Thread: Didem so much improved - isn't it "Arabized" style?!

Hi everybody,

I found myself enjoying Turkish Romany dancer Didem's style more and more recently.
This is brand new from yesterday:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFSC7dZ-RDM]YouTube - DIDEM 15 NOVEMBER 2009 TVSHOW[/ame]

All the way through her dance I thought she had improved SO much, her hands and arms are elegant, she is feeling the music more, she does not rush through the dance nor does she need "tricks" any more to catch attention. I liked her dance from beginning to end.
Half way through it I thought - is the reason I like her dance much more than before she "Arabized" it?
I never bought much into the "Turkish bellydance" typology. To me it was Romany dance with some Arab dance elements. or, for some performers, Arab dance "spiced" up to being very raunchy. Many so called "bellydancers" like Asena I would not consider bellydancers at all.
The GOOD Turkish dancers to me were dancing very Arab influenced style anyway (like Tanyeli). Didem had her very own style borrowing from many dancers, and creating her own. But now that (to me) she's improved tremendously I feel she's developed a very Arabian style, too.

What do you guys think? Is there anything left of the "hopping" and wild Turkish style in this performance for you? (I do not think I need to stress more that I MUCH prefer the new style she dances anyway ..l;, but I know that many of you like the wild Turkish way of dancing; Aradia does it really well, and Artemis Murat, too, obviously.)

Didem looks good no matter what she's doing....but I'm actually kinda sad that there isn't a whole lot of "true" Turkish dance out there, done to Turkish music. I liked Didem's quirky old style better, but that's just me!

The thing is, I have not seen her or any other Turkish oriental dancer dance to Turkish original music except for Romany.
Most of the melodies and also drum rhythms they are dancing to is Arabian.. sometimes with Turkish lyrics, for many Arabic classical songs were remade to Turkish versions.. I'd love to see "true" Turkish dance to "trully" Turkish music to, for the sake of variety. What I did not appreciate was Didem or other Turkish dancers butcher Oum Kolsoum or Abdel Wahab songs. But I know many did not mind that :)

Her quirky style was kind of cute, but I could not stand it on certain type of songs, like I just said. it worked well on fusion or fun songs (like Ya Mustafa), or to many drum solos.. but there again I believe it's entirely a matter of taste. Some die for her old style, I am aware of that :)

Originally Posted by dinavienna

What I did not appreciate was Didem or other Turkish dancers butcher Oum Kolsoum or Abdel Wahab songs. But I know many did not mind that :)

I have to admit, her previous interpretation of Oum K was a little bit painful

Then again, I also think there's something to be said for the difference between how a Turkish dancer "hears" the music and how an Egyptian does it. Part of what made Didem appear somewhat quirky or offbeat was the different stylistic background she brought to the table. I don't necessarily think her interpretation was wrong - just rather different.

It's interesting to see how Didem adapts this Egyptianized style to fit her body type, though. I'm built very similarly and always like to see how smaller dancers interpret Egyptian movements. It can be a challenge to make Egyptian dance appear "gooey" on a lithe, athletic frame!

And if you want to see beautiful Turkish dancing, to real Turkish music, dig up some clips of Tulay Karaca. Swoon!

Oh I think I've heard of Tülay Karaca, but I dont think I ve ever seen her dance!! Need to :) she's Romany too, isn't she?

Well yeah definitely the Turkish dancers will hear the music differently, just like American dancers will. I agree you will have to let people bring their own heritage to the dance because that's rather inevitable. There again the people of the Native culture will always scream "that's not how it's done! that's waaaayy off"! I think that's natural and understandable too.

And ya you're right I'm also quite thrilled by how Egyptian movements turn out on her body type. I want her shimmies!!! who said a skinny girl can't shimmy :)

I don't know if you can say much of anyone having a style anymore: Egyptian, Lebanese, Turkish and so on all blend when they are put on stage. I consider myself solely a Turkish dancer but I dance alongside Egyptian style dancers every weekend with no problem. I also dance for Arabs and Turks with no critiques of style from either side. It seems to be just a difference in interpreting the music and the size of movements. Turkish tends to be exaggerated more while Egyptian is small. And Turkish seems to be much more energetic compared to Egyptians. One girl (Egyptian) I dance with says that she lets the energy and excitement of the music get the audience and you don't have to dance at the same level as it, while I will dance at the energy level of the music, if that makes sense.

As for Didem, I think she has improved her dance in general lately, though in this dance she is very Egyptian, not become more Arab perse but making a good combination of tricks (your critique) and walking around for long periods smiling (my critique of Egyptian ;)). Though I guess we can see these as faults and pinnacles of each style I think Egyptians are dependent on their tricks just as much as Turkish though what the tricks are look different, and everyone wants to take a break and walk around smiling in the middle of long sets. I think the names for the styles are just that and nothing more.

Oh with tricks I meant the splits and gymnastics.
I thought partly that was a good idea because the non dance-enthusiast audience had to be kept in a good mood with her weekly performances on the IBO show - but there again from a strictly dance perspective I found those tricks kind of ... distracting.
But I can see what you mean with the long standing around (and lip syncing for modern Egyptian huh? ;) )

She's so much more lyrical during the melodic sections in this clip than I've ever seen her!

She's showcasing her 'signature' super-isolated moves and tricksy bits here and there, but now in sections where it's called for in the music.

You're totally right about her hands and arms being 100% more graceful.

Yes, I can see what you mean, that she's dancing in a much more Arabic style now and yes, those of us who prefer that style are going to enjoy her more dancing this way. Our bias is reflected in our notion that she's 'improved.'

But her old style wasn't really very typical of Turkish, IMO. It was unique to HER only. So it isn't really a Turkish vs. Arabic style question, just a Didem before/after thing.

What's the matter with those guys in the background that they cannot show her respect as a fellow artiste. Mmmm

I always thought Didem was so talented... her isolations and flexibility are to-die-for!

For some reason though, something about her dancing just doesn't hold my attention. I think it has to do with her interpretation of the music and the fact that I don't see "feeling" in her dance (which isn't to say there isn't feeling, I don't think these things are absolute... it just doesn't do much for me).

Unfortunately I'm at work so I can't watch the video right now to comment on it, but I did notice that lately I'd been coming across some videos of her that are more enjoyable to me.

Didem has never really been my cup of tea, but this clip makes me reconsider. I really like it!

ya I've been totally converted by her more recent performances! the funny thing is - while I really did not care for her older performances liking the recent ones I found myself rewatching the old ones and liking them somewhat better too! (although the flaws remain, particularly the arms and hands, and sometimes very bad interpretation of the music.. but it s like her style clicked on me in a way).

I always thought Didem's drum solos were nice, and there is one clip of her doing Roma dance that I like as well, but I found most of the others I have watched to be not what I would expect to see for all the hype. (And I LOVE Turkish dance, but didnt really see much of that in her pieces either, as someone else posted, I think Didem was doing Didem style Turkish dance. . . lol)

But this clip I really enjoyed. Watched it twice even! Stylistic choices aside, I think maybe she getting to a point where her musicality is equal to her technical skill?

OT, but does anyone know how tall Didem is?

She has her own style... I think she's very good!

i really like this video...i just like her in general. it's nice to see her change it up.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

What's the matter with those guys in the background that they cannot show her respect as a fellow artiste. Mmmm

Agreed! What is up with that???? The dark haired guy especially!

wow! i'm a total didem fan no matter what but that was just awesome! i love those spins at around 2:17 or so.
and i, too, wonder how tall she is...totally random lol

didem seldom poses with other people - I suspect it is because she is rather short. Ibo is not tall either I suspect - but also surrounds himself with people about his height. This is rather a guess of mine - if you search for pics by Didem Kinali it is difficult to find her with other people. The few shots with other celebs or occasionally a bride she looks shorter.
But really just guessing.

This is the same video undamaged.
I'm glad you liked it as much as I do!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FImXOe3M9kk]YouTube - Turkish Bellydancer Didem[/ame]

Yep. This isn't her typical dance style, and I agree that her arms have become more graceful (compared to her usual arm positions while doing her famous drum solos.)

I like her old style but seeing this one doesn't make me like her less. Didem is still young and is continually evolving as a dancer. I've seen a thread here before regarding the difference between a young and a mature bellydancer. They say young dancers dance beautifully but usually they don't really "feel" the music, and lack the passion that mature dancers have. I forgot which famous bellydancer quoted a quite similar message...

And I don't know if anyone else noticed this but I think Didem is no longer scary thin. She has put on a little weight which looks so much better than before (like 2 years ago). Or is it just because of her costume?

And by the way, I like her wavy/curly hair.

Originally Posted by Qitarah

And I don't know if anyone else noticed this but I think Didem is no longer scary thin. She has put on a little weight which looks so much better than before (like 2 years ago). Or is it just because of her costume?

Oh, wait! I think it's probably just because the 2nd video looks stretched horizontally. She looks thinner in the first video!

LOL! I just answered my own question. ..l;,

Originally Posted by Qitarah

And I don't know if anyone else noticed this but I think Didem is no longer scary thin. She has put on a little weight which looks so much better than before (like 2 years ago). Or is it just because of her costume?

See, I don't think she was scary-thin anymore than some people might call a voluptuous dancer scary-fat. She was, and still is, built like a healthy young woman in tip-top shape from a rigorous schedule of dancing.

I know the BD world favors an hourglass bod with curves in all the right places, but for some of us, that shape is genetically unattainable. I love watching Didem because she proves that you don't have to fit a misguided stereotype to be a great dancer.

Originally Posted by Qitarah

Oh, wait! I think it's probably just because the 2nd video looks stretched horizontally. She looks thinner in the first video!

LOL! I just answered my own question. ..l;,

....and I'm surprised no department store has applied this logic to the design of their fitting room mirrors! ..l;,

LOL I hate myself in H&M mirrors! I look like a ghost in those thinning mirrors. Does NOT make me wanna buy people!
:)
I believe Didem was clearly pre-teen when she started dancing on the Ibo Show. There are videos of a 13 or 14 year old Didem dancing professionally in Istanbul nightclubs (she dropped out of school at 9 according to her own account, and soon earned money for her family dancing - she also said in an interview she does not speak with her family anymore, and felt exploited at a young age; sad biography).
I believe they said she was 16 when she started dancing. But they did not allow her to talk on the show and to the press for years. It would not be far-fetched to assume it might have been because she was still more of a CHILD, and that would have shown in her way of talking; maybe younger than they had announced her to be (16 may be the legal working age in Turkey, who knows).

So I believe her very skinny figure in older videos was due to her age. She either was younger than they said, or a "late developer" figure wise. I liked her shape and never found her scary (she definitely never had anorexic arms - that is where you see if someone is healthy thin or anorexic - watch if the bones on the ribs show and the arms, they show it the most).
But you simply cannot compare a fully developed young woman in her early 20s with a teen shape-wise..

Originally Posted by dinavienna

LOL I hate myself in H&M mirrors! I look like a ghost in those thinning mirrors. Does NOT make me wanna buy people!
:)
I believe Didem was clearly pre-teen when she started dancing on the Ibo Show. There are videos of a 13 or 14 year old Didem dancing professionally in Istanbul nightclubs (she dropped out of school at 9 according to her own account, and soon earned money for her family dancing - she also said in an interview she does not speak with her family anymore, and felt exploited at a young age; sad biography).
I believe they said she was 16 when she started dancing. But they did not allow her to talk on the show and to the press for years. It would not be far-fetched to assume it might have been because she was still more of a CHILD, and that would have shown in her way of talking; maybe younger than they had announced her to be (16 may be the legal working age in Turkey, who knows).

So I believe her very skinny figure in older videos was due to her age. She either was younger than they said, or a "late developer" figure wise. I liked her shape and never found her scary (she definitely never had anorexic arms - that is where you see if someone is healthy thin or anorexic - watch if the bones on the ribs show and the arms, they show it the most).
But you simply cannot compare a fully developed young woman in her early 20s with a teen shape-wise..

True, she looked very young in those videos with the body of a teenager to match. Thanks for the info. She had been a mystery for the audiences for a long time. Some people even thought she was speech impaired because Ibo doesn't let her talk on the show. Although for me, I thought she looked perfectly normal... and she was!

I also started dancing when I was a teenager and didn't have much of a hip, around 34" at the widest part. Now I see why Didem looked so slender in the past.

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

See, I don't think she was scary-thin anymore than some people might call a voluptuous dancer scary-fat. She was, and still is, built like a healthy young woman in tip-top shape from a rigorous schedule of dancing.

I know the BD world favors an hourglass bod with curves in all the right places, but for some of us, that shape is genetically unattainable. I love watching Didem because she proves that you don't have to fit a misguided stereotype to be a great dancer.

Sorry for the inappropriate term. I used to watch her videos on youtube, and I just recently realized that some of those are disproportionately stretched, making her look thinner than she actually is!

Originally Posted by Qitarah

Sorry for the inappropriate term. I used to watch her videos on youtube, and I just recently realized that some of those are disproportionately stretched, making her look thinner than she actually is!

Nah, don't worry about it! Just a soapbox topic for me. People don't believe that I eat until they watch me devour a sloppy plate of wings - then they're usually sorry they asked

haha most skinny girls are the worst carnivores ;) (including myself absolutely - I'd have nice grilled meat even without side dishes almost anytime :) )