Thread: Using a headband to balance saidi assaya

What would you think if dancers were using their big headbands to balance the saidi assaya behind it. Like they have headbands on and they put the sticks on just behind it and it's clearly helping them balance it. What would you think?

Is this common?
I'm just wondering, because I noticed somewhere and I didn't really have a reaction, I just wondered who else does this....when I noticed, I felt kind of jipped (sp?) though ..l;, for no good reason I guess....

So, is this common?

Meh. I would prefer to see nothing assisting the balancing act or something less conspicuous.

Totally off topic: "jipped" (actually spelled gipped or gyped) not such a good word...

Originally Posted by Azhia

Meh. I would prefer to see nothing assisting the balancing act or something less conspicuous.

ok so it's not just me!!

Originally Posted by sharifeh

What would you think if dancers were using their big headbands to balance the saidi assaya behind it. Like they have headbands on and they put the sticks on just behind it and it's clearly helping them balance it. What would you think?

If it was obvious that the dancer was a student who was still learning how to balance with confidence and if she was dancing in a situation that's appropriate for student performers such as a hafla, I'd applaud her for making the effort, and I wouldn't mind the help of the headband.

If it was a dancer performing in a professional situation such as a restaurant, I would think that she needs to spend more time perfecting her craft before trying to call herself a professional.

If it was an outdoor performance, I'd be accepting of the headband. The wind can catch the prop and blow it off balance, so aids such as headbands are a good idea in that environment.


Magicians have taught the public to look for the "gimmick" that creates the illusion. When audiences see stuff like headbands, or trays with velcro on the bottom, or swords with notches, they lose respect for the very real skill it takes to do that balancing. Students may need these aids, but professionals should be able to get by without for indoor performances.

Originally Posted by sharifeh

What would you think if dancers were using their big headbands to balance the saidi assaya behind it. Like they have headbands on and they put the sticks on just behind it and it's clearly helping them balance it. What would you think?

If you can't do it without that - don't do it in public. (Reminds me of a very tacky troupe shammadan where not only were the shamamdan stuck to their heads, they where made of plastic and many where listing about 30 degrees - yuk!)

I once saw a performance where the performer had her sword wedged in between a headdress and her ponytail. It was obviously stuck in there.

I was disappointed and amused.

Learn how to do it properly or don't do it. Its part of the mystery and skill. I have used glasses, table candles, sticks, canes and once an old man at a shows cane to dance with, wine bottles, ouzo bottles. If your teacher can't teach you how to do this properly, find another teacher. Sorry kids but this is part and parcel for this art.

I also have a clip of some dancer that has a clip in her hair piece that holds her sword, I was embarrassed for her. Using some string to mark the balance point is commonly used but to use a clip or other stabilizing device is just cheating.

Yeah thats me .....baadrobot..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,

Thanks for your replies ladies. Phew, so I'm not crazy for being a bit weirded out.
No, Shira it was not a student.
(I have a pretty difficult time doing it myself, it's easier for me to balance my sword because my sword is heavier.)
It was ahem a "pro" dance troupe whose owner makes some pretty big claims...

Look at the screenshots I took from the new dvd...












You know I wouldn't mind at all if that guy didn't talk them up the way he does.
Anyway, am I being harsh here? I love Jillina, so this pains me but I saw this and I was like scratching my head...

Thoughts?
What should my reaction be? Because I have never seen this before. If I have, I definitely didn't notice it.

I learned to do this with out any assistance from head gear. If you took any classes from Sahra Saeeda regarding Shamadan dancing you would know that it is up to you to do the balancing. I have seen a few threads here regarding "Notched Swords", "sequined canes", "perfectly"{balanced} swords, or "perfectly balanced" Shamadan.

If you really want to dance like "they did" ( the big girls from Egypt) You learn how to balance period no matter what it is. Thats why there were better dancers than "them" (awalim) because they went to them to learn.
Learn how to balance PERIOD. No excuses.
Andrea
You all have it so easy these days.

^^^^


Good point baadrobot, we are looking for a shortcut to everything in today's society...

Originally Posted by Mahsima

I once saw a performance where the performer had her sword wedged in between a headdress and her ponytail. It was obviously stuck in there.

I was disappointed and amused.

..c::

that is mega tacky!! ..l;,

I think I would definitely be amused at that as well...

I suppose when you have a troupe there is a possibility that one is not as good as the others and needs that extra help (they might be great dancing on stilts or twirling flaming swords instead..g.:) and so you aren't gonna have one with a headband..the whole troupe wear them.
Or the headband is just part of the costume.
It reminds me of watching a tribal group dancing with large sticks and having them jammed in the "folds" of substantial turbans...problem was one girl had trouble removing it..l;,

Originally Posted by lizajuk

I suppose when you have a troupe there is a possibility that one is not as good as the others and needs that extra help (they might be great dancing on stilts or twirling flaming swords instead..g.:) and so you aren't gonna have one with a headband..the whole troupe wear them.
Or the headband is just part of the costume.
It reminds me of watching a tribal group dancing with large sticks and having them jammed in the "folds" of substantial turbans...problem was one girl had trouble removing it..l;,

..l;, @ the bolded

Originally Posted by baadrobot

If you really want to dance like "they did" ( the big girls from Egypt) You learn how to balance period no matter what it is. Thats why there were better dancers than "them" (awalim) because they went to them to learn.
Learn how to balance PERIOD. No excuses.

I've heard conflicting things about balancing canes. Western dancers are big on cane balancing, but I've heard two Egyptian-style dancers of very good reputation (both native Middle Easterners) say that canes should not be used as balancing props. As I think of it, I can't recall seeing any native dancer ever balancing a cane on her head, much less her shoulder or hip. Does anybody know of footage of a major dancer from over there doing that? I'm not as sure about balancing in the male tahtib style of the dance, but it doesn't make much sense to take your hand off your weapon so it seems unlikely.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I've heard conflicting things about balancing canes. Western dancers are big on cane balancing, but I've heard two Egyptian-style dancers of very good reputation (both native Middle Easterners) say that canes should not be used as balancing props. As I think of it, I can't recall seeing any native dancer ever balancing a cane on her head, much less her shoulder or hip. Does anybody know of footage of a major dancer from over there doing that? I'm not as sure about balancing in the male tahtib style of the dance, but it doesn't make much sense to take your hand off your weapon so it seems unlikely.

Denise Enan does a head balance - but I've never seen any other balance. Over all, Egyptians don't overwork the cane (unlike many Western and Lebanese dancers).

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I've heard conflicting things about balancing canes. Western dancers are big on cane balancing, but I've heard two Egyptian-style dancers of very good reputation (both native Middle Easterners) say that canes should not be used as balancing props. As I think of it, I can't recall seeing any native dancer ever balancing a cane on her head, much less her shoulder or hip. Does anybody know of footage of a major dancer from over there doing that? I'm not as sure about balancing in the male tahtib style of the dance, but it doesn't make much sense to take your hand off your weapon so it seems unlikely.

I wil have to look thru my archives. I have one dancer (cheesy as they get) balancing cane (from her boob no less) but I am not sure its not a spoof on american dancers. I think I have one of Lucy balancing tahtib tho. And there might be some footage of some gawazee dancers balancing too from Aisha Alis old vid. It seems like I just read something about Turkish dancers and swords somewhere..... hmmm..... I will fish around in my swiss cheese brain for that one...l;,
Andrea

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hd7_zmimJM]YouTube - Fifi Abdou - Belly Dance[/ame]

I think what Fifi does..swing a substantial cane about as if it were as light as a feather is what most of us expect from an Egyptian belly dancer regarding Raqs Assaya. Of course Khaled Mahmoud kept saying to us in a workshop how it was NOT a woman's dance. Don't suppose anyone told Fifi

Anyway a bot different to what we might see from a Western troupe you're right!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRBnN50HaKQ&feature=PlayList&p=BF053997FAA E77E5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=51"]YouTube- Bellydance superstars 11 - Raks Asaya[/ame]

IIRC, Mohammed Shahin told us that the balancing vs. the non-balancing was a difference between beledi and saidi. I think beledi would use balancing.

I don't get how the headband in the pictures are helping them balance the cane? All I can see is that maybe the band would prevent the cane from rolling forward, but when ever I do cane the issue is not it rolling forward, more of it slipping side to side. I have never seen someone drop the cane by it come forward.

Originally Posted by toria_dances

I don't get how the headband in the pictures are helping them balance the cane? All I can see is that maybe the band would prevent the cane from rolling forward, but when ever I do cane the issue is not it rolling forward, more of it slipping side to side. I have never seen someone drop the cane by it come forward.

Depends on the cane and the shape of the head. We were working on a piece with balancing large, very round, and very smooth tathib sticks, and a lot of the girls (myself VERY MUCH included) had problems with that sucker rolling off the front. I guess our heads were more spherical than others'!

Originally Posted by toria_dances

I don't get how the headband in the pictures are helping them balance the cane? All I can see is that maybe the band would prevent the cane from rolling forward, but when ever I do cane the issue is not it rolling forward, more of it slipping side to side. I have never seen someone drop the cane by it come forward.

Ha! I see what you mean, that makes sense but I always drop the cane forward! ..l;,

Originally Posted by lizajuk

I think what Fifi does..swing a substantial cane about as if it were as light as a feather is what most of us expect from an Egyptian belly dancer regarding Raqs Assaya. Of course Khaled Mahmoud kept saying to us in a workshop how it was NOT a woman's dance. Don't suppose anyone told Fifi

Of course, the one Egyptian dancer I've seen balancing a cane on her chest is... Fifi! In the Dallas workshop DVD. But it seemed pretty clear that she was being tongue in cheek. Plus, she's Fifi and can do whatever she wants

My honest reaction to seeing somebody in Egyptian costuming balancing a cane anywhere is that they don't know what they are doing, headpiece or no But I can completely respect it from somebody in classic American costuming, who is reflecting a different tradition.

Originally Posted by toria_dances

I don't get how the headband in the pictures are helping them balance the cane? All I can see is that maybe the band would prevent the cane from rolling forward, but when ever I do cane the issue is not it rolling forward, more of it slipping side to side. I have never seen someone drop the cane by it come forward.

This! If I ever try to balance a cane, it falls off sideways. I am no good at balancing.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

[Of course Khaled Mahmoud kept saying to us in a workshop how it was NOT a woman's dance. Don't suppose anyone told Fifi

Oh I bet they did - and it made her more determined

Originally Posted by indigostars

IIRC, Mohammed Shahin told us that the balancing vs. the non-balancing was a difference between beledi and saidi. I think beledi would use balancing.

hmmm.. would seem awfully artificial for baladi style to have a cane balanced on the head.. not that it's not possible. Isn't Mohamed Shahin Egyptian, so I bet he knows his part. Just looks odd for me picturing it.

Originally Posted by indigostars

IIRC, Mohammed Shahin told us that the balancing vs. the non-balancing was a difference between beledi and saidi. I think beledi would use balancing.

I've heard this as well.

Also, I'd say Fifi knows it's traditionally a men's dance just by the cut of her costuming, which is more of the men's style.