Thread: Seeking Opinions

Hi all,

So you see a belly dancer at a show or a restaurant. She's dancing traditional Eyptian folk dance to some rustic, country-ish music that consists mostly of a few tablas and a mizmar. Maybe a saidi minus the cane. She's wearing ATS costuming. Big skirt tucked artistically in a kuchi decorated belt, maybe a coat, or a coin bra and choli. What would you call that? Would this be tribal style because of the costuming even though the music and movements are traditional?

Thats basically me in a nutshell. I love American style tribal costuming. Even though I dance partly in an Gypsy Caravan trained group, most of my soloing is danced as I described above. I'm just curious. I'm not much into bling costumes or cabaret costuming. I love folky, gypsy stuff. Does dancing in that sort of costuming take away from a dance thats not specifically ATS?

As belly dancers, I'm wondering what you think about that.

Thanks :)
Ally

I love ATS, and I totally hear you on the costuming, it is flattering, fun and fabulous. I know what you're talking about, and I sympathize.

But, I have to say - no, the choice you describe is not a very good one, and as an educated audience member, chances are that it may take away from the performance for me. As a dancer I feel an obligation to make things "work" in a performance. I.e., I try to match dancing, costume and music for a coherent expression. I try to avoid a strict ATS costume for solo dancing, and I would especially try to avoid it for a saidi dance. Now, that said, there is a solution, and a very good one. I believe that tweaking things a wee bit to follow the good old Vintage Oriental/American Cabaret dance tradition, you will find a great path with lots of choices to express your dance persona. And, hey, given that the ATS costume is really based on the American Cabaret costuming found in the Bay area way back when, there's a lineage there.

Obligatory comment - the term "gypsy" used to describe the big skirt esthetic is not the best choice. Many consider that term offensive to the Roma people, and it is good practice to be mindful in avoiding it.

ETA - look at my little picture - it is not an ATS costume, but it still captures a lot of the esthetic. The coin bra/belt is Vintage Oriental, and I just added a bit of Akai Silk.

Originally Posted by AllyisLuma

She's dancing traditional Eyptian folk dance to some rustic, country-ish music that consists mostly of a few tablas and a mizmar. Maybe a saidi minus the cane.

What traditional Egyptian folk dance is she doing?

Or do you mean to say dancing "folk-like" -- basic ATS or Jamila Salimpour method? Because I think you should clarify -- there isn't much that's "traditional" about ATS or Salimpour style, other than it's a recent American tradition for dancers to perform.

Also - what's the ethnicity of the restaurant? I think you can get away with a lot more variety at a Greek restaurant than you can an actual Egyptian or Iraqi restaurant.

BTW - Saidi is a music and dance style that is separate from cane. You can dance Saidi all day long without ever picking up a cane.

She's wearing ATS costuming. Big skirt tucked artistically in a kuchi decorated belt, maybe a coat, or a coin bra and choli. What would you call that?

Rennaisance Fair style? SCA style?
I don't think personally I would like to see that costuming style for a restaurant. I know it would certainly make me wonder about the dancer, and I don't think for the GP it's really as dynamic as something like what Steffi recommended. Remember the coat and Ottoman look is very ATS but also very very quasi "historical" in feel. I'd wonder if you just stepped off the historical re-enactor's camp or something.

Would this be tribal style because of the costuming even though the music and movements are traditional?

Traditional to what? ATS? If it's "traditional" ATS, then I guess it's solo ATS, which is sort of an oxymoron. Why not just consider it Salimpour style? That's finally what I gave in and labeled our "folk"-esque Bal-Anat inspired pieces.

If you are actually doing ethnic dance, I would costume appropriately. Gallibiya with hip sash. But somehow I don't think that's actually what you're doing, is it?

Does dancing in that sort of costuming take away from a dance thats not specifically ATS?

I'm not an ATS dancer, but I do personally think you set up the expectation -- for dancers -- that if you wear the outfit, you're doing the dance. I would find it just as bizarre if you came out wearing a gallibiya and started popping and locking or breaking out in a Sharon Kihara style improv.

Steffi's right -- look to the retro "tribal before it was Tribal" costuming to see how you can look less obviously ATS. To me, that Ottoman coat just SCREAMS old-style ATS. Coins are good, the little underbust vest is adorable, pantaloons with or without a split panel overskirt -- all I think would track less ATS and more fusion or old-school Salimpour look.

PS - I love this style too -- give me coins, finger cymbals, and the underbust vest any day! :)

Oh boy. This might sound judgmental, but since you asked I assume you want the truth.

I would think 'Oh, that poor girl, she's kinda clueless. I wonder if her teacher was clueless and just never taught her much, or if she's they type who just doesn't listen? Either way, it's a shame she's out here in a professional environment, she's clearly not ready.'

THEN, I'd just watch your dancing with the intention of enjoying myself. And if you were really good, I'd be impressed -- but I'd still feel sad for you, because I'd still perceive you as an uneducated dancer trying to break into the pro circuit.

Originally Posted by aziyade

you set up the expectation -- for dancers -- that if you wear the outfit, you're doing the dance.

I'm sure this sounds really restrictive -- what about freedom and creativity, right? But to experienced dancers, or ME folk, it's as surprising as seeing a group come out in hip hop clothing... and square dance. (and if this show were being performed by non-Americans, I'd think they were just kinda clueless.)

Or a group of dancers in grass skirts and Tahitian headdresses... who polka.

Tribal style dance is connected to Egyptian dance by the narrowest thread imaginable -- one woman in Northern California in the 1960s (as I currently understand the connection). They're not close enough to mix and match.

It's not creative when someone wears a costume that comes from a different time, different place than their music or dance style. It's just.. confusing.

that Ottoman coat just SCREAMS old-style ATS

Not to me.... it just says nice folkloric Ottoman style coat.

To add to the pandemonium: An Ottoman coat to me says SCA ;-) It makes me homesick for Pennsic.

I love those coats, and wear a cotton entari made from the Folkwear pattern mundanely because it is comfy and looks great. But, a serious Ottoman coat is not too suitable for old-school ATS because it covers up a lot of the body (getting in the way of cues), and neither for restaurant work. However, with a bit of creativity, a semi-sheer chemise-like garment that is more reminiscent of an orientalist painting could probably be worked into a Vintage Oriental costume, similar to a dress.

Originally Posted by steffib

To add to the pandemonium: An Ottoman coat to me says SCA ;-) It makes me homesick for Pennsic.

I love those coats, and wear a cotton entari made from the Folkwear pattern mundanely because it is comfy and looks great. But, a serious Ottoman coat is not too suitable for old-school ATS because it covers up a lot of the body (getting in the way of cues), and neither for restaurant work. However, with a bit of creativity, a semi-sheer chemise-like garment that is more reminiscent of an orientalist painting could probably be worked into a Vintage Oriental costume, similar to a dress.

Yeah -- I think I misheard the scream. It really is SCA rather than ATS.

Hey -- check out the cover of Deanna's book -- I love the undershirt:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Belly-Dancer-DeAnna-Cameron/dp/0425227782/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252686556&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The Belly Dancer (9780425227787): DeAnna Cameron: Books[/ame]


BTW -- I don't mean to sound judgemental or restrictive!!!
But, you know, you asked ...

:)

Wow, thanks guys. That is really insightful. I'm not fond of oriental costuming at all, really except for the non-bling stuff. I don't like sparklies. I like ATS inspired costuming. Old coins and pieces of jewelry.. For the record, I like Bedouin costuming and the Ghwazee-inspired costuming and stuff like that to.

By traditional folk dance I mean saidi, beladi..the things that most of us know. I say minus the cane to give an mental image of ATS-esque costuming without a cane.

http://www.joyofbellydancing.com/images/turkishobl.bmp <-- Totally my type of stuff right here.

I dance to stuff like Helm, 3Spell..stuff thats very basic in sound in terms of instrumentation. Just drums or an oud or two, the occasional mizmar thrown in. Do you get me? I try to keep as authentic as possible, I don't do ATS combos that I have learned when dancing solo. If I was going to compare my dancing to anybody well known it would be members of Hahbi Ru even though I'm not nearly as good.

Saying putting on a Tahitian dance ensemble and doing the Polka puts my concern in greater retrospect. LOL, I think that would be very entertaining my German family would be giving me wtf looks.

Steffi - I love your costume on your picture. That is way more my style than the "bling" stuff and your choli skirt set is beautiful. I just love Akai. I got double veils coming to me, I'm so excited.

I'm bad at articulation but I'm trying to say if I'm doing non-ATS dancing to traditional sounding music, but my costuming is more comparable to vintage styles, older styles, or ATS styles (like a matching coin bedlah and a big skirt) and not the shiny, sparkly-bling stuff are people going to chalk me off as a tribal dancer because I really am not. I love dancing ATS with my group, I love watching tribal fusion dancers do their thing with hip hop and jazz stuff thrown in there but..lol, where do I fit in?

Thank you ladies, you're really helping me out here.

PS: By oriental costuming I mean the modern oriental stuff out there today. Topaki, Bellas, Pharonics, Joharas..

Oooh, that in a different color, maybe a slightly iridescent silk with a wee bit of stretch or a nice silk chiffon, could be fabulous for a Vintage Oriental performance. Great pick! In my head, there is old-school dancing, with George Abdo, or maybe John B. music.

OMG! The book cover! Totally a way that I dress for dance.

Try looking at Ansuya's costumes for some ideas. I've heard her costuming described as 70's San Francisco style.

I have a similar dilemma. I prefer to dance vintage oriental but the costuming is unkind to the middle-aged and fat. So I'm also trying to find alternatives with a little more coverage but the same feeling.

Co ordinated body stockings rule!

Originally Posted by catwomyn

Try looking at Ansuya's costumes for some ideas. I've heard her costuming described as 70's San Francisco style.

I have a similar dilemma. I prefer to dance vintage oriental but the costuming is unkind to the middle-aged and fat. So I'm also trying to find alternatives with a little more coverage but the same feeling.

Because of her mommy, I bet. :)

Ansuya's studio is in my town actually and I'm signing up for her mom's classes. I do love her costuming. She's very cabaret but she's also really into the bling. I've always loved her mix of hip scarves and bras with her bollywood nick-nacks. I just can't do bling. I think, as a plus size girl, I look better with more spice and less flash.

Originally Posted by anala

Co ordinated body stockings rule!

Amen. Where would I be without my Sugar Petals?

Originally Posted by AllyisLuma

I dance to stuff like Helm, 3Spell..stuff thats very basic in sound in terms of instrumentation. Just drums or an oud or two, the occasional mizmar thrown in. Do you get me? I try to keep as authentic as possible, I don't do ATS combos that I have learned when dancing solo. If I was going to compare my dancing to anybody well known it would be members of Hahbi Ru even though I'm not nearly as good.

My 2 cents: Helm and 3Spell are bands whose music has elements of tradition, and overall very much invoke a very ancient, traditional *feeling*, in an orientalist kind of way. I don't mean that in a negative way at all, these bands are just very much American bands bringing a distinctively west coast American cultural element to their music. To me their music would be something I could see ATS dancers using.

I like 3spell and a couple of their pieces are in my noodling queue (list of music I may perform to sometime in the somewhat near future), and I have often wondered what kind of costume would be appropriate, and to be honest I just don't know. Possibly a coin set and skirt, but worn and accessorized in a way that didn't look ATS (since I wouldn't be doing ATS).

Helm does play alot of traditional folkloric songs, and they don't take extreme stylistic liberties, but importantly, they also play very modern songs (as in 20th century well-known Egyptian composers) in a style that invokes an ancient, folkloric feel, but in such cases, that feeling is a facade. Helm is much more rooted in folkloric music, but there is also very much a west coast American cultural element to their music.

So what do you do with this music? I really don't know.

Sorry, not the definitive answer you wanted.

I also suspect some people who have posted in this thread like Lauren thought that when you said traditional music, that you meant authentic folk music like Metkaal Kenawe (and I wouldn't place Helm or 3spell in that category).

Another thought:

If what you like in music is the feel and sound of a small musical ensemble, well, you can get that in different genres of music. For example, the album entitled "Cry to the Moon" produced by Serpentine is traditional and modern Egyptian music appropriate for belly dance, played by a small ensemble.

Shifting the topic slightly from costume to music, I think Sedonia is on to something here. Calling 3Spell "authentic" is probably not the best characterization of their music. (I am well aware that the musicians are very well-trained, this is in no way a critique of the music.) To me, 3Spell's CD is very much fusion, well-done fusion, but authentic (as in authentic bellydance music) - not really. The CD has, e.g., Daglar Daglar, a very fun 60/70s psychedelic pop song from Turkey - I am always a bit puzzled when I hear it.

And, I am inclined to say similar things about Helm - terrific and very knowledgeable musicians, but - authentic? Dunno, that to me does not do justice to their excellent work. Take, e.g., Nihavent Oyun Havasi - their version is yummy, I love it; but to my ears, this is clearly an American interpretation. The musicians brought their own taste, identity and expertise, which is clearly reflected in the recording. They don't sound like Turks.

Now, one can of course also discuss what exactly we mean by authentic, and chances are that esp. in the context of bellydance, everybody will define that slightly different. Personally, I like the comment of Carolena that the ATS costume is not authentic to any specific region, time-period or ethnic group, but that she feels it is authentic to ATS.

Originally Posted by ssipes

I also suspect some people who have posted in this thread like Lauren thought that when you said traditional music, that you meant authentic folk music like Metkaal Kenawe (and I wouldn't place Helm or 3spell in that category).

Yes, you're right, I misunderstood the word 'traditional' So you're really dancing in modern costuming to modern music, but prefer both to have that heavy feeling of being from another time and place. It's a fantasy recreation of the Mysterious and Ancient Mystical East, rather than a factual depiction of a real time or place. Am I correct? (though your dance movement vocabulary is drawing heavily from a traditional Egyptian basis)


Then, what you're describing sounds like a Renn Faire performance to me. Or something one might see at Pennsic or SCA.

Thinking about this some more...

Allyisluma, I think that your situation is not unique, and perhaps stems from being in an early stage of development as a dancer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you've been dancing long enough to know you are really into in, and at least decently good at it, and now you are at a place where you are waiting for your stylistic preferences as an artist to "gel" so to speak. I don't mean this in a negative way at all, in fact it is a very exciting place to be, like you are at the crossroads of 50 amazing paths to follow and you get to take your choice of them.

Often new dancers are so excited by many different elements of dance that they want to mix those any way they want. Almost everyone here went through that stage (I did), so if/when we speak out against such it is a lesson learned from experience.

I would propose that eventually you will want to decide what kind of dance you want to focus on -- fusion, American caberet, Egyptian, Turkish, ATS or whatever, and then music and costuming choices become much clearer and less confusing.

At this point, the costume is not all about you and what you like, but becomes what you like within the parameters allowed of what you are presenting as an artist.

Although my perspective is from someone mostly focused on traditional Egyptian belly dance, this process would not be limited to such. I think that fusion dance is also best presented with a costume that is consistent with the overall artistic message that the dancer is trying to convey, and not merely a reflection of what the dancer likes to wear.

In an extreme form, and in inappropriate venues, just doing what one likes becomes theatrical masturbation. (not saying this applies to you at all, but I see it more often than I care to).

You say your dance is mostly traditional. I would say, traditional to where and when? Once you have answered that question, it will be easy to identify what the costuming parameters are and what the music parameters are. Then your task as an artist is to find costuming you like within those parameters.

Originally Posted by ssipes

My 2 cents: Helm and 3Spell are bands whose music has elements of tradition, and overall very much invoke a very ancient, traditional *feeling*, in an orientalist kind of way. I don't mean that in a negative way at all, these bands are just very much American bands bringing a distinctively west coast American cultural element to their music. To me their music would be something I could see ATS dancers using.

I like 3spell and a couple of their pieces are in my noodling queue (list of music I may perform to sometime in the somewhat near future), and I have often wondered what kind of costume would be appropriate, and to be honest I just don't know. Possibly a coin set and skirt, but worn and accessorized in a way that didn't look ATS (since I wouldn't be doing ATS).

Helm does play alot of traditional folkloric songs, and they don't take extreme stylistic liberties, but importantly, they also play very modern songs (as in 20th century well-known Egyptian composers) in a style that invokes an ancient, folkloric feel, but in such cases, that feeling is a facade. Helm is much more rooted in folkloric music, but there is also very much a west coast American cultural element to their music.

So what do you do with this music? I really don't know.

Sorry, not the definitive answer you wanted.

I also suspect some people who have posted in this thread like Lauren thought that when you said traditional music, that you meant authentic folk music like Metkaal Kenawe (and I wouldn't place Helm or 3spell in that category).

You're right. I love the sound of Helm for their saidi beats, of 3Spell with their chiftitellis. I love Djinn's 9/8's and 4/4's, I love Pangia. These are all modern bands but have that have songs that have "ancient" feelings to them. That is what I am trying to say about the music. I love Metkaal Kenawe to and all classic ensemble music I can get my hands on. I have one album called "dances of the desert" or something like that that has terrific compositions/arrangements of music to a few tablas, mizmars, vocals, and riqqs. I love Solace and I love Light Rain. I'm hugely into progressive beladi music and tabla music. I'm not a fan of pop music, club music, or stuff like that. Since I like this kind of music, I like my costuming to reflect this kind of music but I don't want to come off as tribal if I'm wearing a coat and a shawl with a puffy pair of pantaloons or a big skirt and a coin bedlah..you know? Its honestly been a challenge for me to correctly interpret costuming because I love all my ATS gear and can't really do the bling stuff. Every one has been so helpful.

Originally Posted by ssipes

Thinking about this some more...

Allyisluma, I think that your situation is not unique, and perhaps stems from being in an early stage of development as a dancer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you've been dancing long enough to know you are really into in, and at least decently good at it, and now you are at a place where you are waiting for your stylistic preferences as an artist to "gel" so to speak. I don't mean this in a negative way at all, in fact it is a very exciting place to be, like you are at the crossroads of 50 amazing paths to follow and you get to take your choice of them.

Often new dancers are so excited by many different elements of dance that they want to mix those any way they want. Almost everyone here went through that stage (I did), so if/when we speak out against such it is a lesson learned from experience.

I would propose that eventually you will want to decide what kind of dance you want to focus on -- fusion, American caberet, Egyptian, Turkish, ATS or whatever, and then music and costuming choices become much clearer and less confusing.

At this point, the costume is not all about you and what you like, but becomes what you like within the parameters allowed of what you are presenting as an artist.

Although my perspective is from someone mostly focused on traditional Egyptian belly dance, this process would not be limited to such. I think that fusion dance is also best presented with a costume that is consistent with the overall artistic message that the dancer is trying to convey, and not merely a reflection of what the dancer likes to wear.

In an extreme form, and in inappropriate venues, just doing what one likes becomes theatrical masturbation. (not saying this applies to you at all, but I see it more often than I care to).

You say your dance is mostly traditional. I would say, traditional to where and when? Once you have answered that question, it will be easy to identify what the costuming parameters are and what the music parameters are. Then your task as an artist is to find costuming you like within those parameters.

Wow. I've never thought about it like that in this context and you are so dead on with this. I have only recently began soloing, been taking lessons for 3 years now and when I'm asked to perform or if I sign up somewhere, that "ancient" visualization look and sound is what I'm always conjuring up in my imagination.

When you say it like that, that really makes me think about it.

All you ladies have been so helpful. I love BHuzz. :D

Originally Posted by ssipes

Another thought:

If what you like in music is the feel and sound of a small musical ensemble, well, you can get that in different genres of music. For example, the album entitled "Cry to the Moon" produced by Serpentine is traditional and modern Egyptian music appropriate for belly dance, played by a small ensemble.

I just got this and I love it. Thanks!

AllyisLuma, I love how open you are. I was so afraid of offending you with my post -- I've seen so many people ask for advice and then get very bristly and offended. You're just taking it all in. You must be a really amazing person.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

AllyisLuma, I love how open you are. I was so afraid of offending you with my post -- I've seen so many people ask for advice and then get very bristly and offended. You're just taking it all in. You must be a really amazing person.

Aw. Thanks. :)

What you said mattered a lot to me. I would never want someone to think ill of my teacher because my costuming was all wrong.

And people have been PMing me examples of folkloric, non-bling costume pictures PM that not ATS specific which is making me want to go to the fabric store now. ..l;,

Next costume! I'm making a bra and belt set out of coins with dismantled/retired coin belts and hip scarves and chain from the craft store for a belly drape with a big, green 25 yard skirt that has a matching tie-front choli for a 9/8 dance I'm choreographing. No kuchi, no banjara, no cowie shells and hair falls. No awesome head scarves and hair things. This would be okay?

Originally Posted by AllyisLuma

Aw. Thanks. :)

What you said mattered a lot to me. I would never want someone to think ill of my teacher because my costuming was all wrong.

On behalf of all teachers, we really wish there were more students like you in our lives!

Originally Posted by AllyisLuma

Next costume! I'm making a bra and belt set out of coins with dismantled/retired coin belts and hip scarves and chain from the craft store for a belly drape with a big, green 25 yard skirt that has a matching tie-front choli for a 9/8 dance I'm choreographing. No kuchi, no banjara, no cowie shells and hair falls. No awesome head scarves and hair things. This would be okay?

Sounds great! I often wear a big skirt when I perform 9/8 and sometimes wear a vest-like piece over a coin bra.

Now to speak more to costuming choice, specifically vintage oriental vs ATS. I think one of the things that separates "vintage oriental" (aka "American Cabaret") costuming from ATS costuming is, essentially the bling. Here's an example:

My very first bedlah was covered completely in big, bright-finished gold coins, with a bit of trim around the edges; not a sequin or rhinestone in sight. The bright finish on the coins made the ensemble kinda bling-y looking. Jewelry was also in a bright gold finish. Compare that to the dull* metallic finishes of the coins used in most ATS costuming and kuchi jewelry. (*note: "dull" does not equal bad)

With my bright-gold coin bedlah, I wore a panel shirt of a very colorful fabric containing gold thread; sheer harem pants in a very light tone of one of the colors in the fabric finished off the ensemble. Compare that to 25-yard black ATS skirts and gigantic pantaloons (oooo . . . satin ones in jewel tones -- delicious!)

Later on, I purchased what I call a "tribarette"-style coin bedlah (kinda like Ansuya-style) with tons of flat ribbon trim, shiney gold and copper coins (on individual chains), and some kuchi-like small decorative pieces -- not to mention a few cool buttons and amber rhinesones (real glass, not plastic). This bedlah was very intricately decorated; the more I looked at it, the more impressed I was with it and the more I loved it! It was a perfect replacement -- better than a straight replacement -- for my original all-coin costume; it seemed to fit with both "big skirt" and "slim skirt" costuming options. Depending upon the look I wanted, I could accessorize with bling-y jewelry or more "ethnic" pieces.

I wore this bedlah with such diverse costuming pieces as 1) a slim-fit black confetti-dot skirt (no slits); 2) a 2-panel black circle skirt with gold tissue lame trim at the bottom (two slits) plus black harem pants; 3) a modified "Turkish coat" with full-length jazz-legged black dance pants (for some performances, I've used the bra only from the set and used a hip scarf instead of the belt). If I was dancing to Egyptian orchestral music, I would not wear this bedlah, but I might use it for a show that featured "heavier," or traditional instrumentation in the music.

Music, again. I guess it really does drive our dance choices . . . from movement selection to costuming.

Happy creating!

Deborah

Originally Posted by laura 2

On behalf of all teachers, we really wish there were more students like you in our lives!

Can't agree more!

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Sounds great! I often wear a big skirt when I perform 9/8 and sometimes wear a vest-like piece over a coin bra.

Now to speak more to costuming choice, specifically vintage oriental vs ATS. I think one of the things that separates "vintage oriental" (aka "American Cabaret") costuming from ATS costuming is, essentially the bling. Here's an example:

My very first bedlah was covered completely in big, bright-finished gold coins, with a bit of trim around the edges; not a sequin or rhinestone in sight. The bright finish on the coins made the ensemble kinda bling-y looking. Jewelry was also in a bright gold finish. Compare that to the dull* metallic finishes of the coins used in most ATS costuming and kuchi jewelry. (*note: "dull" does not equal bad)

With my bright-gold coin bedlah, I wore a panel shirt of a very colorful fabric containing gold thread; sheer harem pants in a very light tone of one of the colors in the fabric finished off the ensemble. Compare that to 25-yard black ATS skirts and gigantic pantaloons (oooo . . . satin ones in jewel tones -- delicious!)

Later on, I purchased what I call a "tribarette"-style coin bedlah (kinda like Ansuya-style) with tons of flat ribbon trim, shiney gold and copper coins (on individual chains), and some kuchi-like small decorative pieces -- not to mention a few cool buttons and amber rhinesones (real glass, not plastic). This bedlah was very intricately decorated; the more I looked at it, the more impressed I was with it and the more I loved it! It was a perfect replacement -- better than a straight replacement -- for my original all-coin costume; it seemed to fit with both "big skirt" and "slim skirt" costuming options. Depending upon the look I wanted, I could accessorize with bling-y jewelry or more "ethnic" pieces.

I wore this bedlah with such diverse costuming pieces as 1) a slim-fit black confetti-dot skirt (no slits); 2) a 2-panel black circle skirt with gold tissue lame trim at the bottom (two slits) plus black harem pants; 3) a modified "Turkish coat" with full-length jazz-legged black dance pants (for some performances, I've used the bra only from the set and used a hip scarf instead of the belt). If I was dancing to Egyptian orchestral music, I would not wear this bedlah, but I might use it for a show that featured "heavier," or traditional instrumentation in the music.

Music, again. I guess it really does drive our dance choices . . . from movement selection to costuming.

Happy creating!

Deborah

Oh man, you got me drooling over the mental imagery of this costume. I love tribaret bedlahs. Kind of reminds me of Yasmin sets.

[QUOTE=steffib;505443]I love ATS, and I totally hear you on the costuming, it is flattering, fun and fabulous. I know what you're talking about, and I sympathize.

But, I have to say - no, the choice you describe is not a very good one, and as an educated audience member, chances are that it may take away from the performance for me. As a dancer I feel an obligation to make things "work" in a performance. I.e., I try to match dancing, costume and music for a coherent expression. I try to avoid a strict ATS costume for solo dancing, and I would especially try to avoid it for a saidi dance. Now, that said, there is a solution, and a very good one. I believe that tweaking things a wee bit to follow the good old Vintage Oriental/American Cabaret dance tradition, you will find a great path with lots of choices to express your dance persona. And, hey, given that the ATS costume is really based on the American Cabaret costuming found in the Bay area way back when, there's a lineage there.


[I]Very well said! I am very interested in the "vintage coin costume look" and have just acquired a silver coin bra (real coins) that is coins sewn directly on the bra, finished-off neck and back straps, no vest or choli and no Kuchi charms - just chain fringe with coins that dangle between cups of bra. I bought a coin belt that matches it and it no Kuchi ornaments and no yarn tassels. I LOVE the tribal look, but this is not tribal - it's "retro coin costume" look from 70's that is very hot now and what I like is the versatility. P.S. I also have beaded Turkish style bra/belt sets and some straight out Egyptian bra and belt/lycra skirt ensembles. I try to match my costume to music and venue. And I agree totally that an ATS look, while fabulous, doesn't come across well with Saidi music.

I personally am into all the bling etc. My question to you is however...what type of venue are you perfoming and what does your venue want????

If you're working in a ME restaurant then I would say you need to seriously adjust your music and costuming choice if you want to stay alive. If your venue is festivals or coffee houses you may have more leeway to indulge your personal style.