Thread: Spinoff of share videos of winning competition routines

I was watching the videos on the thread and it ocurred to me I don't know the status of the dancer. What's the threshold?

I'm totally ignorant of today's competition heirarchy. In my day, we had competitions, but the goal was, who can dance live improve to a band? There was no such thing as choreography.

So, I'm watching all these videos of choreography and I'm wondering what is their qualification? Are they advanced? Beginner? Professional? To be Belly Dancer of the Year what does that mean? Can amateurs compete with professionals?

I was surprised at the time lengths on some of the videos. I personally like long shows. But while all the dancers featured won 1st or 2nd place, I watched some to the end and others I wanted to turnoff after the 1st minute or 2-- but I did watch.

I noticed that the ones I watched and enjoyed to the end grabbed my attention in the very beginning and did something spectacular. Not theatrical -that doesn't impress me, but something that made me say -now that's a belly dancer!!

Even if the rest of show was mediocre, I kept waiting to see something special. Sometimes I was rewarded, sometimes not.

I also noticed that some shows that I watched initially and made a favorable impression on me after watching a few times on video I was like -so so.

That says a lot for what first impression and dancing live can do vs. creating a choreo meant to be captured on video.

Me, I prefer the live -in the moment... But is that what the judges are looking for?

I think it depends on the competition, who will each have their own criteria. Belly Dancer of the Universe, Universal category required improvised dancing to a live band, for example. But other competitions (and other categories within a competition) may require choreography to recorded music.

I did notice that one of the competitions was to a live band. That is why, if someone posts a video, I'd like to know the category. I'd hate to judge someone in the beginner/intermediate category on a professional level!

Each competition has its own requirements, but it seems fairly common to have categories that try to sort performers by number of years dancing and performing for pay. If you've been studying for ten years but only performing for money for one, you could conceivably end up in a beginner category, even though that may not be where you really belong. By the same token, if you jumped the gun and started taking paying gigs two weeks into your dance lessons, you could be dancing "professionally" for five years, but deserve to be in a lower bracket than a headliner category.

I wish the competitions would indicate how big each field of contestants is. If you won and only one other dancer competed in your bracket, that could be much less reflective of your quality than if you were the best out of a field of twelve.

Wiggles of the West does tell you the amount of people in a category. We keep a running total of entries and update it as entries come in. We also state the limit of entries for each category, with the category description. Is this what you wanted to know?

Originally Posted by jenee

Wiggles of the West does tell you the amount of people in a category. We keep a running total of entries and update it as entries come in. We also state the limit of entries for each category, with the category description. Is this what you wanted to know?

Yes, and I know some sites do post their full contest results online. Not many YouTube clips have that sort of information, though--especially if the dancer didn't win.

Well as far as the clips posted in the original thread..This is what I would want to know.. If the dancer placed #1 or 2 what was the catergory and how many contestant's competed in the same category????

I would like to know as well. Where is the other thread with the vids already posted. I would love to see some winnig cane dances. (mostly cause I didn't win and just want to see one that went over well with judges)

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

If you've been studying for ten years but only performing for money for one, you could conceivably end up in a beginner category, even though that may not be where you really belong. By the same token, if you jumped the gun and started taking paying gigs two weeks into your dance lessons, you could be dancing "professionally" for five years, but deserve to be in a lower bracket than a headliner category.

From what I have seen (and I admit that it isn't a wide knowledge) they tend to keep the pro's (paid) seperate from the non-pro's. Some catagories overlap I suppose like prop tho.

As for the one that jumped into paid gigs, if you want to be paid like the big girls, you have to play with them as well.

Originally Posted by Linnyg

I would like to know as well. Where is the other thread with the vids already posted. I would love to see some winnig cane dances. (mostly cause I didn't win and just want to see one that went over well with judges)

It's on this forum.

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...-routines.html

As for the one that jumped into paid gigs, if you want to be paid like the big girls, you have to play with them as well.[/QUOTE]


Absolutely!

Originally Posted by Linnyg

As for the one that jumped into paid gigs, if you want to be paid like the big girls, you have to play with them as well.

I understand what you're saying. If you want to dance for money when you're not qualified to do so, then on some level, yes, you deserve to be told you're the tenth-best pro dancer out of a field of ten. On the other hand, it depends on what you want the point of a competition to be. Do you want to reward good dancing while delivering sobering wake-up calls to performers who have overestimated their abilities, or do you want to provide quality critical feedback from multiple experts in the name of professional development? It's certainly the organizer's choice, but if you're going for the latter objective, then it's in your interest to put people in the categories where they truly belong, not where their resumes put them.

I think if we're being completely honest, the majority of "pros" on the market really aren't at the level where their statistics put them, and it's not necessarily because they're trying to inflate their qualifications. A lot of competitions are based on how many years you have been a solo performer for money, but five years of doing a handful of compensated solos a year isn't the same thing as doing five years of steady restaurant work, yet both could end up in the same category. Heaven knows, plenty of teachers have spent years of teaching beginners without equivalent progress on their own development to reflect their seniority as professionals. Short of auditioning/pre-screening contestants, I'm not sure how you level the playing field, though.

I get where you are going but if you jumped into pro work before you were ready, then you probabley are not in a competition for the feedback, you are there for the attention and possibley the win. I don't mind it being sorted out by paid and unpaid. The one I was just in was sorted by years of expereince and then there was a "pro" catagory as well. The years catagory only went as high as I think 4 or 5 years. In another year, although I am not a pro, I would have to enter into the "pro" catagory just because the number of years I have been dancing. Although, after seeing the women in this catagory, I know I don't hold a candle to them. This would be something that I would have to take into account if I wanted to sign up. Not all comp's are for everyone.

Here in Berlin there's a competition in the second year asking to dance with a live band.

Last year a former teacher of mine competed but said they didn't have many different melodical instruments, so she couldn't show a number of things she'd have liked the judges to appreciate in her interpretation...

The criteria varies from competition to competition, even a bit with individual categories for the same competition.

In terms of what it meas to win a title, I think it varies from person to person as to what it means. To me, it is one of those things that I may think "Cool!" but not be overly impressed or interested. I'm not interested in competing myself, and IMO, it really depends on who your competition is to how impressive the win is. A win one year may be easier than in other years, depending on who's competing.

Originally Posted by Linnyg

I get where you are going but if you jumped into pro work before you were ready, then you probabley are not in a competition for the feedback, you are there for the attention and possibley the win.

There are lots of wrong reasons for thinking you're a pro. Some students get pimped out by teachers and sincerely don't realize they aren't as good as they should be. Others live in an area where being "the best" would be equivalent to being "the mediocre" elsewhere.

Of course, others are just out of touch and think they're better than they actually are. My favorites are the ones who manage to caption their YouTube videos in ways that make it look like they won when they merely competed. Not too long ago, I was watching a video of someone (not posted in the thread that spawned this one, BTW) who had labeled it something like, "Dancer X, Grand Champion Performance, Such-And-Such Competition." I'm watching this and thinking, "Seriously? SERIOUSLY? GRAND CHAMPION?" I got so curious, I went to the competition web site, and it turned out they had a category called "Grand Champion." She wasn't the WINNER, only a CONTESTANT in the "Grand Champion" bracket. Nice try, though...

The one I was just in was sorted by years of expereince and then there was a "pro" catagory as well. The years catagory only went as high as I think 4 or 5 years. In another year, although I am not a pro, I would have to enter into the "pro" catagory just because the number of years I have been dancing. Although, after seeing the women in this catagory, I know I don't hold a candle to them. This would be something that I would have to take into account if I wanted to sign up.

That's why I have been hesitant to sign up. I'd be up classed like that, too. I take dance seriously, but it's my hobby, not my job.

I think the important point here is not just that competitions can be flawed in the way they assign contestants to brackets, but that the need for so many of these competitions represents a flaw in our educational system. A lot of dancers go onto the competition circuit not to gain notoriety, but because they sincerely want to improve as performers and want to get an accurate assessment of their skills, but have difficulty getting that information any other way. You shouldn't have to put yourself into a public comparison situation to get senior teachers to give you critical feedback, but it's not cost effective for a lot of students to get multiple judge-caliber teachers to evaluate you otherwise. I wonder why nobody has pitched the idea of packaging an afternoon of mini-privates with senior teachers like a job fair or speed-dating?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I wonder why nobody has pitched the idea of packaging an afternoon of mini-privates with senior teachers like a job fair or speed-dating?

That's a good idea. Probably kinda tricky logistically & $$ but perhaps some brave soul would venture. I think there have been a few like that here & there, but not on much of a scale. I see that some videos are coming out, Cheeky Girls for ex., that have multiple teachers.

If someone did a mini private lesson, I'd sign up (as long as I value the opinions of the dancers on board). That's the main reason I'm interested in competitions; it's definitely a good way to get valuable feedback.

In high school they have a yearly music "competition" called Solo and Ensemble. You can sign up as a soloist or as part of a group. You prepare your piece of music and perform it for a judge who assigns you a 1,2,3,or 4 (1 being the best you can get, 4 being really bad). Anyone can come and watch your performance. You get a little ribbon if you placed with a 1 or 2. So basically you're competing against yourself, not everyone else.

Originally Posted by Linnyg

The one I was just in was sorted by years of expereince and then there was a "pro" catagory as well. The years catagory only went as high as I think 4 or 5 years. In another year, although I am not a pro, I would have to enter into the "pro" catagory just because the number of years I have been dancing. Although, after seeing the women in this catagory, I know I don't hold a candle to them. This would be something that I would have to take into account if I wanted to sign up. Not all comp's are for everyone.

Linny-La Danse Orientale competition has a category called Rising Star which is for any experience over 4 years, that is not Pro...essentially a hobbyist category. We had a Beginner category for up to 2 years of experience and an Intermediate category for 2+ to 4 years of experience. I think you just entered the Prop category this year didn't you? Next year you would be able to enter the Hobbyist category along with the Prop.

Gilana

the video that jewelsdances kindly posted of my competition video, was done to a live band. as azhia said, bduc required 4/4, 6/8 & 9/8 in any surprise order, to a live band playing music we have not heard. this is why my transitions look a bit stilted imo, b/c i was listening to see what was coming next, as its not the traditional flow and tempo/rhythm changes of a traditional show.

also why i came out with veil to 9/8! i was hedging my bets that they'd start with 4/4, so had to do something then ditch it in favor of 9/8 zilling. lol!

as i understand it, bduc universal category is opened to anyone who would like to enter. they have a preliminaries (your own canned music) and finals round. this video was the finals round (their surprise live music)

most other competitions i've done were canned music and opened to anyone so long as they met the age/ experience level of the category.

i'm really glad most competitions now have age categories. what is it they say? don't work with kids or animals, they'll always upstage you! ;) lol!

Originally Posted by Gilana

Linny-La Danse Orientale competition has a category called Rising Star which is for any experience over 4 years, that is not Pro...essentially a hobbyist category. We had a Beginner category for up to 2 years of experience and an Intermediate category for 2+ to 4 years of experience. I think you just entered the Prop category this year didn't you? Next year you would be able to enter the Hobbyist category along with the Prop.

Gilana

Of course you are right. I forgot about the Rising Star Catagory!

ETA: Fun weekend as well!