Thread: Dancing with Daggers

Does anyone have any info on this? I've heard of it being done in traditional dance for ages, but only saw one example of it on an old 80's video.

The dancer came out in a typical Egyptian cabaret costume with two elaborate, yet rubber, daggers. She started doing a serious 3/4 shimmy around the stage. Then came to center stage and alternately thrusted the daggers at her belly in time with her shimmy. She continued this movement as she did hip slides and circles. Then went down to the floor on her knees. She continued the dagger thrusting as she did head twirls and back bends (almost zar-like). When she stood up she held the daggers overhead to end the routine.

Watching it was both fascinating and unsettling. But, I've always wondered what was the significants of the daggers. Is it like the sword thing (you're no master over me), or something mystical? Clues anyone?

I was wondering about this myself. I have seen the daggers and I asked a seasoned instructor/friend of mine and she said that was a dance they used to do back in the 80's but is not being done now for whatever reason. I'd love to learn the meaning and see an actual dance being done.

I've seen it performed but not with all the stabbing motions.

I can't be much help because I don't know anything about dancing with daggers, but Melina of Boston does an impressive sword and dagger act you may want to check out. Here is a youtube of it:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCEJueA_JnU]YouTube - Melina of Daughters of Rhea's Belly Dance Sword & Dagger Act[/ame]

I know that in Spain, dancing with daggers is more usual.
Here is a you tube video:

Oops! Sorry, I don't know how to post videos yet.
Here's the link:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ner4wxDkJho]YouTube - KAYRA DANZA Oriental / Danza con Dagas / Danc do punhal[/ame]

Oops! Sorry, I don't know how to post videos yet.
Here's the link:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ner4wxDkJho]YouTube - KAYRA DANZA Oriental / Danza con Dagas / Danc do punhal[/ame]

[QUOTE=ShazadiNahid;457428]Oops! Sorry, I don't know how to post videos yet.
Here's the link:

Wow- beautiful/powerful dance. Not at all like the one I saw.

I'd love to see more clips if anyone knows of them -and an explaination of what it's all about. My romantic mind is hoping for connection to some ancient ritual or love story ...well, I hope at least it's not just a 80's gimic

I think the dance you're talking about where the dancer pokes herself with the little daggers is Iraqi. We had a thread on it some time ago. Someone posted clips of the dance being done with daggers, a version with -- believe it or not -- plastic forks (maybe it was a picnic and there were no daggers available?) AND a modern music video that had scenes of dagger-poking. In every example the dancers seemed happy/cheerful/playful not morose or Emo.

I'm not very good at searching for old threads, maybe someone can find it? I think at least one of the clips featured Iraqi Rom dancers, too, but I can't remember the word for Iraqi Rom people...

Oh, oh, oh, I found it. And the word I was searching for was Kawliya!
This was a funny thread.

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/music-trad...+daggers+forks

Thanks Lauren the Qawliya clips in the old thread were great.

So, I guess I could assume the dancer in the clip I saw was Iraqi. Her movements were similar to the ones on the Qawliya clip. Eventhough her mood was very serious not at all joyful.

So, what does it all mean? I happily stab myself uh... why?

Love the video posted on here about Kayra, very powerful and very well put together.

I love that video of Kayra too. I watched a long time ago and never forget about it..It was the first time that I saw someone dancing with daggers...
I'd read on a website that the daggers mean dead and transformation and it was like a rite or cult to the Goddess Selkis (Selki, Selket),goddess of the scorpions.
I don't know how true this is.I also looked up the Goddess Selki, and didn't find anything about daggers...
Like Lauren said, maybe it's just a version of the Israeli dance...

In the Alexandria area, there used to be a fisherman's dance which was done with knives. The knives would be circled around the head (think Prince's I'm so beautiful move). The Egyptian government banned the knives, so when this dance is done in Egypt, they stick out their thumbs.

Or so I have been told. . .

{{{HUGS}}}

Thanks for the input. I'm off to look up Selket now. Seems like the trail's back in Egypt now.

Here's what I found out about Selket:
-ancient Egyptian Ntr (Goddess)
-she's tall beautiful with a scorpion on her head
-protects against bitting and stinging animals like scorpions and snakes
-protects one in this world and the next
-protector of the canopic jar that holds the larg intestines of mummies
-a short ode to her:
But ye who are just
fear not your death:
My breath brings life anew
should it be so deserved,
and your Afterlife is bright

Okay I know I'm jumping to conclusions here but perhaps it is a dance that says "I am good girl. I'll even stab my large intestines to prove that Selket will protect me from death"

Any other thoughts?

I have that 80's video clip as well. A few years ago in the Detroit area they had a dancer from overseas who did the dagger dance. It was strictly Iraqi. Even though the place she played at had an live band she had her own music. I remember the band telling me that it it was different but I don't remember why. Gypsy perhaps? The Iraqi crowd loved her because it was different but they all were emphatic that they didn't consider it belly dance either.

I came across this reference:
"An Iraqi singer knew of a double dagger dance that Iraqi dancers did, but they did not use large swords or balance them on their heads."

bellydance sword story

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

In the Alexandria area, there used to be a fisherman's dance which was done with knives. The knives would be circled around the head (think Prince's I'm so beautiful move). The Egyptian government banned the knives, so when this dance is done in Egypt, they stick out their thumbs.

Or so I have been told. . .

{{{HUGS}}}

Yes! Sahra Saida taught this Fisherman's dance at a workshop a few years ago. Alas, I can't remember the name of the dance (it does have a name) and I haven't seen it before or since. I'm sure Sahra would be the best person to ask. Maybe its on one of her videos if anyone has one?

This of course isn't to say other regions don't have a "dagger" dance, I'm sure there are several variations. But the Alexandrian one was super neato. ..g.:

Yes. It would make sence that many cultures would have a folk dance using daggers. After all there are spear and stick dances from all over the world.
The Alexandrian dance sounds intriguing. ...gonna go see what I can find out.

Originally Posted by audie

Here's what I found out about Selket:
-ancient Egyptian Ntr (Goddess)
-she's tall beautiful with a scorpion on her head
-protects against bitting and stinging animals like scorpions and snakes
-protects one in this world and the next
-protector of the canopic jar that holds the larg intestines of mummies
-a short ode to her:
But ye who are just
fear not your death:
My breath brings life anew
should it be so deserved,
and your Afterlife is bright

Okay I know I'm jumping to conclusions here but perhaps it is a dance that says "I am good girl. I'll even stab my large intestines to prove that Selket will protect me from death"

Sorry, but I think you are jumping to conclusions. Unless you've found reliable sources outside this thread, there's only the thinnest of hearsay connecting a dagger dance to Selket in the first place. (somebody remembers reading something on a website... could have been a purely fictional creation, could be misremembered...)

If you want to invent a dagger dance dedicated to Selket and present it as a fantasy dance, I think that's just fine and could be darned interesting, either as interpretive dance, modern dance, or bellydance fusion.

But I'd need a lot more solid connection to be convinced that there's a historical basis for it.

Well, I read that in a spanish website and translated the best that I could.
I never said that it was true. Personally, I don't believe it because I researched the goddess Selket and didn't find anything about daggers relate it to her.

If someone knows spanish, they can read what I found here:

Documento sin título

Elementos de la danza del vientre: la daga :: Jimena González
I don't know where they got their info, but it doesn't sound reliable to me.

Originally Posted by ShazadiNahid

Well, I read that in a spanish website and translated the best that I could.
I never said that it was true. Personally, I don't believe it because I researched the goddess Selket and didn't find anything about daggers relate it to her.

If someone knows spanish, they can read what I found here:

Documento sin título

Elementos de la danza del vientre: la daga :: Jimena González
I don't know where they got their info, but it doesn't sound reliable to me.

Thanks for the links. I translated it through Bable Fish. Not to sure about thier sources. The second site seems to be just quoting the first.

In the research I found there was nothing to relate Selket with daggers, either. I do know that Sekhmet in the patron saint (for lack of a better word) of surgeons and people who do precession cut work. There are rituals for her but I've never come across anything that mentions dagger dancing.

hmmm... I have a friend who is a Priestess in Kimetic religion. I'll try picking her brain. I'll let you all know what I find out.

My Iraqi husband just returned from Iraq today. He was visiting family for a wedding and had a blast. I asked him about the Iraqi dancers performing with daggers and he said it was an old style of dance that you don't see much in Iraq anymore. He says that the dancers are saying, "If you don't want me, I'll kill myself." He says it's a joke and not serious.

That's why they are smiling as they gleefully stab themselves with their fake daggers.,r:;

The cool thing is that he was very mad at his family for hiring musicians for the wedding and the henna party and NOT hiring dancers! I think he's mellowing a bit. ..g.:

Originally Posted by ZohraMostafa

My Iraqi husband just returned from Iraq today. He was visiting family for a wedding and had a blast. I asked him about the Iraqi dancers performing with daggers and he said it was an old style of dance that you don't see much in Iraq anymore. He says that the dancers are saying, "If you don't want me, I'll kill myself." He says it's a joke and not serious.

That's why they are smiling as they gleefully stab themselves with their fake daggers.,r:;

The cool thing is that he was very mad at his family for hiring musicians for the wedding and the henna party and NOT hiring dancers! I think he's mellowing a bit. ..g.:

An enlightened male indeed! Yes I think the dagger thing is very antiquated. It's a case of Dancer Beware. Don't imitate everything you see. I know in my area, Detroit, good plain old belly dancing aka Fifi Abdo/Nawga Fouad/Souheir Zaki/Tahia Karioka/Dina/Samara/Nadia Gamal/Wahida Hachim is what makes the grade. Like I said several years ago we had an Iraqi dancer who did the dagger dance. She was popular with the Iraqi clientele for about a year then faded away.

Originally Posted by ZohraMostafa

My Iraqi husband just returned from Iraq today. He was visiting family for a wedding and had a blast. I asked him about the Iraqi dancers performing with daggers and he said it was an old style of dance that you don't see much in Iraq anymore. He says that the dancers are saying, "If you don't want me, I'll kill myself." He says it's a joke and not serious.

That's why they are smiling as they gleefully stab themselves with their fake daggers.,r:;

The cool thing is that he was very mad at his family for hiring musicians for the wedding and the henna party and NOT hiring dancers! I think he's mellowing a bit. ..g.:

Yeah. Thanks for completing my education. What a great story. Don't think I'll be using the move in my next routine though.

Kuddos to your husband for understanding that every great party needs a dancer.

Originally Posted by norma

An enlightened male indeed! Yes I think the dagger thing is very antiquated. It's a case of Dancer Beware. Don't imitate everything you see. I know in my area, Detroit, good plain old belly dancing aka Fifi Abdo/Nawga Fouad/Souheir Zaki/Tahia Karioka/Dina/Samara/Nadia Gamal/Wahida Hachim is what makes the grade. Like I said several years ago we had an Iraqi dancer who did the dagger dance. She was popular with the Iraqi clientele for about a year then faded away.

Good point. Although, I think the move will go over well in my area. New Yorkers love drama. Dina and Fifi stylings are popular Nagwa (my hero) and Tahia would bore a GP audience. IMO

I MUST HAVE THAT MUSIC! OMG...it is soooo beautiful and the dancer hit all the emotional marks. Does anyone know the name of the song/artist and where I can get it?

Originally Posted by bdlana

I MUST HAVE THAT MUSIC! OMG...it is soooo beautiful and the dancer hit all the emotional marks. Does anyone know the name of the song/artist and where I can get it?

That is one of my absolute favorite songs! It is Raul Ferrando 'Yearning' and is on the BDSS Vol. 5 cd.