Thread: zills cross-posted from tribe

when do you start your 3's?

123 123 123
RLR RLR RLR (or LRL LRL LRL or LRL RLR LRL etc)
...............D?
D?

Is the doum at the beginning or the end of the three? are you playing the upbeat or down? i hope this makes sense...i'm confusing myself. I tend to play with the Doum at the 3 of 123 so it's at the end...i think that's the downbeat way to play right?
what is correct for ATS?

I was told by Suhaila that I played on the upbeat and she showed me to play on the downbeat so that's what i'm doing now. I'm in an ATS troupe and they seem to play on the upbeat and now i'm all confused. I'm assuming that maybe both methods are correct? argh!!!!,m::

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yw5R10x_-Q]YouTube - Hips and Bellies[/ame]

They are playing on the downbeat right?

If you check the Fat Chance zills DVD, you will find that the accent in ATS is on the downbeat. I.e., one plays and-a-*1*, and-a-*2* (counting), or rlR rlR rlR (talking in R/L), or tkD/tkT (drum hits). One does not accent the upbeat in ATS, i.e., 1-e-and 2-e-and or Rlr Rlr or Dtk/Tkt is not correct in ATS. Of course, playing the upbeat has its place in playing zills, but not in ATS.

Artemis, or her fabulous zills CD, has the ultimate explanation of up- and downbeat, btw: tap your foot along to the music. Downbeat is when your foot goes down, upbeat is when your foot goes up! Yeay for Artemis! (Buy that CD!!!!)

Upbeat refers to a conductor raising the baton to prepare for the downbeat. The downbeat is the first beat of a measure.

So the upbeat is "and-a".

That clip sounds like and-a-One-and-a-Two-and-a-Three, so upbeat.

I can't say what's right for ATS, it probably depends on the song and movement combos?

...

depends on the music, but usually I play &a1, &a2...
I find it strange that there would be a rule like that (ATS) when the music might not fit. But I don't know anything about ATS other than I enjoy watching it.

Originally Posted by SandraDances

.
I find it strange that there would be a rule like that (ATS) when the music might not fit. But I don't know anything about ATS other than I enjoy watching it.

Good old ATS is typically danced to steady music with 2/4/8 beats per measure (there are exceptions - but no 9s, for instance). So, the basic threes with accent on the downbeat works really well. And, given that the movements are aligned with the downbeat, that makes a lot of sense. One wants the zills and the movement to match ;-)

There are some more advanced things for which there was recently a CD published (incl. playing to rhythms that have 6 beats to a measure), but the default is basic threes - which are of course fairly simple, but when one dances group improv, can be plenty complicated ...

Our ITS combos involve zill patterns combined with movement - two movement combos for each zill pattern.

So we only play threes for two combos. And while we tend to stick with 2/4/8 beats, we do have to think about tempo as that can also be a factor when you have multiple zill patterns!

YMMV, of course!

Originally Posted by steffib

Good old ATS is typically danced to steady music with 2/4/8 beats per measure (there are exceptions - but no 9s, for instance). So, the basic threes with accent on the downbeat works really well. And, given that the movements are aligned with the downbeat, that makes a lot of sense. One wants the zills and the movement to match ;-)

There are some more advanced things for which there was recently a CD published (incl. playing to rhythms that have 6 beats to a measure), but the default is basic threes - which are of course fairly simple, but when one dances group improv, can be plenty complicated ...

I'm somewhat LD so I just want to make sure i'm reading things correctly. Dyslexia is a misery with these things ..cr.:

I'm playing 123 and when i'm hitting the 3 it's on the doum or the downbeat. I'm not starting the 1 on the doum or downbeat correct? That would be playing on the upbeat if I start on the doum?

I wish my brain would work. I know what i'm doing in my head but it's difficult to put into words here.

I really appreciate your help.

Originally Posted by lylagus

I'm somewhat LD so I just want to make sure i'm reading things correctly. Dyslexia is a misery with these things ..cr.:

I'm playing 123 and when i'm hitting the 3 it's on the doum or the downbeat.

Yes! Exactly. That's what you're supposed to do in ATS. It works beautifully with the movement - you hit the doum/3 when you do the relevant part of the moves.

You do not start the threes pattern on the 1. If you do that, you will either accent the upbeat or you will play a differently accented variation of threes. Neither one lines up nicely with the ATS moves.

Happy dancing!!!

Well. The Doum would depend on what rhythm the song uses.

For example, let's use beledi: DD tkt D tkt (1 and 2-e-and 3 and-a-4)

Regular 4 count measure/drum/zill (the upbeat is in parenthesis):
(&-a) 1-e-&-a-2-e-&-a-3-e-&-a-4
(t-k) D---D---t-k-t----D---t-k-t
(R-L) R----R-L-R---R-L-R---R-L-R

I think it's easier to leave the counting to the drum and use RLR or expanded counting for the zills. If you use 123 then you will be confused as 123 123 123 123 is actually and-a-ONE_and-a-TWO_and-a-THREE_and-a-FOUR.

Does that help, at least for a beledi pattern?

Originally Posted by lylagus

I'm somewhat LD so I just want to make sure i'm reading things correctly. Dyslexia is a misery with these things ..cr.:

I'm playing 123 and when i'm hitting the 3 it's on the doum or the downbeat. I'm not starting the 1 on the doum or downbeat correct? That would be playing on the upbeat if I start on the doum?

I wish my brain would work. I know what i'm doing in my head but it's difficult to put into words here.

I really appreciate your help.

I know exactly what you're asking/talking about!

When I first started taking private lessons with one of my teachers, I was told I was striking heavier on the 1 instead of the 3. Hitting heavier on the 1 instead of 3 is a pattern, but not one bellydancers use to dance. Basically I learned triplets backwards. Lots of practice is key to break the habit/reprogram yourself.

I play alternating hands, so triplets would be: RLR LRL RLR. But if you lead with one hand (your right for example), then: RLR RLR RLR. So which ever hand plays the 1 also plays the 3 & the 3 is the heavy hit/doum for triplets.

Originally Posted by lylagus

when do you start your 3's?
Is the doum at the beginning or the end of the three?

I'm in an ATS troupe and they seem to play on the upbeat and now i'm all confused. I'm assuming that maybe both methods are correct? argh!!!!,m::

That is not your troupe in the video, right? I would love to see a clip of your troupe playing 3's the way you described. Are you SURE that's what they're doing? yikes -