Thread: Baladi Fusion?

Originally Posted by fairyqueen

I do notice with some Tribal, how the women move and sway together, like a flock of birds, it seems almost...intuitive to me how they can connect. The Baladi, to me, feels more spontaneous and connected from within. Am I making sense?

That tribal look comes from hours and hours of practicing together (after obtaining the technique). That "intuitive" group movement is accessible in any dance style (not just tribal or belly dance) with hard work.

So given the difference - how do you intend to fuse them? Their approaches are pole apart. What do you think that would look like?

Originally Posted by Afrit09

That tribal look comes from hours and hours of practicing together (after obtaining the technique). That "intuitive" group movement is accessible in any dance style (not just tribal or belly dance) with hard work.

So given the difference - how do you intend to fuse them? Their approaches are pole apart. What do you think that would look like?

I'm not sure! I never intended to fuse them. I still have huuuuge amounts to learn first! That's why I was asking if it had been done.I've been studying different forms of dance, mainly Egyptian and Tribal. I've been reading on my own about Baladi,Cabaret, Guedra, Goth and Tribal Fusion, etc.. I've also been looking at video footage here and there, and just thought this off the top of my head. I can see that most responses argue against whether it can even be possible, and I'm feeling that they are probably right, after explaining this to me. Thanks everyone for helping me understand this.

Originally Posted by fairyqueen

I do notice with some Tribal, how the women move and sway together, like a flock of birds, it seems almost...intuitive to me how they can connect. The Baladi, to me, feels more spontaneous and connected from within. Am I making sense?

That makes very much sense to me, and I applaud that you react to this elusive quality of dance. Keep that up, it will make you and your audiences very happy.

Now, the problem is - that in-the-momentness of dancing comes from very different features. In ATS, the intuitiveness and joy comes from dancing together, the attention of the followers is mostly on the leader (but also on the music, because the leader will interpret the music), and the leader will have to work hard and understand the music very well to make that happen. With beledi, it's more of an interaction with the music, a response in the moment to the music. In ATS, the energy and emotion is mostly between the dancers, in beledi, it is the dancer herself and the emotion carried by the music (from what I understand from having taken 2 workshops, so I am not a great authority!).

Well, that's as good as I can describe it right now. Sorry if it is a bit rambly :-/

Originally Posted by steffib

That makes very much sense to me, and I applaud that you react to this elusive quality of dance. Keep that up, it will make you and your audiences very happy.

Now, the problem is - that in-the-momentness of dancing comes from very different features. In ATS, the intuitiveness and joy comes from dancing together, the attention of the followers is mostly on the leader (but also on the music, because the leader will interpret the music), and the leader will have to work hard and understand the music very well to make that happen. With beledi, it's more of an interaction with the music, a response in the moment to the music. In ATS, the energy and emotion is mostly between the dancers, in beledi, it is the dancer herself and the emotion carried by the music (from what I understand from having taken 2 workshops, so I am not a great authority!).

Well, that's as good as I can describe it right now. Sorry if it is a bit rambly :-/

This makes sense more and more as it's explained! And No,,, you are not..g.: rambly!

Originally Posted by Afrit09

The essence of beledi is the simple movement vocabulary (simple, low arms and no backbends for a start) and the strong connection and emotional expression of the music. I cannot see how this would work for group improv at all! Why slaughter a perfectly good dance form? If you like both - study both - and perform them separately.

I don't entirely agree with this 'essence of beledi'. Way back in the days before ATS/ITS, etc. I was in a folkloric (or fakeloric) troupe. We performed many beledi, saidi , fellahin, guedra, etc.etc forms of dance, in the traditional costumes. There was much more than simple, low arms - that was just one arm position, we used many positions and movements of sometimes great layering and complexity. The "simple" forms were what you would see someone in the culture spontaneously doing - and that might be what we'd do for some audience participation.

I'd use the terms "earthy and relevant to the music" not "simple". I'm not bashing your view, just pointing out that all the folkloric-based styles that appear to be in renaissance today, were very sophisticated in performance and interpretation a few decades ago.

unfortunately there are many baladi fusions out there - possibly unintentionally.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jsq1hEr_8s&feature=related]YouTube - Baladi[/ame]

and here is a group dance

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQEEfsaJNvQ&feature=related]YouTube - Muestra Maiada - BaladÃ*[/ame]

actually can't find the one I wanted to show - but IMO baladi is such a specific sub-genre of Egyptian BD, that the minute you change it, or add any other flavour it just totally ceases to be Baladi

Originally Posted by steffib

I don't think that (good) tribal fusion has to be dark by definition - it just that a lot of *bad* fusion is teenage angst gone bad.

But then, the not-here-to-entertain-you attitude isn’t all bad if done (err…somewhat ironically?) in an entertaining manner. Nor is it a strictly American thing (today). See, for instance, this Turkish (I think; her name is Asena) dancer, who has very non-American-Tribal costuming & rather non-American-Tribal choreography, but who definitely has the F-you attitude in spades.

YouTube - Asena Oryantal Show 3

Originally Posted by Juniper

But then, the not-here-to-entertain-you attitude isn’t all bad if done (err…somewhat ironically?) in an entertaining manner. Nor is it a strictly American thing (today). See, for instance, this Turkish (I think; her name is Asena) dancer, who has very non-American-Tribal costuming & rather non-American-Tribal choreography, but who definitely has the F-you attitude in spades.

Oh, yeah, Turkish dancers are notorious for their deadpan facial expression, it is fairly normal for the greats to look bored - it's quite puzzling sometimes to see the awesome movement, and then the expressionless face.

But one has to be careful, those are Turkish dancers performing in that time for a Turkish audience, and that is no way an excuse for the underwhelming tribal fusion dancers who look as if they have bad menstrual cramps. A similar argument would be (and this is a negative example!): 'Just because Egyptian dancers in Egypt wear outrageous costumes, it is OK for American dancers to wear costumes of questionable taste.' It is all about context, about good stagecraft and about knowing one's audience. I am sure that in a club in front of people who connect to a performer feeling deep and ironic, that expression, when done skillfully, is deeply appreciated - but things are different in a bellydance show.

And, not knocking tribal fusion (I studied with Zafira for many years), or its darker side - I recently saw Ashara dance, and even though it's not my cuppa, her Goth/Egyptian fusion was so well done and targetted at her audience, it was beautiful to watch.