Thread: History of the coin scarf?

I always thought we bellydancers wear a hip (coin) scarf just because it enlarges the movements we make with our hips with the coins moving around and making noise (and because it's shiny and pretty . )

But by surfing the net last night (sorry can't remember the site), I read something interesting about this: It said that in the old days, bellydancers used to sew their tips onto their costume and that coin scarfs we know today are originated from that.

Is that true? Is there a story behind why we wear coin scarfs?

The Ouled Nail and the Bedouins did sew their money onto their clothing. It was their bank account. But the question is, were either of these groups "belly dancers?"

As for the modern day coin hip scarves, Morocco has been quoted (and I am not positive that this is true) to have been one of the designers of the ones we wear now. I heard somewhere - and feel free to correct me if you want - that she was talking to Mohammad (the costumer) and mentioned that such a scarf with coins and beads would be a great piece of clothing for belly dancers as it would help to show movement.

And, according to legend, that is how the modern coined and beaded hipscarf was born!

{{{HUGS}}}

Yep, the story goes that on one of Morocco's early tours to to Egypt, the dancers fell on a stash of beaded scarves which they thought would be great for costuming, and it all started there.

http://www.casbahdance.org/MARVELOUSMAHMOUD.htm

So by this reckoning, the coin scarf can be traced back all the way to the mists of 1978.

Aha!

Thanx for sharing :-)

Thanks for that article -- I just taught a class on Medieval-era "belly dance" (not that it was called that, then), and one of the questions that came up was that myth about coin scarves. I refuted it, but it's nice to have another source!

This is a great thread. In fact, all of the folkloric costumes, which try to be authentic, do not have coin hip scarves. And yes, the Bedoins had their "bank accounts" so to speak on their clothes. Also, street dancers would sew the coins that were thrown at them when they danced in the street to show how successful and well liked they were.

When I first started out, coined hip scarves hadn't been thought of. We used shawls or scarves; it's what I still prefer in class so I don't have to yell over them!

Coins on our costumes were something we aspired to! When I found my first coined hip scarf I thought I'd died and gone to hip heaven.

Acording to the History Ch program about the lost Egyptian sex papirus "the egyptain working girls tied them around there hips to show off there hip and wears, just like modern bellydancers".
No, I am not joking. Look it up online! I was sitting there with my husband watching this with a sence of dread and low an behold! They said it! I was so angry! It was a "theory" but they still said it. :-P to that!

Originally Posted by Asim

Thanks for that article -- I just taught a class on Medieval-era "belly dance" (not that it was called that, then), and one of the questions that came up was that myth about coin scarves. I refuted it, but it's nice to have another source!

Oh, I was there! But, for an SCA context, I would expand the question from the Egyptian coin scarf to a coin belt (maybe not quite Cost Less - but something like it) and to a simple string of coins. There was coin jewelry in those days, so it seems like a natural question to wonder about using these decorations around the waist/hips as well. And, if one can't find evidence that these were used, then I would be genuinely curious why.

Lost. Sex. Papyrus?

Yes, it's true. People in ancient Egypt wore heavily encrusted lycra two-pieces with matching anklets and hair bands on a daily basis. When their hairbands fell off, as they always do, they had to marry the person who picked it up, who got to keep the precious Swarovski crystals on it. But the dancer, I mean the normal Egyptian woman, kept all the crystals attached to her skirt and bra.

Invention of both the bra and lycra in ancient times are why Egypt is so wealthy today, though the original art has been lost and the modern bras and lycra are not as fine and amazing as the ancient ones.

I second Zumarrad's initial question and am generally amused by her post. ..g.:

Originally Posted by Ahmber

Acording to the History Ch program about the lost Egyptian sex papirus "the egyptain working girls tied them around there hips to show off there hip and wears, just like modern bellydancers".
No, I am not joking. Look it up online! I was sitting there with my husband watching this with a sence of dread and low an behold! They said it! I was so angry! It was a "theory" but they still said it. :-P to that!

Every time I see a history channel program it makes me nuts. I've never seen one (about anything) that didn't have at least five big, fat, major fantasies. These programs should have a disclaimer at the beginning!

Unfortunately, we can see from the temple wall paintings that Ancient Egyptian women had only ONE breast, so their bras did not translate well into the modern world.

Originally Posted by Candide

Every time I see a history channel program it makes me nuts. I've never seen one (about anything) that didn't have at least five big, fat, major fantasies. These programs should have a disclaimer at the beginning!

I also saw the program. What they were referring to has nothing to do with coin belts but rattle belts. I've been doing months of research on idiophones used in the Old Kingdom and Prehistoric times (the origins of finger cymbals in Egypt). What archeologists have known for over 1oo years is that women used instruments like clappers and rattles to ward off evil spirits/gods during religious and other occasions. The belts had small terra-cotta rattles sewn into them. There are pictures of pre-historic dancer's rattles in Hans Hickman's inventory of Musical Instruments in the Cairo Museum (1949). There are belts much older than that.

One of the talking heads on that program was Lise Manniche, one of the foremost archeologists in the field of plants, perfumes, sex and musical instruments of the ancient Egyptians. She is highly respected even by Zahi Hawwas, Egypt's head of antiquities. Take a look at the program again before dismissing it entirely.

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Take a look at the program again before dismissing it entirely.

I never said that I saw that particular program, merely that I had never seen a History channel program that didn't have glaring errors. I haven't seen that one, but I've seen plenty of doozies in other programs they produce. I normally trust my university's library rather than the History channel. Sorry about the confusion.

Originally Posted by Candide

I never said that I saw that particular program, merely that I had never seen a History channel program that didn't have glaring errors. I haven't seen that one, but I've seen plenty of doozies in other programs they produce. I normally trust my university's library rather than the History channel. Sorry about the confusion.

I agree that the program was constructed, as usual, with hook and sinker structure. But it was about the Turin Papyrus which has been kept quietly hidden away because of it's "Playboy" like illustrations. The 12 positions of Ancient Egyptian brothels. It's a great subject. Lots of VERY LARGE phalli..w.:
I thought it was well done in spite of the commercial break fake cliff hangers.

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I agree that the program was constructed, as usual, with hook and sinker structure. But it was about the Turin Papyrus which has been kept quietly hidden away because of it's "Playboy" like illustrations. The 12 positions of Ancient Egyptian brothels. It's a great subject. Lots of VERY LARGE phalli..w.:
I thought it was well done in spite of the commercial break fake cliff hangers.

Well, like I said, I haven't seen it. I have seen programs on geisha, for example, that take things that Arthur Golden made up over what Liza Dalby wrote in her ethnography, or programs about druids that cite Victorian fantasy. So I haven't bothered with the History Channel in quite some time, but this may be one to check out. I'm planning on taking a course in History of Egypt as part of my ME studies degree as soon as I can get in, but other than that, offerings about Egypt are scarce around here.

I thought was a good show about a lost "playboy" style work. the show flashed a modern Bellydancer and paralleled the look of coins and hip rattle s of the papyrus with the Bellydancer. That's all, it was a fun interesting show but it could have left that part out! ha! Sorry for the thread jacking!

Originally Posted by Ahmber

I thought was a good show about a lost "playboy" style work. the show flashed a modern Bellydancer and paralleled the look of coins and hip rattle s of the papyrus with the Bellydancer. That's all, it was a fun interesting show but it could have left that part out! ha! Sorry for the thread jacking!

Did you recognize the dancer in it? Might be somebody we know!

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Lost. Sex. Papyrus?

Yes, it's true. People in ancient Egypt wore heavily encrusted lycra two-pieces with matching anklets and hair bands on a daily basis. When their hairbands fell off, as they always do, they had to marry the person who picked it up, who got to keep the precious Swarovski crystals on it. But the dancer, I mean the normal Egyptian woman, kept all the crystals attached to her skirt and bra.

Invention of both the bra and lycra in ancient times are why Egypt is so wealthy today, though the original art has been lost and the modern bras and lycra are not as fine and amazing as the ancient ones.

Oh come come Zum,bra and belt sets are not that old

follow this link and you'll see proof that bedlah started in the time of Crusades
https://www.movieposter.com/posters/...n/50/MPW-25475

Gilded Serpent has a recent article relating to this. I hope this url works.

Dancing for Dowries, Part 2: | Belly Dance News & Events

Originally Posted by kahaz

Unfortunately, we can see from the temple wall paintings that Ancient Egyptian women had only ONE breast, so their bras did not translate well into the modern world.

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,

I literally choked on my milk when I read this. Even my husband thought it was hysterical.