Thread: Khaleegy hands

Here is something that really bothers me: I took a Khalleegy workshop a while ago and we had to put our hand on the face/cheek with the middle finger slightly touching the nose and then flipping the hair.
One group of ours dances this routine all the time, but most of the ladies did not take the workshop. So some of them place their two fingers to the nose and the rest of the hand is a fist and they look like they snot on the floor.
I tried to tell my friend, who is their teacher, to make them awear of it, but it doesn't bother her. Another teacher says:"who are we to tell if that's wrong or right, if we don't really know the right way". If I watch videos, nobody looks like they snot on the floor!
I think those ladies are already not happy what I said about them, but I want to know for myself the appropriate way to do it!

I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Is it permission to tell the ladies that they look like they're snotting on the floor because they aren't holding their hands the right way, or?

Frankly for me it always looks a bit like snotting on the floor because that's the only reason we can think of to make that gesture. But in the context of the dance so long as it's all done delicately you just have to own it. I am not snotting, I am holding up my invisible veil!

One of the explanations I got was that this imitates the pearl divers. Many years ago, before the oil and before cultured pearls the people on the Gulf coast used to dive for pearls.

I would use both index AND middle finger for this gesture. And you can really touch the nose.

MEISSOUN

I'm actually having a difficult time picturing this gesture because I haven't seen it before. (It could be a pearl diver thing--pearls are harvested in that area.) I have seen a gesture where the back of the index finger is placed along the opposite side of the nose, but the hand is held flat. This gesture represents a woman pulling the edge of her hijab across her face in modesty. Actually, from the thread title, I thought this was going to be a complaint about how the "jingle your bracelets" sometimes turns into crazy, big, Fosse jazz hands.

In all likelihood, most of what these women are doing in their routine is probably varying degrees of wrong. Having studied with a native teacher from the Gulf, she says that what Western dancers think is authentic Khaleeji is more of a caricature than an accurate representation, and in the better examples, it's still often more of a Westernized fusion than the real thing. She's particularly critical of women who dance to contemporary music in thobes. At least in the area where she's from, thobes are what the grandmothers wear, and they're only for the sedate dancing to the golden oldies.

I have taken workshops on the subject with very different people (also Middle Easterners, including Hassan Khalil who lived in the Gulf) and they all showed this hand-on-nose gesture. So I guess it must be right...

MEISSOUN

Another theory a couple of kuwaiti ladies had(not dance teachers or dance ethnographs)talking a party night in Beirut;
were that the gesture may also be explained by holding a decorated jewellery chain going from the nose piercing to the ear piercing.

I learned the index-finger-on-nose gesture at a workshop (can't remember who was teaching, as it was years ago), and we were told the explanation that it represents holding a veil in front of your face, but there was a little more detail:
In particular, it depicts quickly grabbing the veil to your face when your face is uncovered (you've been hanging out with all women), and a man approaches so you have to cover up in a hurry. Rural women would do this by just slapping the veil toward the face with the entire hand, but citified women want to be more delicate, so they take the index finger and more gracefully direct the veil onto the face.

Don't know if any of this is true or not, but it's what I was told lo these many years ago.

I've been researching this gesture for some time, always asking anyone who might know, and here is what I have been told that it refers to:

1. Cocaine. ..c:: Not taking that one seriously.

2. Pearl divers.... which would be logical for coastal areas, but what about inland?

3. "The flaring nostrils of the desert stallion."

4. A flirtatious gesture like hiding behind a veil.

I lean towards that last one. It's certainly a flirtatious gesture. Whatever it actually means, it's an authentic gesture that several audience members from that area have commented on over the years - e.g. "When we saw you make that gesture, we knew that this was the real thing."

Originally Posted by JeanneLF

I learned the index-finger-on-nose gesture at a workshop (can't remember who was teaching, as it was years ago), and we were told the explanation that it represents holding a veil in front of your face

This is the version I learnt too - and call it blind prejudice but it seem more "right" than the pearl diving gesture - especially since the other gesture - crossing you hands in from of your cleavage - is a stop the pendant smashing yoru teeth gesture. That is, if one is a practical gesture relating to clothing and costume it seems more likely that the other one is. Occam's razor I guess.

I learned the veil explanation as well as 'to stop the hair from getting caught in the nose jewellery during hair tossing'.

Either way......watching from the side, it looks like everyone's picking their noses, lol.

Originally Posted by kashmir

This is the version I learnt too - and call it blind prejudice but it seem more "right" than the pearl diving gesture - especially since the other gesture - crossing you hands in from of your cleavage - is a stop the pendant smashing yoru teeth gesture. That is, if one is a practical gesture relating to clothing and costume it seems more likely that the other one is. Occam's razor I guess.

Yeah, and why would you hold one nostril, as opposed to both, shut with your hand while diving? Plus, don't you need both hands to gather oysters?

I'm not sure why, but Khaleeji seems much more prone to the "telephone game" effect than some of the other styles. (So does Turkish Rom, come to think of it.) Much of the information being passed around seems to have been distorted bit by bit as it spread from dancer to dancer. Maybe the problem is that Western students treat Khaleeji as a monolithic style, when it is actually a family of multiple styles with local variations?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I'm not sure why, but Khaleeji seems much more prone to the "telephone game" effect than some of the other styles. (So does Turkish Rom, come to think of it.) Much of the information being passed around seems to have been distorted bit by bit as it spread from dancer to dancer. Maybe the problem is that Western students treat Khaleeji as a monolithic style, when it is actually a family of multiple styles with local variations?

Excellent point.

I lived in Oman for a bit (not quite the khaleej I guess) and they have a totally different style of dance.

anyway, can someone post some pics or videos of this gesture you speak of? I have no idea what you all are talking about

I was taught by two different teachers to place the index finger on the opposite side side of the nose (crossing the face). The rest of the hand is just flat. No experet here, just what I learned.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I'm not sure why, but Khaleeji seems much more prone to the "telephone game" effect than some of the other styles. (So does Turkish Rom, come to think of it.) Much of the information being passed around seems to have been distorted bit by bit as it spread from dancer to dancer. Maybe the problem is that Western students treat Khaleeji as a monolithic style, when it is actually a family of multiple styles with local variations?

Well said,as always!

This specific gesture has puzzled me for some years and I´ve asked my (egyptian)teachers about it,recieving answers theorizing about pearl diving,veils and flirtation.

Hearing the kuwaiti ladies "nose jewellery"theory seemed more logical for me,
since we are also "holding our necklaces"and "clicking our bracelets" while dancing.
(I don´t teach the style)

You're right... it matters - and it looks awful too!
Maybe you could show her how *nice* and delicate (and un-snotty!) it looks in a good video example?

When I teach that hand placement, I describe it as using the middle pad of the middle finger against the nose, fingers pretty close together in a relaxed way. This looks graceful.

Mahin

Originally Posted by sacrosanct

I lived in Oman for a bit (not quite the khaleej I guess) and they have a totally different style of dance.

anyway, can someone post some pics or videos of this gesture you speak of? I have no idea what you all are talking about

They do it here around 1:45 very briefly.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKKojFJuZfI]YouTube - Khaleegy group dance[/ame]