Thread: didem's floorwork

Another one of those creepy compilations of floorwork by bellydancers. This one features mostly Didem. But is it just me, or does the stuff she's doing make her look like a fish (flouncing and shaking on the floor as she dances)?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq0pGIbyPMo&mode=related&search=[/ame]

I'm a big fan of floorwork when it's done with good taste and grace. Didem's obviously a very flexible girl who can do just about anything with her body that she puts her mind to. Was that Rania in the middle? Hers was more traditional.

Personally, as with any other part of dancing, I prefer to see something "danced" rather than be a demonstration of physical prowess. Otherwise, why bother with the music? Just do a gymnastic routine that shows off one amazing movement after the other!

She does look like a fish I liked Rania's though.

I love floorwork, and Didem did a lovely, controlled turkish drop, but the rest of it was just...oddly floppy. I like when a dancer gets on her knees and articulates, and gets up gracefully, none of which Didem did. All that headbanging/hairflipping....ick.
I agree, Rania's was nice. She shows great isolation in her tummy and is graceful in moving around on the floor. But Didem and the other dancer with long hair in the gold and black are making it look less like bellydance and more like "stripper-meets-interpretive dance."
I wish floorwork were less serious and "I'm so sexy it hurts" expressions. I want happy floorwork! Aren't bruised knees fun?

Originally Posted by trakgrl99

I wish floorwork were less serious and "I'm so sexy it hurts" expressions. I want happy floorwork! Aren't bruised knees fun?

You know, you just gave me a new insight on floorwork expressions. Maybe some of those "I'm so sexy it hurts" expressions are really expressions of pure agony! ..l;,

Heh, do you think that last girl even knows what piece she's dancing to?

contortionist floor-shagging to entra omri. Nice.

Not only that, it is the version by notoriously litigious hossam ramzy! Lets hope he catches up with her!

Z

Honestly a lot of Didem does in those clips we learn in Artemis Mourat's Turkish floorwork classes. BUT- that's not all we learned of course- so we were taught to intersperse those moves with others. Artie always researches and documents carefully- so they are "genuine" and "authentic"- maybe just not "all one usually does."
All but the Rania clips were actually Didem. From her dancing to Maar Dala (the Bollywood song) I'd guess she has NO idea of the lyrics. I've seen another clip of her doing the same thing on another TV show. Any education in the dance of that style of song makes it clear that knowledge of the lyrics is essential.

Turkish dancing has never been graceful to me and if you add a turkish girl doing FLOORWORK you will get the above video. HENCE not graceful. Must of the dancers I see on this board are Egyptian style dancers (not all but most) and floorwork just doesn't go with Egyptian dance so there is less of appreciation for it. I'm not saying you don't like it at all, just that it's not what we like to see.

Egyptian style is all on it's own with it's soft and slow inward movements;where as Turkish, Am Cab. and Lebanese can be seen as similar styles(not the same but similar) with large hip movements, lots of snake arms, sharp drops, turns, and very dramatic movements in general. If you're into the latter movements mentioned than I would feel safe to say that you like floorwork. If you like Egyptian style than you will have less of an appreciation for floorwork.
Was that a total ramble or did you understand what I was trying to say?

But there was floorwork in Egyptian dance before the Egyptian government outlawed it. It was not excluded from the dance in Egypt for aesthetic reasons, and is still legal in the context of shemadan. (Right? Other more knowledgable people will know best)

I really don't care for floorwork at all...regardless of the style. Most people are not completely elegant from start to finish (it takes a lot of strength) and it just looks goofy sometimes.

Unfortunately, I do floorwork when I "have to". I work in a restaurant that requires using some kind of prop during the week. I use a sword and SOMETIMES do floor work. And even then it is usually only going to one knee or traveling on the knees.

[QUOTE=SamiraShuruk;48978]Honestly a lot of Didem does in those clips we learn in Artemis Mourat's Turkish floorwork classes. BUT- that's not all we learned of course- QUOTE]

Does Artemis teach the move at 1:50?

So is this Turkish floorwork? (this is the one were the girl sweeps the floor with her hair at around 8:20)


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajFcFWpC9M[/ame]

Originally Posted by vron

So is this Turkish floorwork? (this is the one were the girl sweeps the floor with her hair at around 8:20)

I looked at the 8:20 mark, and there's a dancer in a blue bedlah on her back in a turkish-drop position. I didn't see any sweeping of the floor with her hair...

The girl at 7:20 is doing some vigorous hair tosses, but since the band seemed to be riffing on an ayoub rhythm, that would be appropriate.

[QUOTE=vron;49019]So is this Turkish floorwork? (this is the one were the girl sweeps the floor with her hair at around 8:20)

These look to be mostly, if not all, Lebanese dancers. I recongize Jihan al Masri, the mysterious orange clad dancer who is my favorite and who's identity (Maya/Dina?) has always been up for debate, and a few others from the Lebanese Cocktail videos I have.

Yep, everyone of those ladies are Lebanese dancers.

I thought doing the splits was offensive to - I know I'm using a general term here - "Middle Eastern audience members" because of the focus is on the crotch in that position. I was told not to do the splits or focus on the groin at all, by my first instructor. What do you all think?

I think the ladies in the first video (excluding Rania) look like they're mopping the floor with thier expensive costumes. That first one won't have a white cossie for long! Then 4th dancer seemed to be purposely grinding her sequins into the stage. How careless! ;) Made me cringe!

Actually, most of it did look fairly vulgar to me, but I'm not well versed in the Turkish or Lebanese style, and I've been taught not to do the splits already, so I'm pre-conditioned I supposed. I think my first instructor was very sensitive about being in Oklahoma (coming from CA) and wanted everything to be really family friendly in a very conservative part of the country. Was she going over board?

The second video is more like the floor work I'm more familiar with and does not seem vulgar for the most part.

Originally Posted by s1dur1_sab1tu

I thought doing the splits was offensive to - I know I'm using a general term here - "Middle Eastern audience members" because of the focus is on the crotch in that position. I was told not to do the splits or focus on the groin at all, by my first instructor. What do you all think?

Never heard of that one, although floorwork in general is probably not too popular with some ME audiences these days, anyway. It's always been my understanding that high kicks revealing the crotch were considered in bad taste by ME audiences.

A lot of those dancers were using upbeat numbers and even drum solos for their floorwork! I think it goes best with slower music, something that allows you to internalize more, especially if you're not using a prop.

I was told not to do the splits or focus on the groin at all, by my first instructor. What do you all think?

I was told the same thing by my instuctor when I began dancing.(refering to floorwork not the splits) She never taught us floor work and I've never sought after anyone to learn either BUT she did say if we wanted to learn it to try to remember to keep your crotch pointed away from the audience. I think that is pretty much common sense though.

[quote=vron;49014]

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

Honestly a lot of Didem does in those clips we learn in Artemis Mourat's Turkish floorwork classes. BUT- that's not all we learned of course- QUOTE]

Does Artemis teach the move at 1:50?

THAT move...uhhhh no. I've never seen it in floor work of any kind of belly dance or Indian dance before.
But, just because I've never seen it (nor do I feel it to be particularly flattering to her as a dancer AND has NOTHING to do with the music) does not mean it is not a "legitimate" move.

by s1dur1_sab1tu

"I thought doing the splits was offensive to - I know I'm using a general term here - "Middle Eastern audience members" because of the focus is on the crotch in that position. I was told not to do the splits or focus on the groin at all, by my first instructor. What do you all think?.......I think my first instructor was very sensitive about being in Oklahoma (coming from CA) and wanted everything to be really family friendly in a very conservative part of the country. Was she going over board?"

Antimony said:

"But there was floorwork in Egyptian dance before the Egyptian government outlawed it. It was not excluded from the dance in Egypt for aesthetic reasons, and is still legal in the context of shemadan"

As far as splits- what Vilia said is completely in align with my experience. Splits on floor OK- hey, even Fifi Abdo used to to them, same with Naima Akef...your crotch is facing the floor, so not a problem.
Not a problem at all with the ME audiences here in the MD/DC area, or up in NYC.
The high kicks or split in the air- that can be more problematic as your crotch is indeed being "presented" to the audience. Honestly many ME are much more scandalized by ballet because of this. The leotard and tutu don't help.

There WAS floorwork in Egyptian dance and to a certain degree in the 80s there still was even though by that point it had been made illagal. It was made illegal in raqs sharki (folkloric still OK) in *public venues*. In private events the big stars in Egypt were still doing some floorwork....some would even push the envelope and do a little in public venues and hope they didn't get caught (these including Fifi Abdo and Mona Said).

Michelle 75 said:

"Egyptian style is all on it's own with it's soft and slow inward movements....If you like Egyptian style than you will have less of an appreciation for floorwork. "

Watching some of my favorite Egyptian dancers I would say this is not always true- Fifi Abdo, Naima Akef, Mona Said, Shoo Shoo Amin- not slow, not soft and not inward. (except for maybe during an Om Kolsoum song)
Take a look at Dina's walk- there's nothing slow, soft or inward about her classic "drunken stumble" walk.
The ones who took to the HUGE stages- they HAD to move big, they had to have BIG shimmies, they had to travel, do BIG hips movements and express and project- otherwise the people in the back would not have been captive audiences.
All of them have at times big moves, sharp downs and lots of drama.

I do agree that Lebanese, Turkish and Americans tend to move around more and Lebanese and Turkish style gravitates towards faster music, more often. But I disagree that all there is to Egyptian is slow, soft and inward.

I LOVE Egyptian style in all it's variety and I very much appreciate good, classy floorwork. It's just hard to come by....I didn't see it in any of those clips.

I personally have never seen floorwork I have liked. It all just looks inappropriate to me and it is no wonder people think dancers are loose with all that undulating and such in a horizontal position. I know it sounds prudish but believe me I am far from being a prude. Just my opinion of course and people are certainly entitled to feel differently. Maybe I'll start a poll on the subject.

I'm no prude either. Floorwork, to me, always looks like, "This is how I look when I'm doin' it!"

here's a different style floorwork: more on the knees and more upright

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttuzmaqsa4Y[/ame]

I've seen good floorwork, the strength and skill is amazing. There is a dancer in Boston who has mastered this, Sabrina.

She favors a slow completely controlled back bed to the floor. It takes ages. Her work is just mind blowing.

I wish I had a clip of her, nothing like any of the above videos'.

I had to laugh out loud when I saw Didem sqirming in a circle on that Bollywood number. Looked like she was having a fit of some kind, and the never ending split rotation was tiresome to watch.

I'm no prude either. Floorwork, to me, always looks like, "This is how I look when I'm doin' it!"

LOL, that's what I was thinking too!

I love floorwork. I wish it were "back in style". It can be kinda sexy. But also very gymnastic, depending.
Nadia Hamdi did the splits during her Shamadan.

I love floor work. I remember seeing a particularly beautiful performance of floor work by Suzanna Del Vecchio at Rakkasah back when I was a beginner-level dancer. It was breathtaking. Michelle, I wish you could have seen it - now THAT was graceful!

The shamadan routine that Nadia Hamdi performs on the video sold by the Aswan Dancers from her tour is also quite lovely.

That said, the first part of the youtube clip where Didem is in the white costume was not to my taste. I'm not a big fan of the cobra crawl (the move where she lies on her back and inches along the floor like an inchworm), and I cringed when she landed from her drop with her crotch pointing at the audience.

I think floor work can be beautiful when the dancer has the strength, flexibility, and muscle control to do the moves fluidly and gracefully. But then, you could say the same of any other flavor of belly dancing, couldn't you?

As for the historical/cultural questions...

It's okay to do the splits down to the floor in Egyptian dance. You can see Fifi do it on the Concert at al Esmailia video, and you can see Nadia Hamdi do it on the video I mentioned above.

Floor work used to be part of Egyptian dance, too, but was banned from public performance in the 1950's after the revolution as part of an effort to clean up the sex dens that nightclubs had become under King Farouk's lax enforcement. As others have noted, it's still allowed when part of a "traditional" dance (shamadan), but only particular moves associated with that traditional dance. It's also still allowed in private party settings - Dandash did a drum solo with some floor work as part of her performance in the opening gala at Ahlan wa Sahlan one year - I think 2003, maybe.

Can I share some examples of floorwork that I really like? These are both Shabnam Pena, she has both grace and athleticism

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5omqcllXTls[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBXmiZ05xq4[/ame]