Thread: Looking for Khaleegy clips

Hey

This is a question for all those youtube experts . .

I'm looking for nice Khaleegy clips that really express that relaxed funkyness . . . . .e.g. like the way Khaled Mahmoud does it. A lot of the clips I can find are a bit sterile and don't really express the way I feel about the style.

Thanks!

Z

I don't know exactly what you are looking for in khaleegy clips, but these are some of my favorites:

YouTube - Pearls of the Gulf


YouTube - Khadijah dances and interview Khaleegy khaleeji

YouTube - Khaleeji

YouTube - Khaleegy

Funky enough?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsWGFSOK38o]YouTube - Shadiah , Detroit Belly Dancer in Dubai, Khaleegi[/ame]

I put all my favorite clips into my Khaleegy article -- The Khadijah one at the bottom might suit you, it's pretty funky. Also the Roshana Nofret one -- which is linked rather than embedded, so easy to miss...

Bellydance styles - Khaleegy

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gexygQoqA]YouTube - Mohamed Shahins new Khaliji and Shaabi instructional DVD "RAQS ARABIA" !!!![/ame]

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I put all my favorite clips into my Khaleegy article -- The Khadijah one at the bottom might suit you, it's pretty funky. Also the Roshana Nofret one -- which is linked rather than embedded, so easy to miss...

Bellydance styles - Khaleegy

Lauren - I had forgottern about your article, its awesome, actually it may help more than clips . . . . trying to convey the essence of the style to some people.

Z

Originally Posted by zafirah

Lauren - I had forgottern about your article, its awesome, actually it may help more than clips . . . . trying to convey the essence of the style to some people.

Z

YAY!!! So happy to be of use.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej_Tk8LNKmM]YouTube - PolÃ*mnia Garro - Khaliji[/ame]

Oh and, just fyi, this one is UAE style:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75YM5aC-7pc]YouTube - Khaleegy[/ame]

Although I like Roshana's dancing and appreciate the skill behind the movements;;
Sufi whirling as done in this video and Tanoura skirt style lifting of the Thob is questionable in Khaleegi to me...

Not too long ago, I started studying with a dancer from the Gulf, and she says the majority of what Western dancers think of as Khaleeji style is far more frantic and energetic than what is actually done there: big movements, vigorous isolations, neck-snapping hair tossing--all TOO MUCH! The real dance is considerably more small and sedate, even when done at fast tempos. Of course, "small and sedate" looks boring on stage, hence the tendency to want to improve it by jazzing it up. Audiences don't want to look at a dancer stepping around and bobbing her head a little for eight minutes, even if that is more authentic.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

Not too long ago, I started studying with a dancer from the Gulf, and she says the majority of what Western dancers think of as Khaleeji style is far more frantic and energetic than what is actually done there: big movements, vigorous isolations, neck-snapping hair tossing--all TOO MUCH! The real dance is considerably more small and sedate, even when done at fast tempos. Of course, "small and sedate" looks boring on stage, hence the tendency to want to improve it by jazzing it up. Audiences don't want to look at a dancer stepping around and bobbing her head a little for eight minutes, even if that is more authentic.

Spot on...the gulf dances I´ve seen on stage by pro dancers are of course more frantic,covering move space and using more accents than the dance I´ve seen people dance in their homes and in private parties.

The playfulness and relaxed feling dancing with the layered syncopated rythms are seldom seen in stage dancing.

Maybe you haven´t seen these clips;
the kuwaiti with the men dancing is adorable,the iraqi one is from south Iraq(also feature cool dancing)and the brazilian dancer uses two mega hits just jazzing around connecting with the audience-
you might want to skip the mini skirt and turbo hair tossing though;)




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqY_YPtcLJM&feature=PlayList&p=C9682BCDE4B BF78A]YouTube - La Alley Weltelloh[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mn6OgbVGK4&feature=PlayList&p=D8788E8639E 2AECB]YouTube - iraqi song[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-2SI-DdSY]YouTube - Khaliji/khaleeji modern WARDA MARAVILHA 2008.from GULF[/ame]

Makes sense to me. It's like comparing the Solid Gold Dancers or the Fly Girls to what was being done in clubs at that time.. Of course it's bigger, faster, showier -- one is a show, the other is participation.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Makes sense to me. It's like comparing the Solid Gold Dancers or the Fly Girls to what was being done in clubs at that time.. Of course it's bigger, faster, showier -- one is a show, the other is participation.

But you don't need to be unusually well informed to tell the difference between trained dancers on a television show and ordinary people dancing in nightclubs (the latter are three dimensional and life sized, if nothing else...).

I'm not trying to rain on anybody's artistic parade, but when a dancer does Khaleeji, it seems like it is usually presented as a Big Folkloric Deal: "Next, you're in for a real treat because So-And-So is going to be performing a traditional style of women's folk dance from Saudi Arabia..." This is the set up so that the audience isn't sitting there thinking, "This doesn't look like belly dance, and why is she wearing a caftan?" But technically, it isn't accurate. So-And-So is performing a theatricized version of the traditional style, or maybe she is performing a dance loosely based on the traditional style, fused with elements from other styles of Middle Eastern Dance, and adapted for Western audiences. These are subtle distinctions, and I can understand why sometimes corners are cut when dealing with the GP.

However, the over-the-top style is treated as valid folkloric dance in some venues. It's passed on as accurate, when it barely is. In some ways it sort of reminds me of what Morrocco called "shuckin' and jivin' Nubian." It's almost closer to a parody of the folkloric dance than a legitimate representation of it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNJcimMRgUY&feature=PlayList&p=8D6031156BF 87ECF]YouTube - IRAQI MUSIC[/ame]

they start dancing at about 2:00

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brOZL-XeiMQ&feature=related]YouTube - iraqi dance[/ame]

Originally Posted by Chakira

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YouTube - Mohamed Shahins new Khaliji and Shaabi instructional DVD "RAQS ARABIA" !!!!

Thread hijack --does anyone own this video?t looks totally worthwhile, to me.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

But you don't need to be unusually well informed to tell the difference between trained dancers on a television show and ordinary people dancing in nightclubs (the latter are three dimensional and life sized, if nothing else...).

I'm not trying to rain on anybody's artistic parade, but when a dancer does Khaleeji, it seems like it is usually presented as a Big Folkloric Deal: "Next, you're in for a real treat because So-And-So is going to be performing a traditional style of women's folk dance from Saudi Arabia..." This is the set up so that the audience isn't sitting there thinking, "This doesn't look like belly dance, and why is she wearing a caftan?" But technically, it isn't accurate. So-And-So is performing a theatricized version of the traditional style, or maybe she is performing a dance loosely based on the traditional style, fused with elements from other styles of Middle Eastern Dance, and adapted for Western audiences. These are subtle distinctions, and I can understand why sometimes corners are cut when dealing with the GP.

However, the over-the-top style is treated as valid folkloric dance in some venues. It's passed on as accurate, when it barely is. In some ways it sort of reminds me of what Morrocco called "shuckin' and jivin' Nubian." It's almost closer to a parody of the folkloric dance than a legitimate representation of it.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but...isn't that the case with pretty much ALL folkloric dances when they're presented onstage?

Mahmoud Reda did it with everything from Nubian to Hagallah. We do it in the US with ballroom dance for competition/exhibition (vs. how they would actually be done by most people in a recreational ballroom setting). I'm certain that what the Tamboritzens perform is a highly stylized version of all the Eastern European folk dances. I feel sure the folk don't change into sparkly costumes and big hats and start creating elaborate patterns of choreography...

We've talked about this before -- it's the nature of folk dances to be fun to DO, making them fun to WATCH requires a lot of stagecraft. I wouldn't sit still for a staged version of the Hokey Pokey, either, unless you punched it up for me.

I teach my students that this is what we're doing when we perform Khaleegy (and I'll tell them the same if we ever perform a debke choreo). We're not attempting to recreate a social dance, we're performing a choreographed stage dance designed to entertain an audience while giving them a taste of a style. Here on Bhuz, we've often said that's the difference between 'folk dancing' and 'performing folkloric dances.'

Or do you mean something different about the Khaleegy?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Or do you mean something different about the Khaleegy?

If I understand your post, there are two points:

(1) Regarding Mahmoud Reda's fakelorification of the Hagallah, Nubian folkdances, Melaya Leff, etc. I would generate my own response to this, but it's much more fun to refer folks to your Post #14 in the "What makes this 'Arabic Fusion?'" thread:

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Here's the thing -- if an Arab dancer innovates within Arabic dance, then what s/he creates is still Arabic dance. (unless it's clearly fusion, of course, like when Nagwa Fouad did the twist) [...] So when Arabs (or Turks) create new things, it's innovation (or novelty, if only one dancer does it and others don't pick it up).

Non-natives can certainly innovate, but we have to be more careful to make it clear to natives and other dancers that we KNOW that what we've done is not 'authentic', that it's innovation rather than a hopeless display of cluelessness. We also have to make it clear to our audiences, who may never have seen Arabic dancing before, that what they're seeing isn't 'pure.'

In other words, Mahmoud Reda was completely aware of what he was doing, and he was doing it from an intimate knowledge of the culture. He may have been recreating a mood more than demonstrating historical accuracy of movement, but he was coming from a point of personal and ethnic honesty on some level.

(2) My contention with Khaleeji as it is done in the West is that it is "hopeless display of cluelessness" more than "authentic innovation." If a dance is presented in a way that a native would never do it, how can it still be authentic? To use the Debke example (and I am really ticked that YouTube yanked Assi al Hellani's "Dagat Galbi" video because it is a good demonstration of what I wanted to say here), Lebanese people do not gather at normal parties in matching clothes and do lovely, planned dances. The majority of them wear whatever and do the basic step all night long--but one or two folks may get out there and really bust a move. A theatricized Debke is nothing you couldn't see if you happened to stumble upon a village of nattily dressed, well organized folks who happened to be really great dancers.

(Continued)

The Westernized staged Khaleeji is another story. It consists of moves that natives wouldn't do, or at least wouldn't do with that fervor. My teacher talked some about the differences between the Bedouin style of Khaleeji versus the styles you would be more likely to see at house parties and weddings in the more urban areas, and while the Bedouin style is more energetic, you still don't see the same wild hair tossing, high-energy jazz hands, big poppy chest lifts, etc. that Westerners like to do. You just don't. Women dance for hours at these parties. It's not supposed to look like the climax of a zaar ritual, standing up, in a sequined dress, all night. If they actually danced that way, the party would have to end at 10:00 because everybody would be too tired to continue!

I don't want to embarrass anyone, but I was at an event with my teacher some time ago, and a group presented a Khaleeji routine. It was a routine that had received very high compliments as an authentic folkloric presentation, and it was every bit what a dancer would have expected for "Khaleeji Dance," but afterward, my teacher confessed to feeling trapped when they approached her for feedback. [paraphrasing] "They expected me to tell them they'd captured the real thing, and I wanted to tell them it was all wrong."

This is the critical difference. Does a native watch what you are doing and think, "I've never seen that in person, but it was impressive," or "I've never seen that in person because it totally missed the mark"? Maybe we need to treat big, frenetic, enthusiastic, Westernized Khaleeji as a separate form of fusion. "AmKhal" anyone?

Incidentally, has anybody ever seen the "Yapple Dapple," that move where the dancer helicopters her hair in a ponytail over her head, done by a native? When I started dancing, nobody was doing this, and now it seems to be appearing in more and more routines. Obviously my teacher hasn't seen every woman in the Gulf dance and she isn't the be-all-and-end-all of knowledge (although as a native, I trust her above some dancer who learned her Khaleeji from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone...), but she thought this move was utterly crazy. (And before anybody asks, the name gives homage to the old "Jeannie" cartoon about the genie who worked her magic through her ponytail.)

I'm still in total agreement that staged Khaleegy looks very different from party Khaleegy, but most of the staged Khaleegy that I've seen in my area looks similar to the staged Khaleegy I've seen in videos from the gulf.

Like this:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9H3Iu91csc]YouTube - ‫Ø*Ù�Ù„ المعاهد الخاصـة - وينج يا الابرة‬‎[/ame]

Of course, things vary regionally in the US, maybe the Khaleegy in your area is wilder?

Another thing to consider is that we mostly are learning Khaleegy through the Egyptian bellydancers whose teaching we pass down, and I've read many times before that a lot of Gulf residents think the Egyptians get it wrong. The wildest, craziest Khaleegy I've ever seen was done by Faten Salama.

Still, I see your point. I hope no one is teaching their students that the way we perform Khaleegy onstage is a reflection of how it might be danced a party. It's clearly an energized, co-ordinated effort to make Khaleegy entertaining. The same is true for beledi, of course.

Yes, this is partly what I mean I guess but i didn't explain very well. A lot of the clips I see are too over the top and graceless and some are basically bellydance in a thobe (whats up with the legs miles apart in some?!!!!!). I haven't ever seen genuine khaleegy woman in their 'native' habitat but I have seen some people with that more relaxed, fun, subtle style, that was what i was looking for.

I'm not entirely sure what is going on in that clip with the kids (the caption says something about a ceremony at a private school?), but I would expect young girls to dance more energetically than grown women. Young girls, in general, are held to different standards of modesty and propriety than older women (e.g., not having to wear the headscarf).

It took a while to track down the old e-mail from my teacher, but here are the clips she pulled out as examples of real Khaleeji dance.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8KU6B9Cg9U]YouTube - ‫Ø£Ø*مد الجميري .. هلا باللي Ù„Ù�اني‬‎[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVzpUaerCFE]YouTube - Al Asmaranya الاسمرانية / ليلى عبدالعزيز[/ame]

Both of them are very sedate--no "Chiropractor's Delight" scalp aeration, and no "Let's see how hard I have to flap my thobe to pop the sequins off" dress thrashing.

She also sent a clip of the (staged) Bedouin version: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95hAwDZzvY]YouTube - Khaleeji Song - Arabian Gulf Song[/ame]

The hair work is clearly part of the dance, and it does take some momentum to get things swinging, but it seems when I've seen Western dancers doing it, they tend to do it more aggressively with more snap to the neck, in that kind of Angus-Young, it-hurts-just-to-watch-you way. IMHO, they also seem to do it too much. If you look at the dancers in the last clip, they do it for a little bit and then do something else. The whole routine isn't built on hair flying around.

Hmmm... that last clip had more vigorous hair tossing than what I teach. I guess I haven't seen these routines that are built on hair flying around.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Hmmm... that last clip had more vigorous hair tossing than what I teach. I guess I haven't seen these routines that are built on hair flying around.

In my backwater, there are still dancers calling Khaleeji "the hair-tossing dance," hence, the incorrect belief that that's ALL the dance consists of. At any rate, I've been taught that when the hair tossing is done correctly, it comes from an upper body movement, both a slight lean forward and a chest lift, with the head turning side to side and inclining/bobbing to help with the hair flow. It should never be done only by the head and neck because that's dangerously hard on the upper spine.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

In my backwater, there are still dancers calling Khaleeji "the hair-tossing dance," hence, the incorrect belief that that's ALL the dance consists of. At any rate, I've been taught that when the hair tossing is done correctly, it comes from an upper body movement, both a slight lean forward and a chest lift, with the head turning side to side and inclining/bobbing to help with the hair flow. It should never be done only by the head and neck because that's dangerously hard on the upper spine.

I can't speak for Lauren but what makes you think no one else was taught this as well?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

In my backwater, there are still dancers calling Khaleeji "the hair-tossing dance," hence, the incorrect belief that that's ALL the dance consists of. At any rate, I've been taught that when the hair tossing is done correctly, it comes from an upper body movement, both a slight lean forward and a chest lift, with the head turning side to side and inclining/bobbing to help with the hair flow. It should never be done only by the head and neck because that's dangerously hard on the upper spine.

Ahhhh, I see. I think we're having some very different local experiences. I don't see a lot of Khaleegy around my area, but what I see mostly seems reasonably accurate (taking into account that it's been staged for audience enjoyment).

I have come across people online who I suspected had Khaleegy all mixed up with Zar in their minds, though. So I think I know what you're talking about.

I wish I knew more about the different types/styles. There are people here on Bhuz who can tell the differences between Khaleegy from Iraq, Kuwait, UAE, etc. So much to learn...

Here he is :)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tGB4YAvTtE]YouTube - KHALED MAHMOUD in russia 1[/ame]

Originally Posted by rakgirl

I can't speak for Lauren but what makes you think no one else was taught this as well?

I'm sure anyone who's studied under a teacher who was qualified to present the subject is aware of this, but typically the ones who call it the "hair-tossing dance," have not had any (proper) formal education on the subject. They see a video or two, or perhaps they took classes from a teacher who was misinformed. We on Bhuz like to assume that everybody is sensible, aware, and devoted to learning how to do things properly/safely, but that isn't always the case. How many dancers are out there doing "Chiropractor's Delight" versions of backbends and Turkish drops?

Saudi Arabia is still closed off to non-Muslim tourism, and it's been fairly recently that the Emirates have sought to become a destination for Westerners. Many dancers have been to Egypt to see the top names perform, but only a few have been to a private women's party in the Gulf to observe what actually goes on. There is a lot of misinformation about Khaleeji dance, and sometimes quite a time lag on the good information that is out there. It's understandable that there would be dancers doing things differently than they would if they knew better.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I'm sure anyone who's studied under a teacher who was qualified to present the subject is aware of this, but typically the ones who call it the "hair-tossing dance," have not had any (proper) formal education on the subject. They see a video or two, or perhaps they took classes from a teacher who was misinformed. We on Bhuz like to assume that everybody is sensible, aware, and devoted to learning how to do things properly/safely, but that isn't always the case. How many dancers are out there doing "Chiropractor's Delight" versions of backbends and Turkish drops?

Saudi Arabia is still closed off to non-Muslim tourism, and it's been fairly recently that the Emirates have sought to become a destination for Westerners. Many dancers have been to Egypt to see the top names perform, but only a few have been to a private women's party in the Gulf to observe what actually goes on. There is a lot of misinformation about Khaleeji dance, and sometimes quite a time lag on the good information that is out there. It's understandable that there would be dancers doing things differently than they would if they knew better.

You're right. Sorry, i'm a little testy today.,f::

Originally Posted by Khalida

Here he is :)

Do you know the context of this clip? Is it a choreography he developed for and taught to women? Is he co-opting the women's style for himself? Did he perform it as drag? I was under the impression that the men's version of Gulf Dance was distinct from the women's, and men never did the women's style. For the women's style, his technique is very nice, though.

I'd guess he's dancing women's style because that is what he teaches -- assuming this is a demo of a choreo he would teach to women. Since Khaled is not currently living in the Gulf region, he's free of those gender restrictions.

I absolutely LOVE his costume -- literally half-traditional, with a nod to the notion that the thobe isn't really the modern-day costume (but still with one big ole sleeve to play with). Awesome. I want to cut my thobe in half now...

Ditto to what Lauren said. He teaches great workshops on women style Khaleegy, is all I know