and I'm not sure how useful it is without a comparative style, but I'd love to have your (anyone's) feedback on this before I write the others. Like if there are glaring holes, info you wish was included, etc. It's at Belly Dance Stuff click on 'styles' then Egyptian.

    (I'm thinking some basic notes about movement vocabulary and typical musical choices should be added, for instance?)


  11. #11
    Mega BHUZzer Lara L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    2,913

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Oh, Lauren- I can't wait to read the series! I have to run now but I am making a date with myself to go peruse what you have so far...

    & I totally agree with you- I like to be able to pull off a particular style according to music or when the mood strikes me, & I like knowing where things come from, but part of the reason I have a hard time categorizing my personal style is just that- I am drawing on my full repertoire & improvising


  12. #12
    bdaddiction
    Guest bdaddiction's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Love these topics.

    I do Lebanese, but I have always learned to dance barefoot. My instructor is from Lebanon and danced since the age of 3. She is in her 50's. Furthermore, she calls it Oriental. So I don't know where the heel thing came from? I get confused when I see this on YouTube. You know I will have to ask her. Unless anyone else knows.


  13. #13
    tamrahennatx
    Guest tamrahennatx's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaddiction View Post
    Love these topics.

    I do Lebanese, but I have always learned to dance barefoot. My instructor is from Lebanon and danced since the age of 3. She is in her 50's. Furthermore, she calls it Oriental. So I don't know where the heel thing came from? I get confused when I see this on YouTube. You know I will have to ask her. Unless anyone else knows.
    Nadia Gamal wore heels, maybe because she was petite? I think that the dancers that came after her mimicked her style.

    I've also heard that some feel that going barefoot is a sign of low class - has anyone else heard similar? I know that I HATE going barefoot any more unless I know the dancing surface is CLEAN. I've had way too much "black foot" in my time, and I'm now permanently grossed out.


  14. #14
    bdaddiction
    Guest bdaddiction's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by tamrahennatx View Post
    Nadia Gamal wore heels, maybe because she was petite? I think that the dancers that came after her mimicked her style.

    I've also heard that some feel that going barefoot is a sign of low class - has anyone else heard similar? I know that I HATE going barefoot any more unless I know the dancing surface is CLEAN. I've had way too much "black foot" in my time, and I'm now permanently grossed out.
    OMG, that is too funny! ..l;, The low-class thing. Do you mean no class or poor?

    I don't ever want to say that to my instructor. It was like the time at my semi-private lesson that we asked, "Can we wear face veils?", she just shook her head no. I wasn't even going to ask, lmao! Same thing with the frontal pop or whatever, she hates that! She said, "It is not proper."

    But, my friend who danced with me did find a teacher who let her wear a face veil. This is a teacher who says to her that it is not called "belly dance", but "Middle Eastern Dance". Hmmm, but puts belly dance on her website and wears a face veil in one of her pictures. Contradictory if you ask me.

    I know I hate the whole black foot thing, but if I don't practice without my ballet slippers on sometimes I have some issues. It just isn't the same. If I had to learn some of the moves in heels I would die and probably would not look as graceful.
    Last edited by bdaddiction; 05-28-2009 at 12:55 PM.


  15. #15
    tamrahennatx
    Guest tamrahennatx's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaddiction View Post
    OMG, that is too funny! ..l;, The low-class thing. Do you mean no class or poor?

    I don't ever want to say that to my instructor. It was like the time at my semi-private lesson that we asked, "Can we wear face veils?", she just shook her head no. I wasn't even going to ask, lmao! Same thing with the frontal pop or whatever, she hates that! She said, "It is not proper."

    But, my friend who danced with me did find a teacher who let her wear a face veil. This is a teacher who says to her that it is not called "belly dance", but "Middle Eastern Dance". Hmmm, but puts belly dance on her website and wears a face veil in one of her pictures. Contradictory if you ask me.

    I know I hate the whole black foot thing, but if I don't practice without my ballet slippers on sometimes I have some issues. It just isn't the same. If I had to learn some of the moves in heels I would die and probably would not look as graceful.
    LOL, probably a little of each! But I think that poor is probably the better interpretation, like you (not literal you, lol) can't afford to wear shoes. It is a little odd to see someone in a $700 costume and bare feet, lol.

    I've worn all kinds of shoes, from lyrical sandals to 3" high heels. Currently, I'm in a flat foot phase and am wearing hermes sandals (which I updated with elastic instead of the wrap-around straps). I do dance differently in heels - some movements, such as deep backbends, are actually EASIER in heels, but other moves, such as shimmies - esp. egyptian-style shimmies - and big hip circles are harder for me in heels.


  16. #16
    Mega BHUZzer Lara L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    2,913

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    okay, I lied I went & read it right away- I am rather excited actually, this means I don't have to take my class notes into article phase, I can just point people to your site instead... (like I can give up any project!) of course there are a couple points I have that you didn't or that you have that I didn't, but I was happily surprised at how closely they mirror- great job, & I am sure the video links will be much appreciated! I am off to email my advanced students right now...


  17. #17
    Mega BHUZzer Lara L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    2,913

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by tamrahennatx View Post
    . Currently, I'm in a flat foot phase and am wearing hermes sandals (which I updated with elastic instead of the wrap-around straps). I do dance differently in heels - some movements, such as deep backbends, are actually EASIER in heels, but other moves, such as shimmies - esp. egyptian-style shimmies - and big hip circles are harder for me in heels.
    Oh, you are brilliant! I hate tying those darn things!

    & you have to dance differently in heels, it changes your whole center of gravity. I like them, myself, but only pull them out occasionally. No barefeet ever for me tho- partially because I have ugly toes but mostly because I have had too many rocks & beads in my feet- & last year on a supposedly just cleaned stage one of my friends got glass in her foot- yikes!

    like it or not, there is a stereotypical image of Lebanese dancers in heels- doesn't make barefoot less authentic in reality, but depending on the situation, you should be aware of what the public expects. If you were headed for Lebanon's version of so you think you can dance (I really can't remember what it was called!) you had probably better do it in heels, here in the states I can't imagine it matters quite as much (but I'm isolated in Alaska so I don't really speak from experience) Kind of like I can go out dancing with my hubby (if he would go) in flats, but in a ballroom competition you pretty much have to be in heels.


  18. #18
    Official BHUZzer akashablue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    390

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaddiction View Post
    OMG, that is too funny! ..l;, The low-class thing. Do you mean no class or poor?

    I don't ever want to say that to my instructor. It was like the time at my semi-private lesson that we asked, "Can we wear face veils?", she just shook her head no. I wasn't even going to ask, lmao! Same thing with the frontal pop or whatever, she hates that! She said, "It is not proper."

    But, my friend who danced with me did find a teacher who let her wear a face veil. This is a teacher who says to her that it is not called "belly dance", but "Middle Eastern Dance". Hmmm, but puts belly dance on her website and wears a face veil in one of her pictures. Contradictory if you ask me.
    Here I can see where the Lebanese and Egyptian styles differs. I have worn a cover up on my face when I perform Melaya Leff and the Melaya Leff is in the Egyptian style category. If I study an Egyptian/Arabic folkloric style that calls for my face to be covered then I will also do that. Besides that, I think of a harem girl when dancers talk about dancing with a face veil.

    Interestingly, Amani, the Lebanese dance, wore a face cover up (if there an official name)in one of performances I've seen on video. I think it's on one of the videos produced by Turquoise International and she's wearing a black dress.


    Quote Originally Posted by tamrahennatx View Post
    I've worn all kinds of shoes, from lyrical sandals to 3" high heels. Currently, I'm in a flat foot phase and am wearing hermes sandals (which I updated with elastic instead of the wrap-around straps). I do dance differently in heels - some movements, such as deep backbends, are actually EASIER in heels, but other moves, such as shimmies - esp. egyptian-style shimmies - and big hip circles are harder for me in heels.

    I also wear Hermes sandles or do bear feet when I dance or perform. I like trying to trying to portray Bint el Balad, country girl, like Fifi Abdo does. It depends on the floor I'm dancing on too. I've tried heels and felt it took away from my performance. Of course wearing heels is something I'd have to really practice to be comfortable in. Quite a few Egyptian dancers do dance w/o shoes like Dina but no ones looking at her feet Souheir Zaki wears or used to wear a sort of ballet flat in performances.


  19. #19
    tamrahennatx
    Guest tamrahennatx's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    [quote=akashablue;430280]Here I can see where the Lebanese and Egyptian styles differs. I have worn a cover up on my face when I perform Melaya Leff and the Melaya Leff is in the Egyptian style category. If I study an Egyptian/Arabic folkloric style that calls for my face to be covered then I will also do that. Besides that, I think of a harem girl when dancers talk about dancing with a face veil.

    Interestingly, Amani, the Lebanese dance, wore a face cover up (if there an official name)in one of performances I've seen on video. I think it's on one of the videos produced by Turquoise International and she's wearing a black dress. /quote]

    Amani is actually doing Melaya dance to the song "Ya Bahaia," which talks about Bahaia's eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by akashablue View Post
    I also wear Hermes sandles or do bear feet when I dance or perform. I like trying to trying to portray Bint el Balad, country girl, like Fifi Abdo does. It depends on the floor I'm dancing on too. I've tried heels and felt it took away from my performance. Of course wearing heels is something I'd have to really practice to be comfortable in. Quite a few Egyptian dancers do dance w/o shoes like Dina but no ones looking at her feet Souheir Zaki wears or used to wear a sort of ballet flat in performances.
    Oh! I forgot! I have two pairs of those slippers, one in gold and one in silver. They are UGLY, but I am fond of them because of Souheir Zaki. They also have man-made soles, so I use them on nasty floors.


  20. #20
    Official BHUZzer akashablue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    390

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Amani is actually doing Melaya dance to the song "Ya Bahaia," which talks about Bahaia's eyes.
    Ah ha! I knew someone would know this. I saw the video so long ago I just remember what she wore. Thank you! I should just buy the video.


    Oh! I forgot! I have two pairs of those slippers, one in gold and one in silver. They are UGLY, but I am fond of them because of Souheir Zaki. They also have man-made soles, so I use them on nasty floors.
    LOL!!! ..l;, Yup, they do work!


  21. #21
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Lauren_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    14,542

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lara L View Post
    okay, I lied I went & read it right away- I am rather excited actually, this means I don't have to take my class notes into article phase, I can just point people to your site instead... (like I can give up any project!) of course there are a couple points I have that you didn't or that you have that I didn't, but I was happily surprised at how closely they mirror- great job, & I am sure the video links will be much appreciated! I am off to email my advanced students right now...
    Oh, I'm SO glad you found it useful! If you have time, feel free to share what you were going to include that I left out! The hardest part was NOT writing a novel, of course, but I worry that some of what I chose to leave out might be really helpful to a new dancer.


  22. #22
    bdaddiction
    Guest bdaddiction's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by tamrahennatx View Post
    LOL, probably a little of each! But I think that poor is probably the better interpretation, like you (not literal you, lol) can't afford to wear shoes. It is a little odd to see someone in a $700 costume and bare feet, lol.
    That is logical, but I am not a professional dancer, so I probably wouldn't ever own a $700 costume.

    Maybe that is what her family taught her and maybe they didn't have much money for shoes. She does believe in not spending so much on costumes, especially if you are just doing a recital once a year. She did dance for restaurants when she was younger barefoot, with some horror stories. Not sure how much her costumes cost, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by akashablue View Post
    Here I can see where the Lebanese and Egyptian styles differs. I have worn a cover up on my face when I perform Melaya Leff and the Melaya Leff is in the Egyptian style category. If I study an Egyptian/Arabic folkloric style that calls for my face to be covered then I will also do that. Besides that, I think of a harem girl when dancers talk about dancing with a face veil.
    My best friends husband is Egyptian, from Egypt, and Muslim. Didn't move to the states till his twenties. He despises this and says it is very improper. Not to mention, he really doesn't have any nice things to say about belly dancers in general, so we won't go there. .w.:

    There were some great books mentioned on another thread, because I do realize you can't believe everything you hear or read.

    Not knocking anyone for doing these things at all, so I hope no one get offended or that I am saying you are wrong. Just trying to learn.
    Last edited by bdaddiction; 05-28-2009 at 02:48 PM.


  23. #23
    Mega BHUZzer david's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    2,900

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by nasila View Post
    I'm sure DaVid and others will be along shortly to bust out their knowledge...
    Here I am.

    Ok, this is something that is difficult to explain in writing without being able to demonstrate. But, I will give it a shot to be precise - yet brief.

    Yes, there are many variations of why Egyptian, Turkish, Lebanese are different. My take is very conceptual and is as follows:

    Egyptian posture where the feet are aligned "under the obliques and hip joints", the weight actively shifts forward and backward on the feet, hips back, knees flexible, chest pushed into position by the upper back and held in place by the diaphragm, shoulders back on the lats, the hip and pelvis is adjusted into place by the abs pulling into the spine rather than tilting the neutral pelvis and not by the upper frontside, inside, outside or backside of the thigh gives allowance for movements to travel from the weight alignment axis of the body in a backwards and downward range. Along with the emphasis on weight changes, even counts, lyrical and rhythmic melody lines, and classical music structure - Egyptian style ends up looking the way it does.

    Turkish posture has a narrower footing and borrows the posture and alignment from folk dances with heavy focus on foot work. The posture is achieved by the weight being on the front part of the feet at all times, knees bent, along with the upper inner thigh, inner back of thigh, lower glutes, core and repositioning of the neutral pelvis bone upwards in the front (opening up the lower back), lifting the chest from the diaphragm, lifting the arms from the upper chest muscles (like in Ballet) allowing a more upward and twisting motion around the weight center in the feet. Along with the emphasis on odd count rhythms, lyrical melody lines, folk based music - Turkish style ends up looking the way it does.


  24. #24
    Mega BHUZzer david's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    2,900

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Lebanese posture has a turned out, wide at the knees, narrow at the feet positioning and borrows the posture and alignment from folk dances with heavy focus on foot work. The posture is achieved by the weight being on the front part of the feet, knees bent deeply, low center in the hip, abs contracted and pelvis tilted - no contraction in the thighs, chest lifted from the upper back and diaphragm, chest aligned over hip, arms lifted from the upper chest. (Ref: Dabkeh posture - "free legs"). It can feel or look squatted down compared to Egyptian or Turkish due to the knee bend and the chest being aligned on top of the hip rather than ahead of the hip visually balancing out the curves of the body in profile. This lends itself to wide movements. Along with the emphasis on rhythm and percussive folk elements, folk movement vocabulary (but not restricted to) - Lebanese style ends up looking the way it does.

    The cultural approach to "what is appropriate to do" in each country also plays an important role. Where as Egyptians tend to look back in time for "appropriateness", Turks look at innovation for "appropriateness" where as Lebanese look at upholding national identity, uniqueness and international trends for "appropriateness".

    Real easy you could say that dance styles with folk dances that emphasize on foot work such as Dabkeh or Halay tend to have postures with the glutes tucked under the upper body allowing the legs to be "ahead" and feet to be under them. Dance styles with a lot of "back hip" action tend to have a pushed back hip.

    You wont see this with the bare eye when watching an Oriyantal Tanzi, Raqs Sharki Lubnani or Raqs Sharki Masri dancer - but it is an ingrained approach to the posture that causes the result of the movements we see. The posture comes from a cultural understanding of "how your body is when you dance" and is almost subconscious. You see it very clearly when the folk dances are done though.


  25. #25
    bdaddiction
    Guest bdaddiction's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Thanks David!


  26. #26
    Official BHUZzer akashablue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    390

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaddiction View Post
    I need to take a college class on this or something. There were some great books mentioned on another thread, because I do realize you can't believe everything you hear or read. Not knocking anyone for doing these things at all, so I hope no one get offended or that I am saying you are wrong.
    Me too! My former teacher's husband who is Lebanese told his wife that balancing a cane is like a horse and pony show and not to do it. She in tale told us and I;ve never done it. I asked Suha from Lebanon(? I think that's her name) about this and she didn't feel that way. Funny, we're trying to learn about the culture and it's confusing because you have one person saying do this and nother saying don't do that. How are we going to learn.

    Religious along with cultural views do conflict with women dancing among other things. Did you hear that Fifi Abdo tried to donate money to the poor but her offer was declined because she is a dancer? This happened a long time ago but yeah.


  27. #27
    Official BHUZzer akashablue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    390

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Here I am.
    Turkish posture has a narrower footing and borrows the posture and alignment from folk dances with heavy focus on foot work. The posture is achieved by the weight being on the front part of the feet at all times, knees bent, along with the upper inner thigh, inner back of thigh, lower glutes, core and repositioning of the neutral pelvis bone upwards in the front (opening up the lower back), lifting the chest from the diaphragm, lifting the arms from the upper chest muscles (like in Ballet) allowing a more upward and twisting motion around the weight center in the feet. Along with the emphasis on odd count rhythms, lyrical melody lines, folk based music - Turkish style ends up looking the way it does.
    You are awesome!!!

    Your description reminds me of when I took Turkish style.

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Lebanese posture has a turned out, wide at the knees, narrow at the feet positioning and borrows the posture and alignment from folk dances with heavy focus on foot work. The posture is achieved by the weight being on the front part of the feet, knees bent deeply, low center in the hip, abs contracted and pelvis tilted - no contraction in the thighs, chest lifted from the upper back and diaphragm, chest aligned over hip, arms lifted from the upper chest. (Ref: Dabkeh posture - "free legs"). It can feel or look squatted down compared to Egyptian or Turkish due to the knee bend and the chest being aligned on top of the hip rather than ahead of the hip visually balancing out the curves of the body in profile. This lends itself to wide movements. Along with the emphasis on rhythm and percussive folk elements, folk movement vocabulary (but not restricted to) - Lebanese style ends up looking the way it does.
    This explains why Amani looks like she's in a wide stance when she shimmies. It always perplexed me as to why she did that. Someone told me it was an old style shimmy but explaination is on point.

    If you, not that you haven't I just don't know, develop a seminar/workshop on the different styles with demostrations, let me know!!!


  28. #28
    Mega BHUZzer david's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    2,900

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by akashablue View Post
    You are awesome!!!

    Your description reminds me of when I took Turkish style.



    This explains why Amani looks like she's in a wide stance when she shimmies. It always perplexed me as to why she did that. Someone told me it was an old style shimmy but explaination is on point.

    If you, not that you haven't I just don't know, develop a seminar/workshop on the different styles with demostrations, let me know!!!
    Lol, thank you. I am glad I was able to express it somewhat clearly in writing.

    I kind of teach some of this in all classes I teach. I mostly teach Egyptian style. Defining Egyptian style in people's body is also about telling them which options are out there and which option is Egyptian - and then define the Egyptian option to them. So talk about Turkish, Lebanese, ACB, ATS, ATF is not very uncommon in my classes, seminars and workshops. I have developed workshops clearly focusing on the difference as of now - they're not listed yet - but here are the subjects I am available for, in case it is of interest. (revamping websites these days!)

    I also emphasise the need of exposure to "the other styles" in order to better understand the style one chooses to emphasise oneself.
    Last edited by david; 05-28-2009 at 03:30 PM.


  29. #29
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Lauren_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    14,542

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by akashablue View Post
    it's confusing because you have one person saying do this and nother saying don't do that.
    YES! Because they're all individuals with their own preferences.

    Of course we realize that every Lebanese person probably has different likes, dislikes, and ideas about what's 'appropriate' than his next-door neighbor -- let alone his entire country or all Middle Eastern people.

    And yet, we never really stop wanting them all to be the same and each person to speak for them all. Wouldn't it be SO much easier to study 'their' culture and dance if they'd all just agree and be homogenous?

    I think it's also helpful to remember that this is, at heart, a solo art form. Each dancer is TRYING to be unique, the last thing they want is to dance exactly like another dancer, or wear a similar style of costuming.

    Each dancer wants to have her own, recognizable shimmy, big hip circle, etc. There are certainly similarites among each style, but there are also massive differences among dancers within each style.

    Randa and Dandash are contemporary Egyptian dancers, but they dance nothing like each other.


  30. #30
    bdaddiction
    Guest bdaddiction's Avatar

    Re: Egyptian/Lebanese/Turkish...what differentiates the styles?

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Lebanese posture has a turned out, wide at the knees
    Is this the squat thing that people say you should not do in the "Moves You Should Not Do" thread?

    Here is my reply in this particular thread:

    I am confused about the whole squat thing???

    My teacher makes us do a squat and move your feet forward so you move to the front. There are a couple of moves that have squats, and I feel if you can't squat low enough it just doesn't look right. I guess this is why she has us do this frequently.

    When you do this for the first time it isn't a pretty moment. Some can't even make it at first. Eventually, you look like you are floating to the front of the room, instead bouncing. I must say works the inner thighs though. ..l;,

    Not sure if I said that right? Anyone??? .w.:


Similar Threads

  1. Folk dance styles on a need-to-know basis
    By gotraqs in forum Belly Dance Traditions & Styles
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 07-23-2010, 03:00 PM
  2. the Suhaila catagory? Related to the styles thread
    By shems in forum Belly Dance Instructor Center
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 09-30-2008, 12:16 PM
  3. Styles of Belly Dance Primer - what have you guys already put together?
    By shems in forum Belly Dance Instructor Center
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-08-2008, 06:35 AM
  4. Dance Styles and Corresponding Movements
    By gotraqs in forum Belly Dance Traditions & Styles
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 09-23-2007, 05:49 PM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-04-2007, 07:31 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Statistics
  • Threads 40,827
  • Posts 592,337
  • Members 38,076
  • Welcome to our newest member, jonathan988


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199