Thread: Big names not such a big deal anymore?

Thanks to YouTube, and the wide breadth of video clips out there, Ive come to realize that some of the big names I once thought were so awesome...I don't think as much of anymore (although they still hold a spot in my heart)

I think there is a lot more work to be done, and I mean that in a good way, as in there is lots of room for improvement out there, but at the same time, if my previous idols have dropped down a notch or two, where does that leave me? WAAAAAAAAAAAY at the bottom, I'm afraid.

What do you all think?

Thanks to the internet, I've discovered that there are dancers every bit as good or better than the "big names", who for whatever reason do not promote themselves much, and so don't end up well known outside of their own area.

my 2 cents;

*i* do think before youtube a "name" could promote herself as the "BEST EVERAH!!" & only people in her area would know for sure & some as it turned out aren't THAT good. i think in some cases they aren't bad just dated.

yes there are "gems" in many communities that we would not know about without youtube.

BUT i will say both cab & trib are going into an era where what is being defined as "good" may a.depend more on fitness, b. promotion (how many friends you have on tribe) & very,very last dance ability. as for dance ability there is becoming a wider chasm between old school bd & newer more athletic dancers. again fitness.

for example when i did tribal years ago it tended to be older, heavier women. i knew cabs who retired to trib. with rachel brice & her unreal level of fitness trib is now defined by six pack abs.

a trend i find worrisome is communities setting up echo chamber situations where they decide they are "names" & are staying in their communities. i think this is the attendance problem at large events. rather than go BE the fan people are staying at home & being the star.

i actually like to have dancers to look up to & sit back & go "wow" over.

I agree...I think it just takes a lot more now, IMO to impress me (more than athleticism) I do require the whole package and then some, and most of the dancers who impress me are not young.

Originally Posted by tattood1

my 2 cents;
i actually like to have dancers to look up to & sit back & go "wow" over.

Morocco told the story of being a young dancer and seeing soemne perform in a night club and thinking she was FANTASTIC. Morocco spent a year working and learning and practicing because she wanted to dance like the dancer she had see.

Morocco went back to see her inspiration and was less then impressed. She asked her teacher, when did the dancer get so bad? the response was, she was always bad, you jus tknow better.

{{{{HUGS}}}

This is so true. Dancers I saw online when I was first learning just dropped my jaw, and now, they're kind of ho hum. Dull. But they're successful, because the GP doesn't know better, and some of these dancers are highly skillful at promotion and they look fabulous. I didn't know better until I gained experience and exposure to the dance.

But I find some of my dance idols online. I live in Brisbane, Australia - not a lot of big names come passing through, and I'm a uni student, so I can't afford to travel yet. YouTube gives me the chance to watch Fifi and Orit - dancers I would never, ever see otherwise.

I think it's really great that we have YouTube and the ability to see dozens of dancers we might not ever get to see at all, but it's important to remember that with video, we do lose a lot, most importantly most of the stage presence and charisma that a dancer has, and also three-dimensionality. As much as I love videos, I find that a dancer who bores me after 30 seconds on a YouTube video often keeps me enthralled and on the edge of my seat in a live performance. So to some extent, I think that the abundance of video clips may dull our senses a bit, because it dulls down the performance significantly. There are intangibles that just don't come across on film. Interestingly, some performers who aren't that exciting onstage translate to film extremely well, and some who are amazing in person don't translate well to film. And sometimes it's a matter of film quality, setting, etc.

But also, I agree that as one becomes more personally accomplished, the "WOW" factor in watching dance performances decreases, and it takes more to be wowed.

Also, I think that watching dozens and dozens of dancers in itself can decrease the WOW factor over time. I liken it to doing tastings of ice creams, pastries, chocolates, which I often have to do for my business. Even though it all tastes amazing at the start of a tasting session, after awhile, nothing tastes that great anymore.

I've also noticed that if I see too much of a favorite dancer in too short a span of time, I start to become bored or desensitized to that dancer's particular style. Sometimes it's best to take a bit of a break, and then when I watch that dancer with "fresh eyes", I can be wowed again.

I find that the greatest thing about having so many clips available is that at least I can see enough to get ideas of who I would like to see perform live, because usually the live performance FAR exceeds what I saw on the video.

yeah but also the opposite can happen. i was never very impressed with Dina from the You Tube clips I saw. I appreciated her emotion but i thought her technique sucked. Well when I saw her in Cairo I was so moved, I almost cried. I thought she had great technique, emotion, musicality, the whole package. Maybe it was the excitement about the experience with a live band and all.
But I do agree in fact I can't believe some of the dancers that I favorited on YouTube early on. Now I wouldn't even want to watch them.

I think Lilladancer said a lot of what I'm thinking, also Sumaya you as a dancer are no doubt getting better and the moves which once wowed you, you can now do well yourself.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

yeah but also the opposite can happen. i was never very impressed with Dina from the You Tube clips I saw. I appreciated her emotion but i thought her technique sucked. Well when I saw her in Cairo I was so moved, I almost cried. I thought she had great technique, emotion, musicality, the whole package. Maybe it was the excitement about the experience with a live band and all.
But I do agree in fact I can't believe some of the dancers that I favorited on YouTube early on. Now I wouldn't even want to watch them.

I had exactly the same experience with Dina! I think you have to see her live to "get it." And it's because of the expression and emotional content of her performance, which you can't see on video.

My hubby got to see her live this summer and he was as nuts about her as I am. He sees a lot of dancers -- one of those side benefits of being married to one -- but the ones he likes best are the ones that have feeling, expression, and musicality. Me too.

Feeling, expression, musicality do not come through on video. One of the reasons I hate it. I believe in seeing dance live.
I've been in the dance world (not just bd) and involved in the dance world for years now,
and people whose shows I've seen on video, and then live - absolutely no comparison.
We had this discussion I believe when we had trolls on board about temptation of bd.
The trolls were basically saying, if you don't have a dvd of your performances, you are no body.....
I just had to laugh.
One stunning Example: there is a flamenco troupe from Jerez that came to colorado two years back, saw a clip of them on video, not impressed, (even though I knew video doesn't show anything), saw them live, and was gobsmacked.
I cried. They were tremendous.
You tube, video, what have you does not show emotion, how a dancer engages the audience, etc.
Basically, I hate performance videos of any dance.

Originally Posted by Lilladancer

I think it's really great that we have YouTube and the ability to see dozens of dancers we might not ever get to see at all, but it's important to remember that with video, we do lose a lot, most importantly most of the stage presence and charisma that a dancer has, and also three-dimensionality. As much as I love videos, I find that a dancer who bores me after 30 seconds on a YouTube video often keeps me enthralled and on the edge of my seat in a live performance. So to some extent, I think that the abundance of video clips may dull our senses a bit, because it dulls down the performance significantly. There are intangibles that just don't come across on film. Interestingly, some performers who aren't that exciting onstage translate to film extremely well, and some who are amazing in person don't translate well to film. And sometimes it's a matter of film quality, setting, etc.

I totally agree!

~~Kimahri
who MUST been seen live to be truly appreciated

I agree that you lose a lot in going digital, although some of the greats manage to convey some of that musicality and emotion, so I can't imagine what they would be like live.

When you're looking for costuming ideas or at technical skills, videos can be helpful, I've found. It's not a shadow on a live instructor or a performance, but they can assist on technique. Sometimes.

Yep... I too, have found myself less impressed with some of the big names. They're still good, but I've both gotten better myself and have probably become desensitized to seeing the same dancers all the time.

YouTube IS great. There are some fabulous up and coming dancers out there!!! Not to mention many I've never heard of, but who are fantabulous! ;-)

I don't have much to add here other than I agree with what most of you have posted. How many times have you watched a music video and been really impressed with a singer or band, for example, then heard them perform live and were let down? Not all artists benefit from electronic mediums (i.e. YouTube, T.V., movies, etc.) while others probably wouldn't be successful at all without the magic of technology. I think some dancers look amazing on video but may seem less engaging live without all the special effects. More often than not, however, talented performers who can keep their audience at the edge of their seats in a live setting cannot make the same type of connection via a digital medium. Some actors are great on T.V. but horrid in movies while others are best on stage. I think it does take talent to be a success in any medium and perhaps genius to be amazing across all mediums.

Originally Posted by Lilladancer

I think it's really great that we have YouTube and the ability to see dozens of dancers we might not ever get to see at all, but it's important to remember that with video, we do lose a lot, most importantly most of the stage presence and charisma that a dancer has, and also three-dimensionality.

Totally agree. What comes over best on video are the bits that (for me) are the least important or peripheral to the dance genre.

Also, you can pick your most video friendly performance - which may have only been a oncer. The "names" need to be able to perform a full show night after night.

Yes, youtube is a fine thing (and sometimes very funny). But if I really want to rate somebody, I have to see him or her live. Cameras can´t capture the charisma and the vibes.

Greets

Zarka

Some dancers get a lucky break, they are in the right place at the right time.There's bound be good quality dancers flogging away getting nowhere, dancers who have to take a break and can't get back in the race. There isn't a lot of room at the top .
It's like X factor isn't it? Loads of deluded sh*te then suddenly you hear a voice that brings a lump to your throat and it's Mary from Wolverhampton who spent her life serving in a butty shop.
I'm not sure that You Tube in a great auditioning chance as who can be bothered to trawl through all the ..ahem...?
Mind you Reyhan ...I'm so glad I saw you!

Lizajik, what is a butty shop?

butty is like a sandwich

I think youtube has been almost like a great equalizer.

i agree, there is no substitute for seeing bd live. or any other performance art for that matter.

however, i am really glad youtube has bd. it provides a great mini-break and spirit lifter when i am slogging away at my desk :)

and yes, some of the dancers in jeans and a hip scarf have more talent and charisma than some very high production value videos. you can't hide raw talent, even behind a cheap webcam.

i'm happy that youtube provides a platform for all dancers to put their performances on show.

i also agree that as we mature as dancers, our taste in what is considered outstanding does change.

Originally Posted by Lilladancer

I liken it to doing tastings of ice creams, pastries, chocolates, which I often have to do for my business. Even though it all tastes amazing at the start of a tasting session, after awhile, nothing tastes that great anymore.

Uhhh, can i have your job? ..g.:

See, I would never have guessed that in a million years. I was thinking a butty shop was where they sold, uh.... panties?

Regards
Priscilla

Originally Posted by lotus

butty is like a sandwich

Originally Posted by stardancer

Uhhh, can i have your job? ..g.:

Uhh... yeah, as long as you take the extra 5 to 10 lbs. of weight I have to fight all the time now that I have it...

Originally Posted by jessedan

See, I would never have guessed that in a million years. I was thinking a butty shop was where they sold, uh.... panties?

Regards
Priscilla

Nah....... knickers would be sold in a bumshop

Butty recipe aka thanks to the Earl of Sandwich aka sarnie in Liverpool
Get 2 pieces of bread
slap on the butter (there's the clue!) and
insert choice of filling from connie -onnie and hundreds and thousands or sugar to smoked salmon...sorted!

awaits further questions from assorted clueless trans atlantic personages..l;,

mmmm. butter. one of my favorite things.

I grew up eating butter in my sandwiches (an english woman from our congrgation used to babysit me). Butter on a peanut butter sandwich, I loved. Although she used make another version that also involved bananas and honey. I didn't like that because it was too sticky and sweet.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Nah....... knickers would be sold in a bumshop

Butty recipe aka thanks to the Earl of Sandwich aka sarnie in Liverpool
Get 2 pieces of bread
slap on the butter (there's the clue!) and
insert choice of filling from connie -onnie and hundreds and thousands or sugar to smoked salmon...sorted!

awaits further questions from assorted clueless trans atlantic personages..l;,

Oh yeah -- the only fillings I recognized were sugar and salmon. Absolutely clueless as to the rest . . . . :Awhatchutalkingabou

Originally Posted by lotus

mmmm. butter. one of my favorite things.

I grew up eating butter in my sandwiches (an english woman from our congrgation used to babysit me). Butter on a peanut butter sandwich, I loved. Although she used make another version that also involved bananas and honey. I didn't like that because it was too sticky and sweet.

My mother-in-law makes cucumber sandwiches which involve butter (and english cucumbers, of course). I haven't tried them yet...

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

My mother-in-law makes cucumber sandwiches which involve butter (and english cucumbers, of course). I haven't tried them yet...

I grew up making bread/butter and ***** (insert just about anything here) sandwiches. :-) We did cucumbers, but we also did pickles (oddly enough -- bread and butter pickles..g.: ). My favorite was bread/butter and white radishes (if you've never had them -- they're long, not round, and hot). Gee, I'd almost forgotten those . . . .