Thread: Deleted

*taken way out of context*

Thanks for looking though and thanks for the help.

*delete*

Oh man.
First, if you are spending money on a costume, you should love it. If you want to be in a troop where everyone dresses the same, that's fine. But if you don't you shouldn't.

Shoes or no shoes depends on the INDIVIDUAL. At Mid Eastern clubs I wear shoes so I don't slip on the hummus, lol. And because everyone there is dressed up. At weddings, it depends on the crowd. Lebanese people seem to like shoes, at Egyptian weddings they love when I'm barefoot. There are no rules. Dance evolves. Old school is great, and I'm old school, but I also believe in evolution while preserving its foundation.

New moves are great because it makes the dance grow. If you have the foundation down right, then you can add some of your own flair.

If you want to attend a workshop, ask the teacher what level the workshop will be: if she say its for EVERYONE, ask if it's a choreography class. If it is, it's risky because if she's not breaking down the moves and only showing the choreography, you may walk away not knowing anything.

There's nothing wrong with sitting out part of the workshop and taking notes. If I get 3 new combos that I will actually USE REGULARLY I consider it worth my $65.

I think you are being smothered by the "bellydance" police. I think sometimes a little less time on bhuz, less time talking semantics with other dancers is best. Rather than let dancers talk about dos and don'ts of dance, why not talk about CREATING? That's the sign of the true artist, creating something. Not all this BS about shoes or no shoes,matching costumes or not (I don't want to be a doo-wop girl and every woman is an indivudual, I think matching costumes are silly because every woman has a different body.Shall we all wear the same jeans too?)
Maybe just have similar colors and that is better.

Sure shoes are an issue, but it shouldn't be enough to stress you out. If you dance well the audience does not care if you have shoes! In fact, at a Syrian party, I was barefoot and everyone talked about a dancer who wore shoes and they couldn't understand it!

Be careful, you sound like how I once felt,and I burnt out for a while until my teacher picked me up and made me stop listening to everyone. The bottom is line: do you dance well and do you love the PROCESS of dance?!
That's all that matters.
xxoxox

You shouldn't limit yourself to one Instructor, no matter how famous or what famous people run in her circle. If you are not learning the moves you want to learn you should move on. Those shoes are called "hermes" shoes but Aruba makes more comfortable pair from what I hear. They're pricey but worth it, again, from what I hear.

Ordering Aruba's Oasis Sandals

Interesting that she said it was low class. I believe it was Raqia Hassan who tore Los Angeles dancers up for not wearing shoes because she felt that we were suggesting that Egypt was a poor country and the dancers couldn't afford shoes.

Here's the deal: many times we out grow our instructors. There is nothing wrong with that unless the instructors take it personally. One of my first teachers was very disparaging about our taking workshops, classes from other teachers, anything which would deviate from her style of dance. And from her getting our money. I was with her for about a year. Having trained as a classical ballerina, I KNEW I should have been progressing faster than I was. It was only when I left that I realized how much I didn't "know" even though I "knew" so much.

Sometimes we have to leave our comfort zones, become the new kid in class again and be willing to make mistakes. It is alright. And if you want to take your dancing to a higher level, it is appropriate.

{{{HUGS}}}

*delete*

*delete*

*delete*

In my opinion, to be a well rounded dancer, you really need to take classes from several teachers. There are so many good teachers where you are located. Each with different styles that you can expand your horizon's with.

*delete*

Your teacher may not care for the advice, but, although she may be a very good dancer, she is not a very good teacher if she tries to convince her students that she is the font of all knowledge and everyone else is a false prophet.

From what you have written, you teacher has some ideas that are considered somewhat out of the norm. While some people argue against high heeled shoes from a skeletal standpoint (they do change your posture), only a very misinformed teacher would insist that dancers should be forbidden from wearing shoes. Many respectable dancers wear/have worn them (e.g., Souheir Zaki), and lots of dancers insist on them for common sense reasons (who wants to accidentally step on broken beads or sharp-edged aluminum coins in their bare feet?).

There is no consensus of naming for moves, or even what constitutes a "right" way to do particular moves. I am sure there are at least a hundred Lebanese-style dancers around the world who could contradict what your teacher says, and their opinions are equally valid. The fact that you are avoiding workshops is the biggest red flag of all. You are depriving yourself of knowledge that you need to grow as a dancer. Collecting information from various perspectives and comparing different viewpoints are critical pieces of the learning process. Of course, some of what you will hear in workshops will deviate from what your teacher says, but it is still important to learn these other things even if you don't use them.

I can't recommend any specific books for your dilemma, but as for videos and workshops--just about anything from any recognized-as-legitimate dancer would be a start in the right direction. Unless your goal is to master only your teacher's approach to the dance and to be a cookie-cutter replica of her, you need to branch out and see what the rest of the dance community is learning and doing.

*delete*

I'm confused. In your post you seem to convey that you are not happy with your instructor because you are not learning what you want to learn, as you state here:

"But, when I discuss, ask, or see other dancers I don't see the same moves I was taught, or am asked "What is that? I never heard of it.". Another topic that has come up is the shoe thing."


So are you or are you not happy in regards to level of instruction you are getting from your current teacher? If you are curious about moves other dancers are learning, then I'm saying that you should broaden your horizons and take more workshops and find another teacher. Your current teacher may be great, but there comes a time when you have to move on in order to grow.

*delete*

Originally Posted by bdaddiction

Where does that say that I was unhappy or that she said this? My English grammar and spelling aren't making any sense to anyone. I guess I should of wrote, "When I discuss belly dance with other dancers, ask other dancers, or see other dancers, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I think I need to go back to college and take English again, screw taking another belly dance class. ..l;,

I'm sorry. I think I am reading into your post too much.

There are very few books, and I'm not sure if the ones that are out there will teach you what you want to know.

What jumps out at me is this: you've been with the SAME instructor for 8 years, and for some reason you don't feel like you should be going to workshops. I'm not sure from your post if it's because your instructor would disapprove or you think the other dancers at the workshop would disapprove - I can tell you that the other dancers at the workshop will not be judging you - if it's your instructor that disapproves of your attending workshops, then I would consider that a red flag.

I'm also not sure what you mean when you say you don't often see the moves that you've been taught - most basic belly dance moves are fairly universal - even if they've been taught to you by another name, or no name, you should recognize movements...can you elaborate more on this?

*delete*

*delete*

I think the consensus here is you need to expand your horizons and take classes or workshops from other instructors. Books aren't going to cut it.

If your teacher is Lebanese she's probably familar with the Lebanese/Egyptian/Arabic form of belly dance which is great. She's probably good at teaching you great shimmies and it's probably all abut the music and not about how to execute some fancy combo. My own teacher was Syrian so I understand what you mean about how what you do is different than anybody else you see out there. Personally, I think that is just fine. It's good to be unique and have a style of your own.

But you mentioned props. If you want to learn things such wings or sword you need to go to a teacher who teaches Turkish or American Caberet style if that is what you want to learn. And if you want to dance like everyone you see on youtube then you need to take from those instructors.

If you haven't learned to do a drum solo after 8 years, you seriously need to broaden your horizons.

My advice to you is to figure out what you want then go in search of it. Take what you like and discard all the rest.

My style is a blend of all my experiences. I learned the rules for each individual style but I break them constantly and do what I like. Belly dance police dont scare me.

Since this is a hobby for you and you're not planning on becoming professional, just have fun with it.

Don't feel bad if you don't know it all. After almost 30 years in this business I'm still learning everday.

Hmmm after rereading your post, I *think* I know what you're trying to say...

It's a feeling I have too sometimes: you start reading on Bhuz and see all those wonderfull dancers with tons of knowledge about stuff you sometimes didn't even know it existed...
Or you look on youtube and see a clip of a dancer and think:"OMG, how does she even do that?"
I know, it can make you feel like such a "dummy".w.:

Sometimes I think: there is soooo much more to learn, how am I ever going to master all that in this lifetime? Maybe it's because I'm just too enthousiastic: I want to know it ALL and preferably all at once lol

You really shouldn't stay away from workshops because you think you're not worthy! I get so much knowledge out of them. But do think about the ones you're going to take. I used to take whatever workshop that came up and left some times feeling like I got nothing out of it (because it just wasn't the right workshop for me at that time)
And if you're struggling in a workshop, you're probably not the only one ;-)

And as for my time here in bhuz, I'm a sponge!
I often just read and read and read (often without really participating) and absorb all the knowledge!!

to my fellow bhuzzers for that!

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Interesting that she said it was low class. I believe it was Raqia Hassan who tore Los Angeles dancers up for not wearing shoes because she felt that we were suggesting that Egypt was a poor country and the dancers couldn't afford shoes.

...And I've eard something similar from Faridy Fahmy (Reda Troupe), but she was saying that dancing barefoot (in her younger days) was considered suggestive (read sexually suggesstive)!.w.:

For me it is a individual choice. I would like to dance barefoot, but since I'm suffering from arthistis the balls of my feet are very sensitive and I need a good support.

And as for my right foot, even after surgery in (1994) my crooked toes are such an uggly site, I prefer not to show it to my public! ..l;,..l;,

Qamar

While I was in the US, I took many workshops from different teachers, and I learned from all of them. My 'dance mom' who was part Syrian encouraged us to go and learn and absorb different styles, different combos and whatnot.

My stumbling block was not really knowing the history or base of belly dance and not being able to differentiate between different styles of folklore, and not really understanding proper costuming for all types of belly dance.

I never really had someone tell me no, no, no... don't wear this or don't wear that for this or that type choreography, you know? I was never hampered by the rigidity that perhaps your dance teacher considers right and wrong. I wore what I liked and people would tell me that I looked pretty, so I was happy.

The last 2 or so years, I've learned so much through my hubby. He's Egyptian and is recognised as a master instructor worldwide. He was trained and has hands on knowledge about oriental dance and egyptian folklore, as well as others.

What he does in workshops and classes is teach a bit of history behind the choreos that he's teaching. He'll tell you why this gesture, or the reason for this type of foot movement. He'll help you with rhythms and music interpretation and so on and so forth. He'll tell you what would *normally* be worn for a certain type of dance, and it's up to each individual dancer to use his knowledge like s/he wants.

With this additional knowledge I now have, I can better understand what I learned in the previous workshops I've taken. I'm also better at knowing how much or how little the teacher might really know about belly dance. It would have been so much better if I had known all of this before, so that I could put everything else into context while I was learning it, but it's good that I have it now.

You can try to learn these things from books, but it would be better to open yourself up to teachers and other dancers that have another view of the dance. I'm sure that a lot of what your teacher is teaching you is correct and all good, but it seems like a part of her teachings may be based just on her opinion. Would you be allowed to spread your wings a little with your current teacher if you want to do something that she considers not right? I'm not saying to leave your teacher, but consider spreading out and taking a class here or there with another instructor for a change.

I travel around a lot with hubby, and I see dancers from all over the world. Of course, there are universal movements and basic similarities in costuming, but there elements that are totally unique to the dancer and would not be considered a right or wrong thing (shoes, for example).

*delete*

*delete*

*delete*

I'm sorry if I have misrepresented the situation. I don't know either you or your teacher personally, and don't know the full circumstances of your relationship. I do know that you wrote that you "wouldn't ever go to a workshop," and the fact that your teacher hasn't been strongly encouraging you to take advantage of studying with other high-quality teachers after eight years of lessons can be indicative of a problem. Is your teacher afraid you'll learn something she doesn't know? That another teacher will contradict or correct her? That you'll pollute your technique by learning something that destroys the integrity of the style she's trying to teach you? Why shouldn't you go to workshops?

Where are you getting the ideas that you'll "be taught something that is considered 'not so,'" or even more insanely, that after eight years of lessons, you won't "even be 'good enough' for the class"? My goodness, that statement right there shows you've never been to a workshop! Unless you are signing up for a very advanced sort of special training for pros or teachers, I would think the average dancer is ready to start going to garden-variety workshops after six months to a year of regular and committed dance study and practice.

At any rate, as I implied in my earlier post, "not so" is in the eye of the beholder. With the exception of things that are obviously vulgar, clumsy, off the beat, or physically painful, anything else is a matter of the teacher's personal experience and preference. For any dancer's thoughts on "don't ever do X," you can point someone else who will say that "X is okay in moderation," or "X is perfectly acceptable whenever you think the music calls for it," or "X an equally valid but different way of doing the move, but I don't do it that way." This is not a codified art form with a clear "right" and "wrong," even in the most rigid of circumstances.

The bottom line is that you are coming to a forum and expressing some concern that sounds like you are feeling stifled or not being challenged enough, which means it's time to pop your head out of the groundhog hole and take a look around. Oh, and the feeling that there's still more to learn than you'll ever have time for never goes away when you have the right attitude. (If you think you've learned it all, you need an ego check!)

*delete*

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Interesting that she said it was low class. I believe it was Raqia Hassan who tore Los Angeles dancers up for not wearing shoes because she felt that we were suggesting that Egypt was a poor country and the dancers couldn't afford shoes.

I remember hearing about that at the time, it was Farida Fahmy, not Raqia Hassan. It seemed like a VERY odd thing to say, since Dina, Fifi, Dandash, and...well, nearly ALL of the famous Egyptian bellydancers who've ever been captured on film appear to be barefoot most of the time.

But then, Farida was never actually a bellydancer, was she? She teaches Reda stuff, not bellydance.

*deleted*

*delete*