Thread: Dancing veil and not just flinging fabric - ?

Originally Posted by norma

I found this clip of Evan when posting on a different thread.
YouTube - Eva Cernik veil

This is great - what's the name of this song? It is so familiar, but I can't seem to put my finger on anything today...

Originally Posted by shems

This is great - what's the name of this song? It is so familiar, but I can't seem to put my finger on anything today...

It sound vaguely familar too me as well, but I don't know the name of it.

Originally Posted by norma

It sound vaguely familar too me as well, but I don't know the name of it.

Le Mouni el Gharumini, according to the orchestra.
I'm sure it has more than than one name though :)

Mariyah just posted this one, and I think it's beautiful, not veil flinging here:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3dZmTrxk6w]YouTube - Mariyah - Veil Dance[/ame]

Originally Posted by mathkitty

Mariyah just posted this one, and I think it's beautiful, not veil flinging here:

It is a pretty piece to watch, and there's no denying that she is a stunningly graceful and compelling stage presence, but I wouldn't call what she was performing Middle Eastern Dance in that clip. Other than a few hand movements and a hip roll late into the piece, the rest of the performance could have been mistaken for a contemporary routine by a dancer who had lots of Western modern and classical training--but absolutely no training in our dance.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

It is a pretty piece to watch, and there's no denying that she is a stunningly graceful and compelling stage presence, but I wouldn't call what she was performing Middle Eastern Dance in that clip. Other than a few hand movements and a hip roll late into the piece, the rest of the performance could have been mistaken for a contemporary routine by a dancer who had lots of Western modern and classical training--but absolutely no training in our dance.

Agreed.

And these statements could also describe most Wings of Isis performances I've seen.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Mmmmhmmm! Here's my favorite clip of a veil-as-lover style, featuring our own Mariyah. And music OTHER than Yearning.

YouTube - Oriental dancer Mariyah - New York - bellydance - veil

Mariyah's veil obviously has it bad for her.

oh, yes, yes, Mariyah! This is one of my favorites, too.

I'm a veil lover. I see the point about it sometimes being used as a crutch by newbies but think about it the way it influenced me...it was something I admired so I worked hard to learn it...that dedication spilled over into every area of my dance studies and helped propel me forward in general. I see the veil more as a part of my costume than as a prop...that just how I see it.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

It is a pretty piece to watch, and there's no denying that she is a stunningly graceful and compelling stage presence, but I wouldn't call what she was performing Middle Eastern Dance in that clip. Other than a few hand movements and a hip roll late into the piece, the rest of the performance could have been mistaken for a contemporary routine by a dancer who had lots of Western modern and classical training--but absolutely no training in our dance.

Hi, Thank you for the compliments. :)
I Just thought I'd make the point though, that this was not intended to be a Middle Eastern Dance Performance and it is not described as such. It is also not really Modern or Classical dance. It is just a dance I created on a particular theme and I have put no label on it stylewise. I have studied Oriental dance for the past 12 years and continue to do so. Over the years I have studied some in other dance forms and continue to do so but my knowledge and experience of Western classical and modern dance would be considered pretty rudimentary and I work at a very beginner level in those forms.
All of my veil technique comes from the study of Oriental dance and pretty much all of the veil work you see here could be used as part of a typical bellydance performance. So even though this performance in particular is not Middle Eastern dance, I think it is applicable to this thread on veilwork.

i'm currently working on some new veil stuff, think 1950s movies, or older. Hollywood diva, the veil piece in singing in the rain, a fake bellydancer from an old movie...

it's to another much overused song (windows of the east ;-)) but who cares, me and my students are having fun with it.

anyway, anyone done anything similar and want to share inspirational clips?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

It's funny how regional these things are. I've literally seen only TWO performance to this song, ever, in my area, and I go to almost every hafla there is. And those two performances were over a year apart...,

Originally Posted by norma

Same here. Never heard it before.....

I hadn't heard the song until recently (not a huge BDSS music user) and have never seen it performed. lol

I enjoy dancing with a veil but I get bored watching dancers do nothing but spin or stand in place and flap.

I think of the veil as a prop, a backdrop, and a dance partner.

Instead of thinking "what can I do with this veil?", think "How can I use this veil to accent my dance movements?". What kind of choreography would you do without any veil? Try beginning with that choreography, and work the veil into it.

In an American Cabaret style veil dance, it's Ok to make a big deal about unwrapping the veil. You can begin to unwrap, then rewrap or drape. After it's off, you can throw it across your neck and use it as wings.

Hold the veil out behind you and do beautiful snakey movements, let the soft fabric highlight yous. Or, hold the veil in front of you and walk into it with camels, etc. Or, drape the veil around a hip so the hip is clearly visible but framed in veil, and do crisp isolations with that hip

Originally Posted by nitewindz

I enjoy dancing with a veil but I get bored watching dancers do nothing but spin or stand in place and flap.

I think of the veil as a prop, a backdrop, and a dance partner.

Instead of thinking "what can I do with this veil?", think "How can I use this veil to accent my dance movements?". What kind of choreography would you do without any veil? Try beginning with that choreography, and work the veil into it.

I agree with this completely, and to some extent, it's true for any prop, although veil, fan veils, and wings seem to be the most common offenders when it comes to "too much prop, not enough dancing." Ask yourself, "If I went in with CGI and removed the veil from a video of my dancing, would I still have an interesting and coherent performance there, or would it look like I was an extraterrestrial stewardess acting out the emergency procedure speech on a UFO?"

Sometimes I think some dancers use the veil as an acrobat moreso than dancing. It seems that all they do is fling it around. But I am not the veil queen here either and I'm not the most prop-user dancer either so I'm not an expert. That's just an observation I made. Veil work is pretty sensitive because it's so close to the body. In fact, not too long ago, I got into a "fight" with mine for the first time which goes to show I have to work more on my veil work also.

I love well-done veil. Ethereal, dramatic, conceal/reveal. Your dance partner, your extension, your movement frame, your space. Sarah Skinner does exquisite veil; Alia Thabit has wonderful vigorous, passionate style to Natascha Atlas for example. Clumsy veil work: a lot of it around, prob gives viewers wrong impression.
I do teach veil to beginners, though I also agree with the reasons not to. I find it helps them to loosen up & feel beautiful. I keep it pretty simple, & have them release veil halfway thru, or just use for entrance.

Originally Posted by norma

Eddie "the Sheik" Kochak had some beautiful rhumbas for veil work. One of my favorites was Dance Rami from the Silver Anniversary album. It used to bring tears to my eyes.

And here I thought I was the only sappy dancer..g.: or chills..not quite as evocative but still lovely: Nila from Vol 6...

to beginners i teach veil near the end of the first year, and i concentrate on using the veil as a frame, and a few easy tricks and transitions.

but i've seen enough terrifying beginners veil choreo's as well... NOOOO.
i feel it's really important to get them on the right track right away... and to keep it very simple and to make them fall in love with the beauty of very simple things and work on flow and transition from the start, and not on , ohhhh a cooool trick

when i teach veil, i tell my students that thatkind of dancing to me is liking watching a circus act. it can impress me, but it doesnt move me.

Originally Posted by Fotia

Sometimes I think some dancers use the veil as an acrobat .

True, I do the same thing (incorporate some simple veil work and framing already at the end of the beginners' classes) The students love it, I love it :) and it makes them feel beautiful!

one thing for anyone to keep in mind is proximity to your audience. It will make a difference in what you do/how it looks. Also, LONG ago, using the veil was part of the dance that signified a young girl on the verge of womanhood and was meant to be fun and flirty. (This, when doing a full routine and telling "the story" of being a woman.)

Originally Posted by LiesaB.

Alia Thabit has wonderful vigorous, passionate style to Natascha Atlas for example.

Any clips of this anybody? I had no luck looking on youtube or google.

Originally Posted by khalima

Any clips of this anybody? I had no luck looking on youtube or google.

Alia's on Youtube, but I guess no veil dances. I am speaking from seeing her performances. I have one on a few yrs ago show vid, if I can ever figure out how to post it here, I will for sure. Maybe she has one she can put on youtube, I'll ask her. Just thought of that! :-)

[ame=http://www.vimeo.com/2262568]Folk Tours us camp event 2008 on Vimeo[/ame][/QUOTE]

Aszmara always amazes me, I feel lucky to have her here in NYC, I have seen her many times. I always tell smaller dancers to not fear the 4 yard veil and I cite her example. Shameless plug: In this video she is using a four yard veil I custom dyed to match her costume, and the first time I saw her dance with it live she was so beautiful she made me cry.

She's doing a veil workshop in CT on March 13th, if you can make it I HIGHLY recommend her.

there are some great veil clips on here! Since veil work is actually a western idea and not traditional to Oriental Dance, at least the way we use it, I think this is the place to use fusion music, or something like a rumba, chifti, or even 10/8 can be powerful. I love percussive veil, and fast veil when it's done well. Slow and dreamy is nice too, but it seems to be the norm, so something with energy and passion to stand out is nice, I think the Hungarian dancer Mercedes executed this in her performance. I'm also a huge fan of double veil work when it's done well.

Me personally, I like to use the veil for no more than 2 1/2 to 3 min max. During that time I make the veil my focal point rather than do veil work, dance, veil work, dance.......I prefer to make an impact statement with it, rather than dragging it out every couple minutes to do more veil work, but that's just my thinking. If I'm going to watch a dancer dance, then I don't want anything to distract from her hip articulations, and if she is going to do veil, then I want to see some awesome, dramatic veil, without a bunch of stops to do hip articulations!..l;,

ahem - slight threadjack

I'm very partial to Artemisia's veil dance

YouTube - Eilat festival 2009- Artemisia from...



or Aziza's piece to the same music -- I've been dancing this one and it just feels so goooood to do it.

YouTube - Aziza at Eilat festival 2009

What is that music? I've been loving it (and both of those clips) for absolutely ages!

"Yearning" by Raul Ferrando from Bellydance Superstars Vol 5.

Originally Posted by khadiya

ahem - slight threadjack



What is that music? I've been loving it (and both of those clips) for absolutely ages!

"Yearning" by Raul Ferrando from Bellydance Superstars Vol 5.

Ah ..g.:

That would explain why i don't know it! I've been seeing that title referred to as 'overused' in the last year and have been carefully avoiding it! ,r:;. I also don't own a single BDSS volume for some reason!

Thanks Jahbie!

Yes, like you I haven't used it because of the "overuse" comments. I love it though!!

Originally Posted by khadiya

Ah ..g.:

That would explain why i don't know it! I've been seeing that title referred to as 'overused' in the last year and have been carefully avoiding it! ,r:;. I also don't own a single BDSS volume for some reason!

Thanks Jahbie!

As a spectator I don't care for complicated veilwork at all. I like to see it float, for me it's nice if a dancer just makes a round dragging a veil behind her, with smaller gestures that influence the way it floats. the veil symbolizes the air and the wind, the sky and the cosmic stuff or else fiery flames which then is more dramatic, but I prefer the air- thing that a dancer drags the veil behind her, uses it during one or two arabesques or half turns as a background, a few spins, once toss it up in the air - that's it - beautiful! In order to be rather dancing and have a veil as a prolongation of oneself, not to make the veil the main thing... I have seen clips where - after clips with water-jug dances or the baking bread gestures well you see a veil dance where they really work the veil and I think: ok, laundry day... ..g.:
Ok I'll shut up for this thread is sure rather for true fans of entire veil routines...

Could anyone tell me what recording Shabnam Pena's troupe dances to in the clip on the first page of this thread? It's delicious.

I might have already commented here but I'd recommend , if at all possible, taking a workshop with Adnan Sarhan, Nahari (who makes Nahari silk veils), or Eva Cernik. They teach a relationship specific to light silk and breath/meditation. I learned not veil 'tricks' with them but how to handle silk and let it handle me. My favorite exercise is to be blindfolded with silk and play with another veil. When you don't rely on your sense of sight, your body moves different. It's like dancing when no one's watching.

On a funny side note, after not being able to find me for 6 years, Adnan Sarhan was able to track me down last New Year's eve. That's another story but how we found each other was complete magic.

I'm not a huge fan of veil dances that use 'tricks'..although impressive I am much more enthralled when I see someone dance with the silk as if they are intertwined. Never in my life have I seen a better veil dancer than Eva Cernik

Eva Cernik, Oriental Dance Performer, Teacher, & Tour Guide to Turkey & Egypt

Sufi Foundation of America and Adnan Sarhan

Silk veils in beautiful colors and blends.

Nahari is another Goddess with silk