Thread: Guedra

I have a wonderful teacher who is teaching me this trance dance. She has asked me to perform it with her at an upcomming show but I would love to see clips and photos of costuming from the world wide resource that is BHUZ.

Please post what you've got I'll be ever so grateful.

SF/BA MECDA Hosts MOROCCO - Workshops & Showcase - Feb. 9 - 10 Scroll down for a picture of Morocco in costume. She might have the dance on one of her videos: you could email her and ask.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJKvi2kUAIQ]YouTube - ‫رقصة الكدرة‬‎[/ame]

Morocco's Riverside performance tape has a staged guedra - it is hard to see details, though: the shots are full-stage, and it is a bit dark.

Thanks for the resources, has anyone ever seen the head pieces for sale anywhere?

I seen someone do it wearing like fake African hair dreads wig, that I thought look horrible. Since the person was white.

Probably not on line but Booby Farrah's "Rare Glimpses" is a real treat. It has a 1950s clip of Guerda taken by National Geographic (just ignore the commentary ) and also a 1975 performance by Jajouka to Bobby's choreography. (The same video also has some interesting footage of Lebanese Bedouins - Mum, Dad and three daughters - dancing)

Originally Posted by _Tanya_

Thanks for the resources, has anyone ever seen the head pieces for sale anywhere?

The dancer Meira in Colorado used to sell the headpieces in the past. I think she made them herself, and Morocco recommended her as a vendor. I bought one, and was very happy with it. I don't know whether she still sells them, though. Here's her web site: home.htm

Originally Posted by toria_dances

I seen someone do it wearing like fake African hair dreads wig, that I thought look horrible. Since the person was white.

Oh dear I must remember that next time I wear dreads, that, as a white woman, I look horrible. In a theatrical representation of a Ghawazee I wore them..we all of us and 3 of us blondes wanted to look a little more "authentic". Did we commit a crime? As a white woman with very curly hair, I very much envy black girls able to straighten their hair successfully.

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I am not quite sure wether I am hurt or angry or misconstuing what you say,Toria?..c::

Ibrahim Farrah's "Rare Glimpses" has two beautiful guedras. If interested you can contact Phaedra: Phaedra@Phaedradance.com

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Oh dear I must remember that next time I wear dreads, that, as a white woman, I look horrible. In a theatrical representation of a Ghawazee I wore them..we all of us and 3 of us blondes wanted to look a little more "authentic". Did we commit a crime?

I don't think you committed a crime - but the ghawazee don't wear dreads!! - and they are pretty "white" - more like Greeks than Jamaicans.

Originally Posted by Amar

Ibrahim Farrah's "Rare Glimpses" has two beautiful guedras.

Ive seen that video. I like the one in the doucmentary footage segment but I dont like the one bobby choreographed because his choreographed one doesnt look like actual guedra.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Oh dear I must remember that next time I wear dreads, that, as a white woman, I look horrible. In a theatrical representation of a Ghawazee I wore them..we all of us and 3 of us blondes wanted to look a little more "authentic". Did we commit a crime? As a white woman with very curly hair, I very much envy black girls able to straighten their hair successfully.

[IMG][/IMG]


I am not quite sure wether I am hurt or angry or misconstuing what you say,Toria?..c::

I didn't say white people look horrible in dreads, please reread my post. What was horrible was that the wig was of Afro hair dreads. kinda like this wig:

[QUOTE=lizajuk;563840]I very much envy black girls able to straighten their hair successfully.

QUOTE]

I would rethink the word successfully, but all you need is a relaxer. Black girls use a chemical on the hair to release the curl, which breakdowns and hurts the hair overtime. but its a white invention white people have used the same chemical to straighten their hair long before we did.

Originally Posted by kashmir

I don't think you committed a crime - but the ghawazee don't wear dreads!! - and they are pretty "white" - more like Greeks than Jamaicans.

really? cause when you say Ghawazee I think African. Are you sure the Ghawazee's didn't take a detour through Jamaica?.p::

Originally Posted by toria_dances

really? cause when you say Ghawazee I think African. Are you sure the Ghawazee's didn't take a detour through Jamaica?.p::

Last I knew Africans don't have dreads - hair's too short. ..g.:

And although Egypt is in Africa - it's people are mostly North African/Berber (who are closer to Southen Eurpeans genetically rather than West African) with a bit of Asian and more recently European. What's more the ghawazee are Sinti - which makes them Asian not African in origin.

BanatMazin.jpg khariya.JPG

Originally Posted by kashmir

I don't think you committed a crime - but the ghawazee don't wear dreads!! - and they are pretty "white" - more like Greeks than Jamaicans.

Oh yes well we could not recreate the real "plaits"..it just was too expensive so we went next best. Thanks for that..! If you think we got it sooo wrong, I applogize, it was not through ignorance but through cost ramifications.It was after alla theatrical representation. A bit of theatre licence. We did out best to represent these dancers and I am sorry we don't quite make it for you.... BUT I was trying to use the example for people to decide wether or not I looked so horrible in dreads. If you wish to turn my intent on its' head so be it....
My real point is that the girl looked horrible because she was ... er....white...er... Had I said that a black girl looked horrible with blonde hair...what would I be accused of? I have seen blonde girls with dreads, pale faced girls with afro girls who abounded in the 60s and 70s. The look may be unusual, incongruous. How much better to say she looked that not horrible. I say you can dress you hair as you wish and if I ,like many girls of African origins try to change our style and go straight, we may surprise but would you tell us we are horrible When I straighten my hair my friends comment that " I don't look like me". They may think I look horrible, they have more manners and sensitivity to say so.

Originally Posted by toria_dances

I seen someone do it wearing like fake African hair dreads wig, that I thought look horrible. Since the person was white.

If you think that is clear that the thread was just saying the dreads were horrible then I think YOU need to reread it.

[quote=toria_dances;564237]

Originally Posted by lizajuk

I very much envy black girls able to straighten their hair successfully.

QUOTE]

I would rethink the word successfully, but all you need is a relaxer. Black girls use a chemical on the hair to release the curl, which breakdowns and hurts the hair overtime. but its a white invention white people have used the same chemical to straighten their hair long before we did.

And white women have spent many a fourtune curling their hair!..g.:

Which is why I decide to NOT straighten my hair with either chemicals or heat as my genes dictated my curly hair and I am doing enough damage with bleaching it! And I'd be stretching the bacnk balance far to far. What you see on the profile is my curls all natural and a dan nuisance to keep looking tidy!
But if we curl/straighten/dye,it's our choice and God bless the hairdresser and chemist who gave us CHOICE!

Originally Posted by kashmir

Last I knew Africans don't have dreads - hair's too short. ..g.:

And although Egypt is in Africa - it's people are mostly North African/Berber (who are closer to Southen Eurpeans genetically rather than West African) with a bit of Asian and more recently European. What's more the ghawazee are Sinti - which makes them Asian not African in origin.

Attachment 13394 Attachment 13395

Reminds me of a fuss made Liz Taylor was chosen to play Cleopatra...oh it should be a black actress because Cleo was African...er no..she was Greek!

But hey why not it's theatre...if a white guy can play Othello, then let's see Hailee Berry (surely the most fascinatingly beautiful woman) play Cleo!

Originally Posted by kashmir

What's more the ghawazee are Sinti - which makes them Asian not African in origin.

Minor correction (to an important point) - the ghawazee are Domari people. They're neither Sinti nor Roma, and it is believed that came from an earlier migration wave.

Originally Posted by kashmir

Last I knew Africans don't have dreads - hair's too short. ..g.:


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I can't believe you just said that..... I hope that grin was a joke yet?

Originally Posted by lizajuk

If you think that is clear that the thread was just saying the dreads were horrible then I think YOU need to reread it.

I guess my writing skill are bad cause your still not getting what I'm saying. It was not the dreads that looked horrible per say, it was the fact the the wig was of African hair. It looked like one of those rasta wigs you get at the costume store,it was the texture of the wig that was offensives. It kinda stuck me in the same vein as black face.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Oh yes well we could not recreate the real "plaits"..it just was too expensive so we went next best. Thanks for that..! If you think we got it sooo wrong, I applogize, it was not through ignorance but through cost ramifications.It was after alla theatrical representation. A bit of theatre licence. We did out best to represent these dancers and I am sorry we don't quite make it for you.... BUT I was trying to use the example for people to decide wether or not I looked so horrible in dreads. If you wish to turn my intent on its' head so be it....
My real point is that the girl looked horrible because she was ... er....white...er... Had I said that a black girl looked horrible with blonde hair...what would I be accused of? I have seen blonde girls with dreads, pale faced girls with afro girls who abounded in the 60s and 70s. The look may be unusual, incongruous. How much better to say she looked that not horrible. I say you can dress you hair as you wish and if I ,like many girls of African origins try to change our style and go straight, we may surprise but would you tell us we are horrible When I straighten my hair my friends comment that " I don't look like me". They may think I look horrible, they have more manners and sensitivity to say so.

OMIGOD.w.: All the conclusions you jump to from my one sentence post is mind boggling. Let me try to be clear, my post was in reference to th original topic which was "costuming for Guedra". Not about what people where in their every day lives or even what people where while doing Ghawazee dancing. This is about Guedra costuming isn't that what the OP asked about???..c:: My point was that in Guedra costuming dont go over board to the point where you are costumes as a certain race. It looked horrible to me cause the performer looked like she was not wearing a Guedra costume but rather costuming her self as a Black Guedra. I just think dress up as another race is going to far. To be clear I couldn't careless how people style there hair, my comment strictly pertain to the threads topic which is Costuming for Guedra

I dont know whether it is totally true or not, but dancers in the past were known for sewing coins into their plaits as a form of storage and decoration.

This practice was supposed to be common right across North Africa from the Ghawazee to Ouled Nail.

Leila Haddad has Plaits and she is from Djerba.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FsVLrRYdXY]YouTube - Leila Haddad Oriental Dance[/ame]

Plaits was also a practical solution for women who travelled alot and is/was a common practice in North Africa.

I am sure someone like Morroco would know more about this.

Originally Posted by toria_dances

OMIGOD.w.: All the conclusions you jump to from my one sentence post is mind boggling. Let me try to be clear, my post was in reference to th original topic which was "costuming for Guedra". Not about what people where in their every day lives or even what people where while doing Ghawazee dancing. This is about Guedra costuming isn't that what the OP asked about???..c:: My point was that in Guedra costuming dont go over board to the point where you are costumes as a certain race. It looked horrible to me cause the performer looked like she was not wearing a Guedra costume but rather costuming her self as a Black Guedra. I just think dress up as another race is going to far. To be clear I couldn't careless how people style there hair, my comment strictly pertain to the threads topic which is Costuming for Guedra

Now you relly have lost me, Toria...dressing up in the costume of another race is wrong!!!
Is there a difference in the costuming of a darker skinned Moroccan girl dancing the Guedra to what a lighter skinned girl might?
I gather you are saying that because this girl donned a wig of African hair to portray an African dance, she was somehow wrong to do it . It was as bad as blacking her face in some kind of minstrel show.

You're right I do have a problem trying to understand what you are getting at!

I know a dancer here who has been a member of an African dance troupe and been the only white member. She is somewhat of an expert on , I believe, West (?)African dance and teaches non-Western dance in an academic situation. Unusual yes...wrong? I don't think so. She didn't black her face of course nor her body but she wore the "correct" costuming.
If you are concerned that we should always wear race appropriate costming, what are we all doing here?..c::

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Now you relly have lost me, Toria...dressing up in the costume of another race is wrong!!!
Is there a difference in the costuming of a darker skinned Moroccan girl dancing the Guedra to what a lighter skinned girl might?

Costuming no, appearance yes. A black Guedra will have African hair, a white Guedra will have Caucasian hair. So if you are dressing up like a Guedra there is no need to put on a wig of African textured hair. (not to mention Guedra's don't has dreads..)

I know the exact wigs Toria is talking about, they are ridiculous and definitely in the vein of Halloween costumes only designed to mimic Jamaicans and/or Rastafarians. Not appropriate for a professional level representation of a folk dance, or of any theatrical representation, really! I think wearing plaits or braids as part of a headdress for Middle Eastern or North African dance is totally fine, and is done all the time quite well (over there and over here). If you don't braid your hair for everyday wear (a la the lovely Leila Haddad, swoon!) you can get hair strands of various lengths, colors and textures from beauty supply shops, braid them, and wear them under or attached to head pieces.

I like the way Hahbi'Ru have incorporated hairpieces and braids into their costumes (scroll down for close-ups). I have also seen Morocco's Guedra headpiece close up (in a workshop), and she has braids incorporated right into it and can put it on like a hat. It is lovely and appropriate and respectful. Liz, your headpiece above looks really nice, too.

Originally Posted by Monica

I like the way Hahbi'Ru have incorporated hairpieces and braids into their costumes (scroll down for close-ups). I have also seen Morocco's Guedra headpiece close up (in a workshop), and she has braids incorporated right into it and can put it on like a hat. It is lovely and appropriate and respectful. Liz, your headpiece above looks really nice, too.

I loved everyones hair on the website!

No one seeing me would ever think that I have anything but European ancestry (and they'd be right!). But, I have hair that mightily curls and frizzs and waves in the rain. One day I ran through the rain to rehearsal and a friend (whom I know has an African-American mother)took hold of a hank of my wild hair and asked, "How'd a white girl like you get that brown girl hair?"

Now I still laugh about it. There was neither insult nor compliment implied; it was pretty much a statement and a comment from one friend to another. But, it was done in person, I saw the smile, she heard my laugh, and no one was offended.

I bet if I made a comment like that online or to someone that I didn't know there'd be misunderstandings.